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Twitter erupts in mirth and confusion as engineering company brands cycle route entirely blocked by barrier "successful"...

Twitter can be a harsh proving ground for any company - not least for all things cycling - the Niceway Code being a recent example.

So when AG Wilson Engineering posted a picture of what it called another “successful” greenway in Northern Ireland, with a barrier entirely blocking it, the results were, perhaps, predictable.

Perplexed cyclists jumped in to ask how to use the path, which is blocked by a long metal gate, with a chicane barrier to one side.

Chicanes on bike lanes - why are we still building this rubbish? ask frustrated campaigners

The company tweeted: “AG Wilson successfully delivered another greenway project in Railway park Dungannon”.

Many questioned how the greenway constituted a success given the apparent access issues, and say the large barrier and chicane combination make the route inaccessible for those on non-standard bikes including disability bikes, cargo bikes, tandems and tagalongs. 

Some wondered who the scheme was actually designed for, and whether there had been a mistake. It is unclear if AG Wilson is responsible for the gate itself. 

There was sarcasm aplenty.

Before people started to get creative with possible solutions, including developing Danny Mackaskill-level stunt skills.

Something some brave souls suggested they’d try it out, with different approaches.

The over:

The under:

The "here’s how it should be done, kids".

AG Wilson did not immediately respond to request for comment.

22 comments

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giff77 [1263 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

Avatar
Paul_C [499 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
giff77 wrote:

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

 

so the majority have to suffer because of the actions of the few?

Avatar
Beatnik69 [380 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes
giff77 wrote:

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

Like this:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5905818,-5.8558581,3a,75y,220.09h,61.87t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sS4f1vXL5Mhj5DQW-v3UEwQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DS4f1vXL5Mhj5DQW-v3UEwQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D122.94145%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

Avatar
brooksby [2295 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
Paul_C wrote:
giff77 wrote:

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

 

so the majority have to suffer because of the actions of the few?

'Tis the way of the world, I'm afraid...

Avatar
wycombewheeler [1084 posts] 1 year ago
4 likes
brooksby wrote:
Paul_C wrote:
giff77 wrote:

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

 

so the majority have to suffer because of the actions of the few?

'Tis the way of the world, I'm afraid...

No, it's just the way of cycle infrastructure. If I cycle on the motorway where I am not allowed I would expect to get arrested and removed. I would not expect them to erect barriers that prevent me getting my bike onto the motorway.

Avatar
kwi [294 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

I have Bertie Wilsons number in my phone, very tempted to ring him about this.  Though in all honesty it is probably to the spec the council asked him to deliver.

Avatar
climber [81 posts] 1 year ago
3 likes

 

[/quote] I would not expect them to erect barriers that prevent me getting my bike onto the motorway.[/quote]

 

Be good if they did though.

Apply the same logic to the motorways, putting barriers up to stop those that should'nt be there, it'd be brilliant and of course generate swathes of comments from motorists.

Avatar
giff77 [1263 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
Paul_C wrote:
giff77 wrote:

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

 

so the majority have to suffer because of the actions of the few?

Sadly that seems to be the way of it Paul.   As Kwi says, it's probably the council that wanted it done this way and I reckon they're reacting (in the wrong way) to a perceived nuscience. Thanks Beatnik for refreshing my memory   

Avatar
FluffyKittenofT... [1608 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
brooksby wrote:
Paul_C wrote:
giff77 wrote:

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

 

so the majority have to suffer because of the actions of the few?

'Tis the way of the world, I'm afraid...

Why can't they just ban quad-bikes entirely? Anyone caught with one in any context gets a fine. Sure, the law-abding quad-bikers would suffer due to the actions of those who use them inappropriately, but, that's the way of the world, no?

Avatar
brooksby [2295 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
wycombewheeler wrote:
brooksby wrote:
Paul_C wrote:
giff77 wrote:

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

 

so the majority have to suffer because of the actions of the few?

'Tis the way of the world, I'm afraid...

No, it's just the way of cycle infrastructure. If I cycle on the motorway where I am not allowed I would expect to get arrested and removed. I would not expect them to erect barriers that prevent me getting my bike onto the motorway.

I didn't say that it wasn't also stupid and unfair.

Avatar
brooksby [2295 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:
brooksby wrote:
Paul_C wrote:
giff77 wrote:

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

 

so the majority have to suffer because of the actions of the few?

'Tis the way of the world, I'm afraid...

Why can't they just ban quad-bikes entirely? Anyone caught with one in any context gets a fine. Sure, the law-abding quad-bikers would suffer due to the actions of those who use them inappropriately, but, that's the way of the world, no?

I wonder if they're already banned, so this was done because they can't have police or security there 24/7 to enforce it...? Near my home, neighbours complaining about scooters using an access point to our local cycle path led to one of those stupid a-frame barriers being installed. Now, every time I wheel my bike through it bongs off the panels on the barrier- sounds like a temple bell.

And it didn't stop the scooters anyway- I can (just) fit a bike through, and a scooter (just) fits through too - the only thing that would completely stop scooters would completely stop bikes too. I don't know, maybe like some sort of stupid metal five bar gate and chicane arrangement...

Avatar
JeevesBath [184 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

"Successfully delivered" is construction phrse for built on time/to budget. it doesn't mean that they are saying the cycle path is a success.

All the company are saying is they built what they were asked to, on time.

