Cycling UK spokesman invites Richard Madeley on bike ride after being subjected to Partridgesque meltdown on live TV

aegisdesign wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

HighwayCode only mentions priority in a few places and doesn't specify that pedestrians have priority except when crossing a road when a car is trying to turn into it. What does it say about who has priority when a pedestrian crosses a road and would cause a vehicle to have to slow down? How about when a pedestrian crossing is nearby?

That seems a bit vague to me.

Fairly simple. If the HC doesn't say you have to give way then they don't have priority. That's what I meant by there only being quite specific rules that mention priority.

On the other hand there is a general rule that anyone should give way to avoid an incedent. So if a pedestrian steps off a curb, even though they do not have priority, the general rule is you avoid a collision by giving way. Fairly common sense one would hope.

What "giving way" means seems to be open to debate recently.

I think I understand the basic idea of not driving/cycling/walking into stuff and other people, but the vagueness doesn't go away by invoking "common sense" (which these days seems more akin to being a super power).

If a pedestrian crosses a road in front of a vehicle, then ideally the vehicle should give way to the pedestrian, but also, the pedestrian should give way to the vehicle. Who has priority in that instance according to the Highway Code and how does the law interpret that?

Rapha Nadal wrote:

aracer wrote:

mikepridmorewood wrote:

Are we forgetting that every member of British Cycling has 3rd party insurance and some house insurance policies cover you too?

Not some, ALL. At least all that I checked, and I checked a few of the major household insurance providers. The relevant wording was almost identical between all of the different policy documents which leads me to believe it is generic policy and generic wording and so applies to all household insurance policies.

Hence as the vast majority of cyclists have household insurance, the vast majority also have insurance when cycling. In fact there will be a lower proportion of uninsured drivers than uninsured drivers.

DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THIS DRIVEL.

Most home insurance liability cover only protects you against third party injury or death if it occurs within your household boundary. And only if it can be shown that you've been negligent.

If your home insurance liability cover extends to include PERSONAL liability then you will be covered away from the home. And only if it can be shown that you've been negligent.

It's not drivel at all - in fact your comments are the only drivel here, and suggest you haven't checked your own insurance policy document.

All home insurance policies provide personal liability cover, it's a standard part of the cover, and there is no neglience requirement, simply a requirement for liability.

Simply picking the first insurance company which appeared on a google search, this is from the Aviva policy document:

"Occupier’s, personal and employer’s liability (See the important note overleaf) We will cover your legal liability to pay damages and claimants’ costs and expenses for: ● accidental bodily injury or illness; ● accidental loss of or damage to property; happening during the period of insurance in: ● the British Isles; ● the rest of the world, for temporary visits; and arising: ● as occupier (not as owner) of the home and its land; ● in a personal capacity (not as occupier or owner of any building or land); ● as employer of a domestic employee."

You'll find that wording appears almost identically in all household insurance policies. Oh, and in case there is any doubt about who that covers, the following is in the definitions (again a standard definition in all policies):

"You, Your The person (or people) named on your schedule, their domestic partner and members of their family (or families) who are normally living with them and their foster children who live with them."

Did you really think I would be making such claims without having checked?

Though your reply is an example of the level of ignorance over this - it appears that even the majority of cyclists are unaware that they have 3rd party insurance cover through their household insurance.

aracer wrote:

Though your reply is an example of the level of ignorance over this - it appears that even the majority of cyclists are unaware that they have 3rd party insurance cover through their household insurance.

Do the majority of cyclists have household insurance?  Perhaps the majority of middle class cyclists...  Between one fifth and one quarter of all UK households don't have house insurance.

aracer wrote:

Rapha Nadal wrote:

aracer wrote:

mikepridmorewood wrote:

Are we forgetting that every member of British Cycling has 3rd party insurance and some house insurance policies cover you too?

Not some, ALL. At least all that I checked, and I checked a few of the major household insurance providers. The relevant wording was almost identical between all of the different policy documents which leads me to believe it is generic policy and generic wording and so applies to all household insurance policies.

Hence as the vast majority of cyclists have household insurance, the vast majority also have insurance when cycling. In fact there will be a lower proportion of uninsured drivers than uninsured drivers.

DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THIS DRIVEL.

Most home insurance liability cover only protects you against third party injury or death if it occurs within your household boundary. And only if it can be shown that you've been negligent.

If your home insurance liability cover extends to include PERSONAL liability then you will be covered away from the home. And only if it can be shown that you've been negligent.

It's not drivel at all - in fact your comments are the only drivel here, and suggest you haven't checked your own insurance policy document.

