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TECH NEWS

Team Sky races with disc brakes for the first time

Bernie Eisel Tweets pic of Pinarello Dogma F8 Disk – with Shimano disc brakes – from Eneco Tour

Team Sky’s Bernie Eisel is using a Pinarello Dogma F8 Disk equipped with Shimano disc brakes in the Eneco Tour in Belgium.

We told you yesterday that riders from the Pro Continental Team Roompot were using Isaac bikes fitted with SRAM hydraulic disc brakes in the same race. 

It now looks like Sky has become the first top-level WorldTeam to follow suit.

World cycle sport’s governing body the UCI confirmed back in April that hydraulic disc brakes would make their first appearance in the professional peloton this year under an experimental programme ahead of an anticipated full roll-out in 2017.

Teams could nominate two races in which they’d use disc brakes in August and September of this year.

Pinarello unveiled the Dogma F8 Disk back in May.

The bike is based on the standard Dogma F8 that Team Sky riders use regularly. The new Dogma F8 Disk is said to retain the “main characteristics” of the regular Dogma F8 in terms of the geometry, frame material, stiffness and aerodynamics.

The frame uses Shimano’s new Flat Mount brake calliper system (you can use adapters to make it compatible with other brake systems).

Pinarello has stuck with conventional quick release axles rather than adopting the thru-axles like a handful of other bike brands.

Good news? Bad news? Let us know what you think.

www.pinarello.com/en/bike-2016/road/dogma-f8-disk

Mat has been in cycling media since 1996, on titles including BikeRadar, Total Bike, Total Mountain Bike, What Mountain Bike and Mountain Biking UK, and he has been editor of 220 Triathlon and Cycling Plus. Mat has been road.cc technical editor for over a decade, testing bikes, fettling the latest kit, and trying out the most up-to-the-minute clothing. We send him off around the world to get all the news from launches and shows too. He has won his category in Ironman UK 70.3 and finished on the podium in both marathons he has run. Mat is a Cambridge graduate who did a post-grad in magazine journalism, and he is a winner of the Cycling Media Award for Specialist Online Writer. Now over 50, he's riding road and gravel bikes most days for fun and fitness rather than training for competitions.

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54 comments

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WolfieSmith | 8 years ago
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Disc brakes? Electronic gears? Carbon bars? All I know is the price of traditional cable and brake Campag Super Record is dropping all the time so keep on buying the latest 'evolutions' and I'll be quids in.  4

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Yorkshie Whippet | 8 years ago
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Don't understand the rush for thro axles on road bikes. Surely a better way would to increase the clamping area of the QR and hub on the left side. It works on older mtbs.

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imajez replied to Yorkshie Whippet | 8 years ago
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Yorkshie Whippet wrote:

Don't understand the rush for thro axles on road bikes. Surely a better way would to increase the clamping area of the QR and hub on the left side. It works on older mtbs.

Which didn't have disc brakes, not to mention I've had rear wheels pop out under load because the QRs were simply not up to scratch. IIRC there was a recall on those Cannondales/Shimano QR interface
Anyway quick releases are not in fact quick because of lawyer tabs or more importantly not very accurate, so being replaced by a better idea is a good thing.

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shutuplegz | 8 years ago
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"Good news? Bad news? Let us know what you think."

Well, you did ask!

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fukawitribe | 8 years ago
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I'd like to see thru-axles if they were one of the newer, part-turn devices like the RAT as you'd get something quicker and easier than a QR on the front with the benefits of alignment - and (purely personally) I think they're a nice bit of engineering.

In the racing situation the initial line up of the rotor will take a bit longer, part of which will be technique (e.g. lift the front by the caliper and using your fingers to guide it in) so it's swings and roundabouts I guess. I imagine we'll find out what the teams think in due course, even if potentially diluted by sponsor commitments by some of them. In one way it would perhaps be nice if they did get the OK in racing insofar as allowing manufacturers more resource and incentive to improve with the knock-on benefits for the rest of us - not to mention the outside chance of actually standardising things (although i'll not hold my breath on that). My tuppence worth anyway.

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ciderman_100 replied to fukawitribe | 8 years ago
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fukawitribe wrote:

I'd like to see thru-axles if they were one of the newer, part-turn devices like the RAT as you'd get something quicker and easier than a QR on the front with the benefits of alignment - and (purely personally) I think they're a nice bit of engineering..

