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Say time has come for government to introduce legislation “which will regulate cycling and these types of businesses”

Nick Freeman, the traffic lawyer who calls himself Mr Loophole, has joined well-known helmet cam cyclist Dave Sherry in calling for the government and police to crack down on delivery cyclists who break the law. The pair says that riders working for Deliveroo are some of the worst offenders and have released one of Sherry’s videos as an example of what they mean.

In August, Sherry - who has been variously described in the media as  a 'cycling vigilante' and 'Britain's most hated cyclist'  took Freeman for a bike ride in London, but the experience didn’t change his view that cyclists should be made to wear helmets and high-vis clothing, with their bikes carrying registration plates.

> 'Mr Loophole' lawyer urges drivers to fight back at helmet camera users

Freeman has returned to these themes, saying that Deliveroo and other businesses that use cyclists to deliver goods have a duty to ensure their riders are properly equipped for the job and know the Highway Code.

“In fact, before they strap one of Deliveroo’s insulated bags to their backs – which in my mind should be reflective and have an identifying number on it – the minimum the riders should undergo is a cycling proficiency test.

“The time has come now for the Government to look at introducing legislation which will regulate cycling and these types of businesses. Whilst Deliveroo will say the riders are self-employed, the company must be responsible for the welfare and safety of those who work on their behalf.

“Likewise, they must assume some responsibility if the riders break the law. Just like their colleagues who ride motorbikes, those on bicycles must be identifiable and therefore accountable. If that was the case, then I’m sure we would see far less lawlessness.”

> West Midlands Police rejects Mr Loophole criticism over "turning a blind eye" to law-breaking cyclists

As well as urging the Government to regulate companies that use cyclists to deliver goods, Freeman and Sherry are also calling on the police to strictly enforce the law.

Sherry said he was in “total agreement” with Freeman on the issue.

“It is crucial that cyclists also follow the letter of the law, and I suspect those who ignore red lights or cycle on footpaths do so because they think they will never be caught. A lack of identification renders them anonymous.

“I’ve filmed Deliveroo riders take terrible risks. Many ride at night without lights and they often ignore red traffic lights. Very few wear reflective clothing. And, in case they are involved in an accident, they should be insured.

“I get incredibly angry when I see drivers illegally using mobile phones. I get equally angry when cyclists break the law. When they do, they are a danger not only to themselves, but also to others.”

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

44 comments

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atgni [430 posts] 6 months ago
4 likes

Odd interpretation of HC 112 on horn use for those so concerned with strict compliance.
Don't see how that warned anyone of danger.

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hawkinspeter [772 posts] 6 months ago
13 likes

Ok. First, let's address the issue of lawlessness on the roads in some kind of logical order, maybe dealing with the most numerous offences first or possibly the offences that lead to the largest number of KSIs?

However, I don't have handy statistics available to me, so I'm gonna assume that speeding motor vehicles is the number one issue possibly followed by mobile phone use in running motorised vehicles. (I'd guess that red-light jumping motorised vehicles might be number three).

So, let's see a crack-down on speeding drivers and when that's all done and dusted, they can move down the list of priorities.

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ktache [562 posts] 6 months ago
10 likes

And start looking at delivery drivers, tipper trucks and HGVs.  Some of the drivers are good.  Many are an absolute liability.  

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Arceye [21 posts] 6 months ago
1 like

Although I personally don't agree with the law enforcing the use of helmets as their possible benefit is unproven. I personally never go out without my helmet, so if the law enforced them, I wouldn't care. 

If the law is going to enforce high vis clothing then the law should also make every car be painted in high vis colours too.  The use of lights negates the need for high vis. 

Maybe, minimum requirements for acceptable lights ( perhaps only allow lights that can be seen clearly at more than 100Meters distance ) , Some of the lights available are of no use and should not be acceptable as lights. Enforce the law on lights usage more strongly.

Cycling on the footways should be only allowed when it is a shared footway, and cyclists using the footway when not allowed should not get away with it.

Cyclist in my opinion should hold 3rd party insurance, I have it via British cycling for £37 per annum. If using the cycle for business usage then Insurance should be mandatory for business usage.

I have suggested in the passed and still stand by the idea of removing every cycle path in the country and forcing all cyclists over 12 years on to the road, as it will force more motorists to be aware of them.