Avatar
ironmancole [344 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

If this was for cars there would be so much fuss caused you'd end up with the mayor and the radio station hanging about to berate the disgrace and inconvenience caused to motorists.

Cycle infrastructure? 

That'll do is the key phrase.

Lack of equailty remains painfully evident.

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Beatnik69 [380 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
kwi wrote:

I have Bertie Wilsons number in my phone, very tempted to ring him about this.  Though in all honesty it is probably to the spec the council asked him to deliver.

 

I was following the discussion on Twitter the other night and AG Wilson said that's what happened. They followed the spec laid down by the council.

Avatar
andyfla [28 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
wycombewheeler wrote:
brooksby wrote:
Paul_C wrote:
giff77 wrote:

Going out on a limb here. While the barrier is not a great idea I would suggest that there are possibly issues with quad bikes or scramblers in the area. Some folk who are more local to Dungannon may bring  some insight to the whole thing. I've not been there for a long time so things may have changed. There's a track my way that has bull traps either side due to locals using quads on it. Regardless of that. I'm sure a better setup could have been put in place to open up the Greenway to all. Can't remember what the access points on the Comber Greenway are like as its been a few years since I last used that one. 

 

so the majority have to suffer because of the actions of the few?

'Tis the way of the world, I'm afraid...

No, it's just the way of cycle infrastructure. If I cycle on the motorway where I am not allowed I would expect to get arrested and removed. I would not expect them to erect barriers that prevent me getting my bike onto the motorway.

Don't you mean they would have to put a barrier to prevent the cars going on there because of the cyclists that are using it ? as after all there aren't any other ways of stopping them are there ?

 

Avatar
kamoshika [217 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
Beatnik69 wrote:
kwi wrote:

I have Bertie Wilsons number in my phone, very tempted to ring him about this.  Though in all honesty it is probably to the spec the council asked him to deliver.

I was following the discussion on Twitter the other night and AG Wilson said that's what happened. They followed the spec laid down by the council.

But surely the contractor should be advising the council on why their spec is wrong, rather than just blindly doing what they're told? I work in web development and if someone asks me to build them something that isn't going to acheive what it's intended to, I'll say so and offer a better alternative. They may well have tried and been told just to get on with waht they were asked for, but in that situation I wouldn't choose to draw attention to it by posting photos on Twitter.

Avatar
mrmo [2093 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
graham_f wrote:

 

But surely the contractor should be advising the council on why their spec is wrong, rather than just blindly doing what they're told? I work in web development and if someone asks me to build them something that isn't going to acheive what it's intended to, I'll say so and offer a better alternative. They may well have tried and been told just to get on with waht they were asked for, but in that situation I wouldn't choose to draw attention to it by posting photos on Twitter.

 

Why should the contractor know? They know how to build things, there is no reason they need to know the why. Most businesses run on fragmentation of duties, everyone knows the bit they need to know and assume that those around them know what they are doing. 

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kamoshika [217 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
mrmo wrote:
graham_f wrote:

But surely the contractor should be advising the council on why their spec is wrong, rather than just blindly doing what they're told? I work in web development and if someone asks me to build them something that isn't going to acheive what it's intended to, I'll say so and offer a better alternative. They may well have tried and been told just to get on with waht they were asked for, but in that situation I wouldn't choose to draw attention to it by posting photos on Twitter.

Why should the contractor know? They know how to build things, there is no reason they need to know the why. Most businesses run on fragmentation of duties, everyone knows the bit they need to know and assume that those around them know what they are doing. 

You don't think it's reasonable that the contractor should have been able to look at the plans for that cycling "facility" and recognise that it wasn't going to be effective?

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Paul_C [499 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
graham_f wrote:

You don't think it's reasonable that the contractor should have been able to look at the plans for that cycling "facility" and recognise that it wasn't going to be effective?

they don't give a fig, they're tendering for the work as they can make a profit and keep their workforce in employment... they're not going to say that's stupid...

Avatar
dcddcd [9 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
graham_f wrote:
mrmo wrote:
graham_f wrote:

But surely the contractor should be advising the council on why their spec is wrong, rather than just blindly doing what they're told? I work in web development and if someone asks me to build them something that isn't going to acheive what it's intended to, I'll say so and offer a better alternative. They may well have tried and been told just to get on with waht they were asked for, but in that situation I wouldn't choose to draw attention to it by posting photos on Twitter.

Why should the contractor know? They know how to build things, there is no reason they need to know the why. Most businesses run on fragmentation of duties, everyone knows the bit they need to know and assume that those around them know what they are doing. 

You don't think it's reasonable that the contractor should have been able to look at the plans for that cycling "facility" and recognise that it wasn't going to be effective?

No.

It's not what they do. They work to specifications supplied, I am sure.

Blame the council for this one.

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Condor flyer [50 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

It's brilliant. Confirms that the UK is maintaining an unassailable lead in the annual "Shitty Cycling Infrastructure of the Year" awards.

 

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_SiD_ [163 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

The path and the gate are old infrastructure and not initially bike related.

The path was created approx 12 years ago. The gate was installed about 10 years ago, apparently a few of the travelling community moved in temporarily and the gate was installed after they had 'moved' on.

The new piece of infrastructure they are trumpeting about is the green tarmac and the the lowered kerb.

Not sure if the gate is being looked at or not.