I totally agree it gives the through axle that seems to be favourite and the ease of quick release I think it should be the standard as it is a beautiful simple solution to a quick wheel change problem. focus have really thought out the solution. the wait now is for campagnolo to see what solution their partners come up with.

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hampstead_bandit | 8 years ago
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@part_robot

I've been riding a hydraulic disc brake road bike since October last year - my only road bike

I agree somewhat with comments about Q/R and disc brakes.

I've had situations where I've done a lot of heavy braking and I believe the wheels have shifted slightly in the dropouts as I then get small amounts of rotor noise, which vanishes if I stop, loosen the Q/R, shimmy the wheel in the frame / fork and re tighten the Q/R. I've tried different Q/R skewers but it makes little to no difference.

I also get small amount of rotor noise (tinkling) on the front if I sprint really aggressively and honk the bars from side to side.

Otherwise I have been extremely happy with disc brakes on my road bike, for my riding (not a racer) they are a progressive move forward. I would like to see thru-axles front and rear as the next step.

But I come from 20+ years of mountain biking and we've had hydraulic disc brakes for along time (my first hydro discs were in 1995). Other riders who have a road background may have a different opinion on disc brakes.

Regarding weight? My current road bike is exactly 8kg with pedals, exactly the same weight as my previous caliper brake road bike. Both were mid priced (£2,500) bikes.

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part_robot | 8 years ago
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My experience with hydraulic disc roadbikes with QR echo others here; they are fantastic in the rain (I didn't realise how good until I went out on a very wet and windy day with our club recently), but they rub slightly when they are knocked and occasionally when replacing the wheel. Also, if you are unfortunate enough to have a fall expect to spend a couple of minutes tweaking them by sub-millimeter increments. They also add a LOT of weight which isn't ideal.

Overall, a mixed blessing but I think I slightly prefer them to normal callipers. In an ideal world I'd have disc brakes on a winter bike and normal callipers in summer.

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Yorky-M | 8 years ago
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I've ridden with hydra disc all summer. They come into their own on long descents and in wet weather. The improvement is an evolution for the road performance - regardless of looks.
When hitting a hole or stone I've had to stop to adjust my wheel with the disc rubbing several times so do think bolt thru axel is the way forward. Not sure how you get a quick wheel change thou in the pro peloton. Don't know how the mavic neutral service car is going to cope with Giants thru axel, Sky on quick release, Merida developing a larger diameter thru axel. The Uci should have made a ruling to push for some standard...... But no money In that

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Morat | 8 years ago
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and through-axles are meant to make it less likely that the braking forces will pop the front axle downwards out of the drop outs. Whether that's a consideration on road bikes (which presumably will have their front wheels on the ground all the time when braking) I have no idea.

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earth replied to Morat | 8 years ago
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Morat wrote:

and through-axles are meant to make it less likely that the braking forces will pop the front axle downwards out of the drop outs. Whether that's a consideration on road bikes (which presumably will have their front wheels on the ground all the time when braking)...

Tell that to Peter Sagan.

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nortonpdj | 8 years ago
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I'd like to know what Bernie Eisel thinks now he's raced with discs.

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Toro Toro replied to nortonpdj | 8 years ago
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nortonpdj wrote:

I'd like to know what Bernie Eisel thinks now he's raced with discs.

Indeed! And I won't believe a word of what he says about it until he's retired and no longer in the direct or indirect pay of a bike company  3

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Welsh boy replied to nortonpdj | 8 years ago
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Have a look on the Cycling Weekly site then...

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crikey | 8 years ago
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Through axles are rather more to do with the way suspension forks tend to be affected by the one sided effect of disc brakes. They also stiffen up the whole front end which may or not be a help on a road bike with, hopefully, stiff enough forks.

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Carton replied to crikey | 8 years ago
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crikey wrote:

Through axles are rather more to do with the way suspension forks tend to be affected by the one sided effect of disc brakes. They also stiffen up the whole front end which may or not be a help on a road bike with, hopefully, stiff enough forks.

Thru-axles are rather more to do with the way suspension forks (and hubs) tend to be affected by the tyres hitting stuff hard. Their primary raison d'etre vis-a-vis road bikes seems to be derived from the almost accidental finding that they tend to reduce brake rub on mountain bikes.