Although I will never condone a cyclist running a red light even a pedestrian crossing red light when there is nobody crossing. If the law is going to clamp down on things like that then every driver should be accountable for them breaking almost EVERY applicable law EVERY time they drive. Speeding, overtaking when it isn't safe or even legal, parkin where illegal, jumping red lights as often as cyclsits, stopping in the cycle box at lights ( the first solid white line is where they should stop)  Need I go on ???.

The cyclist may appear to be taking risks, but it can be assured the cyslist is very aware of what they are doing, with better spacial awarness, and more alert than any driver, don't forget if the cyclist makes a bad error in judgement they DIE!! where the motorist scratches their vehicle.

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Pierre [102 posts] 6 months ago
15 likes
Quote:

Very few wear reflective clothing.

Deliveroo riders in London are required to wear Deliveroo jackets, and sometimes trousers, which are versions of Proviz's Reflect360 jackets - they're more or less entirely reflective.

And those big boxes are silver and turquoise, which makes them pretty visible. I think they may be reflective too, round here.

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Rod Marton [89 posts] 6 months ago
3 likes

I've always assumed the logo on the back of the Deliveroo box is a stylized two-fingered salute.

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hawkinspeter [772 posts] 6 months ago
12 likes

I've just been thinking about the practicalities of identifying any and all cyclists. Obviously we need some kind of mandatory registration, but how do we stop non-registered cyclists from jumping on a bike and destroying the fabric of our society? The only sensible answer is to have mandatory citizen registration of every person in the country - something like a DNA sample and facial picture for every citizen so that all un-licensed cyclists can be tracked and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Also just thought that people's faces can change over time, so maybe we should have a weekly update of everybody's face and hairstyle. It'll be costly and time consuming, but it's the only way we can combat the number one problem in Britain (i.e. cyclists).

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bassjunkieuk [49 posts] 6 months ago
11 likes

Points above aside I think it's just this scumbag looking for publicity, seems a bit f**cking rich someone who has got a name for himself of getting drivers who have no regard for the law off their charges on "technicalities" should then put cyclists up for greater scrutiny! 

 

But then I think his views are quite like that of a lot of drivers "Cyclists should obey the highway code!" but then fail to grasps even the basics themselves.

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Bikebikebike [310 posts] 6 months ago
11 likes

Two pricks spouting shite.  Meh.

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burtthebike [922 posts] 6 months ago
9 likes

One of the first principles of management is to control the big problems first, and if you've solved them, you move on to the little stuff.

Nothing these two say or do convinces me that they have got their priorities right, and the slimy, cynical lawyer is obviously just using this to distract attention from his clients and blame cyclists.

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davel [1490 posts] 6 months ago
11 likes

How do you fix a country where 500 people get KSId per week due to motorised vehicles, but the column inches about going to hell in a handcart pertain to cyclists 'doing what they like'?

That's so fucked up I'm struggling to identify where the problem starts...

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Danger Dicko [285 posts] 6 months ago
7 likes
hawkinspeter wrote:

I've just been thinking about the practicalities of identifying any and all cyclists. Obviously we need some kind of mandatory registration, but how do we stop non-registered cyclists from jumping on a bike and destroying the fabric of our society? The only sensible answer is to have mandatory citizen registration of every person in the country - something like a DNA sample and facial picture for every citizen so that all un-licensed cyclists can be tracked and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Also just thought that people's faces can change over time, so maybe we should have a weekly update of everybody's face and hairstyle. It'll be costly and time consuming, but it's the only way we can combat the number one problem in Britain (i.e. cyclists).

I don't think you're thinking enough about this.

Surely we need all cyclists to wear a special symbol, maybe a star made out of spokes? They should also have to register every day at their local police station and they can only wed other cyclists.

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STiG911 [255 posts] 6 months ago
4 likes

Of course. Far from agreeing that the article might actually be correct, just jump on the 'well, motorists are always jumping lights, hitting people, being aggressive, yada yada, so why should they be held to account' Bullshit Wagon.

The article is correct in that a great deal of Deliveroo cyclists don't have lights, weave all over the road and the pavement, ignore traffic lights and generally think they're entitlted to do so. Every group of road users, be it cars, lorries or cyclists, pedestrians even, has a majority of sensibles, and a minority of utter twats. Deliveroo cyclists are most definitely in the second. 

 

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alansmurphy [586 posts] 6 months ago
0 likes

I think we are missing the point here - with congestion zones, stationary (ery?) traffic and super duper cycle super free super ways his market of scumbags to get off the hook is reducing; he needs to identify cyclists to pay him to absolve their stupidity!