All home insurance policies provide personal liability cover, it's a standard part of the cover, and there is no neglience requirement, simply a requirement for liability.

Simply picking the first insurance company which appeared on a google search, this is from the Aviva policy document:

"Occupier’s, personal and employer’s liability (See the important note overleaf) We will cover your legal liability to pay damages and claimants’ costs and expenses for: ● accidental bodily injury or illness; ● accidental loss of or damage to property; happening during the period of insurance in: ● the British Isles; ● the rest of the world, for temporary visits; and arising: ● as occupier (not as owner) of the home and its land; ● in a personal capacity (not as occupier or owner of any building or land); ● as employer of a domestic employee."

You'll find that wording appears almost identically in all household insurance policies. Oh, and in case there is any doubt about who that covers, the following is in the definitions (again a standard definition in all policies):

"You, Your The person (or people) named on your schedule, their domestic partner and members of their family (or families) who are normally living with them and their foster children who live with them."

Did you really think I would be making such claims without having checked?

Though your reply is an example of the level of ignorance over this - it appears that even the majority of cyclists are unaware that they have 3rd party insurance cover through their household insurance.

 

Oh, OK, if we're going down that route then please observe the wording of a bog standard Zurich home wording:

"We cover you or your family for any legal liability you have as occupiers of the home (or as private individuals) to compensate others if, following an accident during the period of insurance, someone dies, is injured, falls ill or has their property damaged.

The most we will pay for any claim (or claims) arising from one cause, including legal costs and expenses agreed by us, is:

• £10,000,000 for an accident to your domestic employees;

• £2,000,000 for an accident to any other person or property.

We will not pay if the liability arises from you or your family:

• owning your home;

• owning or occupying any other premises;

• owning or using vehicles and craft (other than hand- or foot-propelled boats that you or they do not own)."

Now, I'll draw your attention to that last point which, roughly translated, means that if you hit somebody whilst using your vehicle then you ain't covered.  Now, weather a pedal cycle falls under the heading of "vehicle" is wholly insurer depandant.  This liability extends only to the property boundaries. Which then goes on to reinforce my point that not ALL policies have a personal liability extension written into the wording.  But you knew that already, right?

You can rely on Google but I'll rely on 15 years of working in the insurance industry.

sheridan wrote:

Do the majority of cyclists have household insurance?  Perhaps the majority of middle class cyclists...  Between one fifth and one quarter of all UK households don't have house insurance.

It appears that the vast majority of households have household insurance.

Rapha Nadal wrote:

You can rely on Google but I'll rely on 15 years of working in the insurance industry.

On the contrary - I'm relying on my understanding of legal terminology, how legal documents are written and ability to read, whilst your experience of working in the insurance industry doesn't appear to have enabled you to comprehend the wording of policy documents.

Quote:

• owning or using vehicles and craft (other than hand- or foot-propelled boats that you or they do not own)."

Now, I'll draw your attention to that last point which, roughly translated, means that if you hit somebody whilst using your vehicle then you ain't covered.  Now, weather a pedal cycle falls under the heading of "vehicle" is wholly insurer depandant. 

It isn't at all insurer dependent, "vehicle" is a perfectly standard term with a standard definition across all insurers. Though like all well written legal documents (and every single insurance policy document I've ever read) it doesn't rely on your knowledge of the terms used, but provides definitions of the terms used. Hence if you go to the top of the Zurich policy document you'll find the following:

"• Vehicles and craft – any electrically or mechanically powered vehicles, caravans, trailers, watercraft including surfboards, land windsurfing vehicles, hovercraft, aircraft, all-terrain vehicles or quad bikes other than: – domestic gardening equipment; – battery operated golf trolleys; – wheelchairs or similar electric scooters, specifically designed for the disabled or infirm which are not legally required to be licensed for road use; – battery assisted cycles which are not legally required to be licensed for road use; and – models or toys which are battery operated and/or pedestrian controlled"

I note that mechanically propelled means using an engine, hence doesn't include bicycles which are human propelled (and it specifically excludes e-bikes from the definition of "vehicles"). So the use bicycles isn't excluded from that cover. This is also a totally standard exclusion which you will find in all policies, which means that you're not covered under the policy for driving a car.

Quote:

"We cover you or your family for any legal liability you have as occupiers of the home (or as private individuals) to compensate others if, following an accident during the period of insurance, someone dies, is injured, falls ill or has their property damaged."

...

This liability extends only to the property boundaries. Which then goes on to reinforce my point that not ALL policies have a personal liability extension written into the wording.  But you knew that already, right?