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Toro Toro | 8 years ago
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Come again? The torque is applied on one side of the axle, which produces a twisting force.

Twisting at the rim isn't the problem, only a symptom.

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joules1975 replied to Toro Toro | 8 years ago
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Toro Toro wrote:

Come again? The torque is applied on one side of the axle, which produces a twisting force.

Twisting at the rim isn't the problem, only a symptom.

Erm, no! The force is being applied to the disc, which although on one side of the hub, is still on the hub, so there is no twist in the wheel as the whole hub is slowed by the braking forces. It is in the fork that the forces are uneven one side to the other. Bolt though spindles help stiffen the fork.

However, bikes survived without bolt thru spindles for ages, and the problem that was found was more to do with the position of the disc caliper resulting in a downward force on the spindle when braking, thus potentially pulling the wheel out of the fork when braking. Bolt thru spindles solve this, but so does turning the dropout forward 45 degrees.

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Toro Toro | 8 years ago
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It's because the disc is on one side of the wheel; trying to stop it produces a twisting force. That stresses both the wheel and the fork as well as, potentially, the axle and QR (hence the fashion for thru-axles instead).

The same twisting force - and resulting stress - doesn't apply to rim-braking, as the callipers press (more-or-less) evenly on both sides.

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kwi replied to Toro Toro | 8 years ago
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Toro Toro wrote:

It's because the disc is on one side of the wheel; trying to stop it produces a twisting force. That stresses both the wheel and the fork as well as, potentially, the axle and QR (hence the fashion for thru-axles instead).

The same twisting force - and resulting stress - doesn't apply to rim-braking, as the callipers press (more-or-less) evenly on both sides.

I think the trend for thru-axles is due to the torque on the axle not any twisting, the disc is stopping the axle, which the spokes come off, so there shouldn't be any twisting at the rim.

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crikey | 8 years ago
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Regardless of the disc/no disc issue, I can't think of anyone other than Stevie Wonder who would consider Pinarellos to be aesthetically pleasing.

Helen Keller's favourite bike...

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Colin Peyresourde replied to crikey | 8 years ago
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crikey wrote:

Regardless of the disc/no disc issue, I can't think of anyone other than Stevie Wonder who would consider Pinarellos to be aesthetically pleasing.

Helen Keller's favourite bike...

Quite. Pinarello just don't do it for me.

As to disc brakes, I have them on my CX. I am happy enough with them, but I think the benefit is marginal, even in the wet, perhaps slightly stronger braking power, but mine aren't hydraulic. The biggest benefit is that by keeping the brake off the rim it's lower maintenance, with less adjustment (popping a wheel in an out is actually easier).

The interesting part is the issue over the service vehicles carrying both rim and disc brake wheels - I don't really care which way the door swings on this innovation.

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Jamminatrix | 8 years ago
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What's the WEIGHT of the bike? We all want to know...  39

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Airzound | 8 years ago
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What spacing are the drop outs, 130, 135 or 140mm?

And presumably STIs as good as their cable ancestors?

Where are the brake fluid reservoirs?

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alansmurphy | 8 years ago
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Bike with no name - I've got the Spesh Diverge as my commuter/winter bike and the discs make perfect sense. Bike gets a lot of comments too about how 'cool' / 'mean' it looks.

I'm so hipster it hurts, unfortunately my beard growing prowess is poor!

Another fun part of disc brakes is watching my clubmates faces as I pile past them downhill and brake so much later than them...

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imajez replied to alansmurphy | 8 years ago
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alansmurphy wrote:

Another fun part of disc brakes is watching my clubmates faces as I pile past them downhill and brake so much later than them...

Don't think turning around to look at your club mates faces is a good idea in those circumstances.  1

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Broady. | 8 years ago
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Beast.

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bikewithnoname | 8 years ago
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MY EYES! I know I'm swimming against the crowd, but discs look stupid on road bikes.

That said it is still it's a 1000% better looking than that Spesh VIAS venge and the new crop of #aeroisugly machines...

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Bob's Bikes | 8 years ago
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I want  38

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spasypaddy | 8 years ago
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how to ruin a good looking bike quickly...

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