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Video: TfL apologises to cyclist after bus driver calls him a “knob” following close pass

Insult thrown shortly after driver had cut in on cyclist – who caught incident on film - on Croydon High Street

Transport for London (TfL) has apologised to a cyclist after a female bus driver called him a “knob,” with the incident recorded on the rider’s helmet camera.

The incident, involving a number 119 bus operated by Metroland, took place on Katharine Street, Croydon, a little after 2pm on Saturday 12th April.

Footage uploaded to YouTube by user 4ChordsNoNet shows that the bus had cut in on him shortly beforehand on Croydon High Street.

Catching up with the bus, he stopped alongside the driver and asked: “Why did you overtake me there?”

The female driver replied: “I could get past you easy.”

“You were that close to me,” said the cyclist as he rode off.

As he did so, the driver shouted after him: “You know when you nearly killed the old bloke at the Swan & Sugar Loaf [a former pub in South Croydon – ed]? You knob.”

On the video, 4ChordsNoNet adds: “She knows that she’s being filmed, she’s in a liveried vehicle, yet she still decides to ‘have a go’ at me.”

In the ‘About’ section of the video’s page on YouTube, he says:

I contacted both TfL and the bus company direct with regard to this incident. The Depot manager came back the same day and confirmed that this standard falls far below what is expected of their drivers and that he would be speaking to the driver in question.

I am happy with this and have edited the video, blurring out the driver's face. The original video is now unlisted and will be deleted when I have heard back from TfL.

That reply from TfL read:

Thank you for your email of 15 April 2014 about a bus driver on route 119. I understand how you must have felt after this experience and appreciate your concern. Please accept my apologies.

The safety of our passengers and other road users is of paramount importance to us. It is essential that London's bus drivers promote a positive image of London Buses, as well as operating their bus safely and competently.

London's bus drivers receive comprehensive training which includes Customer Services and poor driving standards are unacceptable. In the instance you described, it would appear those training were not put into use. I have made Metrobus aware of your complaint and can assure you appropriate action will be taken.

I hope this incident does not change confidence in us and high standard you have always held our service. We work hard to maintain high standards and are confident the vast majority of London bus drivers do an excellent job. Passenger feedback is extremely valuable and I am grateful to you for bringing this to our attention.

In a reply to a comment to the video, 4ChordsNoNet said: “I've emailed the same depot before when I complimented one of their drivers on his exemplary driving, and I believe that they will take this incident seriously.

“I imagine that the depot manager will give them a right royal bollocking.”

Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.

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56 comments

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700c | 9 years ago
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I'm coming round to the idea of helmet cams on bikes, and in some situations, posting on youtube if the behavior is particularly dangerous or illegal

But stuff like this ('she called me a knob after i caught her up to have a go at her when she passed me too close for my liking'!) just brings it into disrepute I feel and compromises legitimate, serious safety concerns. 'We' (cyclists) will just be seen as whinging, antagonistic & uncompromising - especially if you read some of the comments on here - as Neil753 has also observed.

The pass wasn't particularly close, it's a busy urban environment where you're likely to have to start/ stop all the time. Even cyclists have to do this! So I don't think this was anything to get exercised about. If you reckon that's close and are so outraged, I really would not recommend cycling in a town or city. Ever!

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gadgetmind | 9 years ago
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Something tells me that there are a fair few people here who'll also say that this close pass by a bus was because I failed to do an emergency stop as soon as they got 1cm in front of me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HVwib1HWpk

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FluffyKittenofT... | 9 years ago
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I can only say I think both Joeinpoole's novel idea for a new highway code rule ("once your bumper is 1cm ahead of that of the vehicle you are overtaking you are entitled to sideswipe them off the road and its their fault for not screeching to a halt fast enough") and Neil753's comments are entirely mistaken.

I do, though, feel oddly amused at the mildness of the bus-driver's choice of epiphet. Not the greatest driver ever, but doesn't sound like vulgarity comes naturally to her. White van man would have used a stronger term, I reckon.