Note the "or as private individuals" bit. I don't know where you're getting the idea that the cover is limited to the property boundaries - there is no mention at all of that in the policy wording, and "as private individuals" is the personal liability bit. Which is a standard part of all policies, as I already knew.

Congratulations on proving my point though - Zurich quite clearly provide 3rd party cover for cycling.

Rapha Nadal wrote:

aracer wrote:

Rapha Nadal wrote:

aracer wrote:

mikepridmorewood wrote:

Are we forgetting that every member of British Cycling has 3rd party insurance and some house insurance policies cover you too?

Not some, ALL. At least all that I checked, and I checked a few of the major household insurance providers. The relevant wording was almost identical between all of the different policy documents which leads me to believe it is generic policy and generic wording and so applies to all household insurance policies.

Hence as the vast majority of cyclists have household insurance, the vast majority also have insurance when cycling. In fact there will be a lower proportion of uninsured drivers than uninsured drivers.

DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THIS DRIVEL.

Most home insurance liability cover only protects you against third party injury or death if it occurs within your household boundary. And only if it can be shown that you've been negligent.

If your home insurance liability cover extends to include PERSONAL liability then you will be covered away from the home. And only if it can be shown that you've been negligent.

It's not drivel at all - in fact your comments are the only drivel here, and suggest you haven't checked your own insurance policy document.

All home insurance policies provide personal liability cover, it's a standard part of the cover, and there is no neglience requirement, simply a requirement for liability.

Simply picking the first insurance company which appeared on a google search, this is from the Aviva policy document:

"Occupier’s, personal and employer’s liability (See the important note overleaf) We will cover your legal liability to pay damages and claimants’ costs and expenses for: ● accidental bodily injury or illness; ● accidental loss of or damage to property; happening during the period of insurance in: ● the British Isles; ● the rest of the world, for temporary visits; and arising: ● as occupier (not as owner) of the home and its land; ● in a personal capacity (not as occupier or owner of any building or land); ● as employer of a domestic employee."

You'll find that wording appears almost identically in all household insurance policies. Oh, and in case there is any doubt about who that covers, the following is in the definitions (again a standard definition in all policies):

"You, Your The person (or people) named on your schedule, their domestic partner and members of their family (or families) who are normally living with them and their foster children who live with them."

Did you really think I would be making such claims without having checked?

Though your reply is an example of the level of ignorance over this - it appears that even the majority of cyclists are unaware that they have 3rd party insurance cover through their household insurance.

 

Oh, OK, if we're going down that route then please observe the wording of a bog standard Zurich home wording:

"We cover you or your family for any legal liability you have as occupiers of the home (or as private individuals) to compensate others if, following an accident during the period of insurance, someone dies, is injured, falls ill or has their property damaged.

The most we will pay for any claim (or claims) arising from one cause, including legal costs and expenses agreed by us, is:

• £10,000,000 for an accident to your domestic employees;

• £2,000,000 for an accident to any other person or property.

We will not pay if the liability arises from you or your family:

• owning your home;

• owning or occupying any other premises;

• owning or using vehicles and craft (other than hand- or foot-propelled boats that you or they do not own)."

Now, I'll draw your attention to that last point which, roughly translated, means that if you hit somebody whilst using your vehicle then you ain't covered.  Now, weather a pedal cycle falls under the heading of "vehicle" is wholly insurer depandant.  This liability extends only to the property boundaries. Which then goes on to reinforce my point that not ALL policies have a personal liability extension written into the wording.  But you knew that already, right?

You can rely on Google but I'll rely on 15 years of working in the insurance industry.

Yeah, but reading it the way you are, it is saying that they will cover you if you are shown to be liable whilst in control of a hand or foot propelled boat. Now that seems to be a fairly random thing to cover in my opinion, which suggests the interpretation you are presenting is not accurate. 

Rapha Nadal wrote:

Oh, OK, if we're going down that route then please observe the wording of a bog standard Zurich home wording:

"We cover you or your family for any legal liability you have as occupiers of the home (or as private individuals) to compensate others if, following an accident during the period of insurance, someone dies, is injured, falls ill or has their property damaged.

[...]

• owning or using vehicles and craft (other than hand- or foot-propelled boats that you or they do not own)."

Now, I'll draw your attention to that last point which, roughly translated, means that if you hit somebody whilst using your vehicle then you ain't covered.  Now, weather a pedal cycle falls under the heading of "vehicle" is wholly insurer depandant.

Since you quote "a bog standard Zurich home insurance", perhaps you should have looked to see whether a pedal cycle falls under Zurich's definition of "vehicle". (Hint: It doesn't.)