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Simmo72 [650 posts] 6 months ago
13 likes

Common sense would suggest we  focus on the hundreds of thousands of uninsured motor vehicles on the road killing and injuring people and avoiding vehicle license....but then I'm not an immoral scumbag practising law or a blinkered daily mail/express reader.

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StraelGuy [960 posts] 6 months ago
2 likes

You are correct Alan, think of it as 'e' for envelope.

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kraut [141 posts] 6 months ago
3 likes
Arceye wrote:

I have suggested in the passed and still stand by the idea of removing every cycle path in the country and forcing all cyclists over 12 years on to the road, as it will force more motorists to be aware of them.

 

You want my 13 year old daughter to be a rolling speed bump? I'm sure the hit and run drivers will drive so much more carefully.

 

Nope. And learn to spell.

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hawkinspeter [772 posts] 6 months ago
0 likes
guyrwood wrote:
alansmurphy wrote:

I think we are missing the point here - with congestion zones, stationary (ery?) traffic and super duper cycle super free super ways his market of scumbags to get off the hook is reducing; he needs to identify cyclists to pay him to absolve their stupidity!

You are correct Alan, think of it as 'e' for envelope.

I prefer the other version

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I love my bike [202 posts] 6 months ago
4 likes

If Deliveroo riders are such bad offenders, why not simply boycot takeaways that they deliver?

 

That would get a change much quicker than any revision of the law, and cost nothing (though no extra lawyer fees).

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rallen [6 posts] 6 months ago
2 likes

Completely agree with the general tenor of these comments above, as in Freeman and Sherry should concentrate on reducing dangerous car driving...

but...

I'm not surprised that they are calling out Deliveroo riders - in Brighton (which I cycle around daily) they are a complete menace (both the scooter and pushbike varieties) - riding on pavements, riding while using phones, riding through red lights, riding without lights, cutting up in traffic - the full set of 'this is how car drivers and pedestrians come to resent all cyclists' behaviours - which we all suffer from in the end.

To the point where I won't actually use deliveroo (a great idea in principle) because I'm pretty certain that my dinner will be delivered by a reckless idiot. I've tweeted them about this and they respond pretty quickly from head office but clearly their drivers and riders don't give a toss. Probably because they tend to be more male, and younger. than your average cyclist and are strongly financially motivated to go quickly rather than considerately or safely.

So in my view this is the obnoxious sounding off about the differently-obnoxious.

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Ush [932 posts] 6 months ago
2 likes
hawkinspeter wrote:

I've just been thinking about the practicalities of identifying any and all cyclists. Obviously we need some kind of mandatory registration, but how do we stop non-registered cyclists from jumping on a bike and destroying the fabric of our society? The only sensible answer is to have mandatory citizen registration of every person in the country - something like a DNA sample and facial picture for every citizen so that all un-licensed cyclists can be tracked and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Also just thought that people's faces can change over time, so maybe we should have a weekly update of everybody's face and hairstyle. It'll be costly and time consuming, but it's the only way we can combat the number one problem in Britain (i.e. cyclists).

I think that when we cost these measures and apply the appropriate inflation-corrected indices it will become obvious in the cold-light of day to every one that opposes terrorism that the best thing for our big society is to just ban cycling.

Avatar
brooksby [2392 posts] 6 months ago
2 likes
Danger Dicko wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:

I've just been thinking about the practicalities of identifying any and all cyclists. Obviously we need some kind of mandatory registration, but how do we stop non-registered cyclists from jumping on a bike and destroying the fabric of our society? The only sensible answer is to have mandatory citizen registration of every person in the country - something like a DNA sample and facial picture for every citizen so that all un-licensed cyclists can be tracked and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Also just thought that people's faces can change over time, so maybe we should have a weekly update of everybody's face and hairstyle. It'll be costly and time consuming, but it's the only way we can combat the number one problem in Britain (i.e. cyclists).

I don't think you're thinking enough about this.

Surely we need all cyclists to wear a special symbol, maybe a star made out of spokes? They should also have to register every day at their local police station and they can only wed other cyclists.

Yay!  Godwin's law invoked within a few hours of the story being posted!

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gonedownhill [158 posts] 6 months ago
7 likes

Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that deliveroo et al riders are involved in a disproportionate amount of accidents?

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OldRidgeback [2777 posts] 6 months ago
1 like
STiG911 wrote:

Of course. Far from agreeing that the article might actually be correct, just jump on the 'well, motorists are always jumping lights, hitting people, being aggressive, yada yada, so why should they be held to account' Bullshit Wagon.