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Neil753 | 9 years ago
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And summing up from the "other side".

I don't think anyone should be judging this driver too harshly. Sometimes feelings run a little high. Sure, she made a mistake, but she's being confronted with an aggressive cyclist who she's apparently seen nearly killing some old guy, and we can see from the vid that the cyclist is riding without much skill (clipping the apex of a right hand bend without a safety check, a close pass of a pedestrian, failure to use brakes, etc), so it's likely that she's been watching his behaviour too. I'm not surprised she called him a knob, even though she shouldn't have done so.

The thing is, if people stumble across this forum, watch the video, and then read all these comments that condemn the bus driver whilst refusing to acknowledge any of the poor cycling, then it just makes cyclists out to be an arrogant bunch of (dare I say it) knobs.

Road.cc, if you're going to run these contentious stories, at least check the video carefully to see if the cyclist is committing just as many errors as the driver they're trying to vilify, because if they are then it doesn't place us in a very good light.

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sihall34 replied to Neil753 | 9 years ago
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Neil753 wrote:

And summing up from the "other side".

I don't think anyone should be judging this driver too harshly. Sometimes feelings run a little high. Sure, she made a mistake, but she's being confronted with an aggressive cyclist who she's apparently seen nearly killing some old guy, and we can see from the vid that the cyclist is riding without much skill (clipping the apex of a right hand bend without a safety check, a close pass of a pedestrian, failure to use brakes, etc), so it's likely that she's been watching his behaviour too. I'm not surprised she called him a knob, even though she shouldn't have done so.

The thing is, if people stumble across this forum, watch the video, and then read all these comments that condemn the bus driver whilst refusing to acknowledge any of the poor cycling, then it just makes cyclists out to be an arrogant bunch of (dare I say it) knobs.

Road.cc, if you're going to run these contentious stories, at least check the video carefully to see if the cyclist is committing just as many errors as the driver they're trying to vilify, because if they are then it doesn't place us in a very good light.

No matter how many errors a cyclist makes, there is no justification in endangering their life, that's the bottom line really. He could jump lights, ride on the pavement, weave through traffic etc, all bad riding and should be fined but it does not give anyone the right or excuse to pass them without being appropriately cautious.

The driver is a professional driver and should know how to overtake. Maybe they made a mistake (a dangerous one), but when confronted, they should have owned up to that mistake and not insulted the cyclist.

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to Neil753 | 9 years ago
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Neil753 wrote:

but she's being confronted with an aggressive cyclist who she's apparently seen nearly killing some old guy,

And your evidence for this is...what, exactly?

Personally, in the absence of any other evidence, it sounds to me like the usual collective blame rubbish that too many motorists love so much. The guy could, with the same logic, shout back "what about the nearly 2000 people you killed last year!".

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Yorkshie Whippet replied to Neil753 | 9 years ago
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Headline news,

And today, another bus driver was pulled dead from underneath a road bike after a cyclist in overtook the bus. Witnesses claim the bus was going too quickly for the cyclist to keep on so the cyclist ran the bus down whilst turning left. The driver family say he was a "lovely person, loved by everyone and will be much missed." Both police and bus companies say that the senseless killings for just a few seconds must stop.

In another part of the country, a car driver was killed in a hit and run involving a time trial bike. The time trail bike failled to stop at the scene and was last seen heading towards Wigan. This was in the same spot where Sir Bradley Wiggins pulled out of a garage forecourt on his road bike and ran over a Porsche. The Porsche driver still suffers from those injuries. Police are appealling for any witnesses. Traces of sky blue and black lycra were found at the scene. But they will not say if the two incidents are linked.

Meanwhile on the M25, there was a 15 bicycle pile up after one was seen swerving as it's rear tyre blew out. The road was closed for several hours as the ambulance trykes had difficulty reaching the scene and carbon fibre had to be cleared away. No serious injuries were reported but a cyclist was seen screaming about the smashed BMW that was on the back of his bike. Another was seen sobbing into his Rapha water bottle which had lost it's bottom. Footage of the crash, taken by cyclists on the opposite side slowing down to have look, is all over You Tube. Police say this dangerous a repeat the request that cyclists don't slow down if they are on the other side of such busy roads. Also anyone seen using a mobile phone whilst cycling will be dealt with.

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Yorkshie Whippet | 9 years ago
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So to sum up,

There are the professional drivers who seemingly disregard the Highway Code and Traffic Laws by stating that the cyclist is at fault as he did not allow the bus to complete a possibly dangerous overtake by not slowing down.

The rest of us who are constantly being reminded by the above lot about what the Highway Code say's i.e. red lights etc, maitain the bus driver's actions were wrong in accordance with the Highway Code.

The poor sod who took the footage and seemingly was more annoyed at being called a "knob" then the overtake.

And on another thread, UKBA are getting slammed for another persons cock-up.

Don't ya just love the net!

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4ChordsNoNet | 9 years ago
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The main reason I uploaded the video and complained to both Metrobus and TFL was not the overtake but her insult afterwards. I've been called a lot worse and just let it go, but a professional driver in a company vehicle, part funded out of my Council tax, should not act like that. After our 'chat' when I cycled off, if she'd said nothing more, the video probably would not have seen the light of day, but to lean out of the bus like that and shout as she did, I felt was not very professional.

I'm not perfect, no one is, I'm still learning at the age of 53, but if the same thing happened again I doubt that I'd do much different. I did slow down, I did apply my brakes, but was ready to pull up sharply if the need arises.

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jacknorell | 9 years ago
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The fact that we have so many cyclists defending a bus driver's very poor overtake is astounding. Or that people are saying it's the cyclist's fault the bus had to [pick whatever excuse...] which endangered the cyclist.

You lot should know what a safe, and legal, overtaking maneouvre looks like.

After all, our lives may depend on it, or be lost due to a failure to execute one.

Those of you who thought there was no problem with the overtaking, please surrender your licenses?

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arfa | 9 years ago
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Remind me, don't London buses kill or seriously injure on average 2 people a day in London ?
I think they could be driven with a lot more care and attention in my experience.

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Cyclist | 9 years ago
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Why should he have been forced to slow...yes he should of for his safety but at no time is it his responsibility that this situation occurred.

Loving the helmet cams now, next purchase I think.

And the apologies mean nothing if it's not from the individual that caused the problem. It's just a company doing the PR thing..it's worthless. Driver should be fined and get points for endangering a member of the public. Shame we got rid of the duelling law  16

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mrcheerful replied to Cyclist | 3 years ago
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Rule 168. Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass.

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Hirsute replied to mrcheerful | 3 years ago
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How on earth did you find this item?

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wtjs replied to Cyclist | 3 years ago
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the apologies mean nothing if it's not from the individual that caused the problem

Correct. The driver would just say "I didn't apologise because there was nothing to apologise for", there would be no record and if someone else complained about the same driver it's likely the company would protect the driver by deliberately not linking the 2 incidents.

I'm as militant on close-passing as anyone here, and considerably more diligent than most in trying to reform the b*****d police. However, I wouldn't have bothered to submit this video because it was a slow pass.

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HarrogateSpa | 9 years ago
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Quote:

I thought I was alone in being unable to see "a close pass" in that video. The bus only began pulling back in when the front of it was well past the cyclist. At that point the bus was clearly the lead vehicle and it was the cyclist's responsibility to moderate his speed to avoid a collision.

I think you've just invented a new rule of the road.

If you're overtaking in a vehicle, you do need to get the whole vehicle safely past a cyclist, not just part.

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ChairRDRF | 9 years ago
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I note a long debate here about exactly what the cyclist should or should not have been doing. However. the central issue is that the bus driver has not driven in the way a professional in charge of a massive vehicle on London streets should conduct themselves - not least the verbal abuse given. That's why an official apology has been given.

What interests me is that this is highly unlikely to be the only time this happens - the vast majority of cyclists do not have helmet cameras, after all.