The article is correct in that a great deal of Deliveroo cyclists don't have lights, weave all over the road and the pavement, ignore traffic lights and generally think they're entitlted to do so. Every group of road users, be it cars, lorries or cyclists, pedestrians even, has a majority of sensibles, and a minority of utter twats. Deliveroo cyclists are most definitely in the second. 

 

Deliveroo riders often seem to ride as if they are on a mission to get from A to B as quickly as possible, whether or not that puts them or others in danger. This applies equally to those on scooters and on bicycles. I saw a Deliveroo rider pedalling hard up my road yesterday evening after dusk but without lights, and that's not the first time either. I was nearly taken out by a nutter Deliveroo rider on a scooter when I was on my motorbike last year as he roared past, well in excess of the speed limit, missing me by just a few cm.

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Ush [932 posts] 6 months ago
5 likes
gonedownhill wrote:

Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that deliveroo et al riders are involved in a disproportionate amount of accidents?

Oh shush now.  You and your facts!

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50kcommute [77 posts] 6 months ago
0 likes

Make commercial riders accountable?...In isolation I don't really see the issue if we do.

I'd suggest the cost of enforcing might likely be greater than the revenue it generates though ..And if the costs get passed on, I don't want to pay an extra 10p for my Gaucho delivery .. that 68 chiraz won't drink itself though. Hmmmmm decisions decisions...

That aside, my loophole should pursue another cause, cantankerous twonk!

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Gourmet Shot [163 posts] 6 months ago
4 likes

I live in a city that has Deliveroo and stayed in a few other areas that also have the service and have to say i've never seen anything particulalry crazy from them at all.  Just kids trying to earn a few quid.

However most buses in my city drive like arrogant cocks and would run you over at the drop of a hat.....so I know where i'd be targetting any safety initiatives.

 

 

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Hootsy [5 posts] 6 months ago
1 like
rallen wrote:

Completely agree with the general tenor of these comments above, as in Freeman and Sherry should concentrate on reducing dangerous car driving...

but...

I'm not surprised that they are calling out Deliveroo riders - in Brighton (which I cycle around daily) they are a complete menace (both the scooter and pushbike varieties) - riding on pavements, riding while using phones, riding through red lights, riding without lights, cutting up in traffic - the full set of 'this is how car drivers and pedestrians come to resent all cyclists' behaviours - which we all suffer from in the end.

To the point where I won't actually use deliveroo (a great idea in principle) because I'm pretty certain that my dinner will be delivered by a reckless idiot. I've tweeted them about this and they respond pretty quickly from head office but clearly their drivers and riders don't give a toss. Probably because they tend to be more male, and younger. than your average cyclist and are strongly financially motivated to go quickly rather than considerately or safely.

So in my view this is the obnoxious sounding off about the differently-obnoxious.

Hmm - I was just about to say that these Deliveroo riders must just be a London problem, because I've been pleasantly suprised that all the ones I see down here have lights (sometimes very small ones, but better than nothing) and seem quite law-abiding. I agree that you do see them on phones quite a bit, which may be foolish, but it's not illegal. Maybe we get a better class of Deliveroo rider in Hove?  3

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ClubSmed [343 posts] 6 months ago
2 likes

Why do cyclists run red lights?
This is a rant heard most often from anti cycling motorists, but why do they do it?
Is it because they are the same bad drivers with the disregard for traffic lights who chance it on amber and put their foot down when in the car (over 80% of cyclists are also drivers)?
Or is it an infrastructure problem that encourages this bad behaviour?
As I cycle around on the roads I stop at red lights and wait for them to change to green, but sometimes they never do. The problem is with minor roads that lead on to main roads where the light sequence is activated by the sensor on top of the traffic lights. In most of these circumstances the sensors are not sensitive enough and will therefor not include a bike into the sequence unless a car pulls up behind it. I have even had this issue when the minor road has a dedicated cycle lane, that is just rediculous! Now I am fortunate enough to do most of my daily commute along canal paths and through parks so do not face this issue often, but I can see how someone who faces this sort of issue all the time would stop taking note of light colour and just proceed with caution.

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brooksby [2392 posts] 6 months ago
3 likes
OldRidgeback wrote:

Deliveroo riders often seem to ride as if they are on a mission to get from A to B as quickly as possible, whether or not that puts them or others in danger.

Erm - isn't that the whole point of any couriering (whether it's important legal stuff or KFC takeout)?

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