The first need is for better training and disciplining of bus drivers, as well as a close look at the regime governing health and safety with regard to buses in London. Do take a look at Tom Kearney's web site here - it is mainly about Oxford Street but also buses in London as a whole.

For the record, I reckon London bus drivers are far better than the average motorist - but they are in charge f a massive vehicle with massive lethal potential, so need appropriate regulation.

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kobacom | 9 years ago
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I ride in London pretty much every day and I've lost count of the number of time this has happened to me. I have this theory that bus drivers think you become stationary as soon as they pass you, therefore it's ok to cut in straight away.

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zanf replied to kobacom | 9 years ago
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kobacom wrote:

I ride in London pretty much every day and I've lost count of the number of time this has happened to me. I have this theory that bus drivers think you become stationary as soon as they pass you, therefore it's ok to cut in straight away.

Whenever I ride to my girlfriends, I'll cross on Waterloo Bridge and will always get cab drivers cutting from the right hand lane to the left in a dangerous manner. It's always the case that there is no reason for them to either leave the right hand lane, nor to cut so violently into my path, but it always happens.

When I've caught up with them at the junction of the Strand and asked why they did it, they look at me blankly with absolutely no recollection of what they just did before exploding into expletive and derisory comments.

I just see it that the vast majority of people who use the roads are complete fucking idiots.

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Edgeley | 9 years ago
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Only time I have ever thought someone was deliberately trying to kill me was a bus in South London. Deliberately squeezed me into railings.

It is entirely good for bus drivers to think they are being filmed.

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Neil753 | 9 years ago
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@4chordsnonet.
If you say you were ready to brake, you clearly took the decision not to brake, so exacerbating the conflict. Maybe the driver made a mistake, but once the bus driver has committed to overtake, why not just allow the bus to quickly pass and just accept the loss of a few seconds added to your journey.

I don't know you, but many of your videos reveal a lack of observation, innapropriate speed, poor anticipation, and an apparent enthusiasm to up the ante; which doesn't really help the situation we face as cyclists.

Helmet cams can be a good thing, so maybe you could do some vids that demonstrate your skill in defensive riding, which some of you guys are posting already and are both helpful and enjoyable to watch.

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Yorkshie Whippet | 9 years ago
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Why should cyclist have to scrub off speed if there was enough room to complete the overtake without causing the other road user to swerve or brake? If they have to swerve or brake, then the overtake was not a safe one.

Strange, if this was done on the motorist it would be called "cutting someone up" or some cases "crash for cash". Resulting in cameras being fitted to vehicles to prove the who was not at fault. If it's done on a cyclist it's the cyclist at fault in some peoples eyes.

Hmm, look forward to cutting a HGV up on the motorway and after the crash claiming that he should have slowed down to avoid me. NOT!

Come on cyclists join me in riding down the middle of the road so that no-one can endanger our lives. Instead of this considerate riding through the glass and gravel in the gutter whilst trying not to hold traffic up. Let us show the buses, the hgvs, the reps..... that their time is worth less than our lives and we don't care if they are late as long as we are alive. As long as you are wearing a helmet, day-glo and reflectives and have 20 million candle power lights, they can not touch you. Together we can slow the country down and stop the senseless killing.

Oh dear the drugs have worn off!  35

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4ChordsNoNet | 9 years ago
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I did scrub off some speed as the bus past me, and was ready to slam on the anchors or jump ship if things got too bad. As others have said, just because the bus is much bigger than me doesn't mean it can bully its way past.

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IanW1968 | 9 years ago
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Joeinpoole- are seriously suggesting only the cab needs to pass whatevers being overtaken?

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Joeinpoole replied to IanW1968 | 9 years ago
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IanW1968 wrote:

Joeinpoole- are seriously suggesting only the cab needs to pass whatevers being overtaken?

I'm saying that once the bus is clearly in front of you then, if you have any common sense, you should ride defensively and concede a little speed if necessary to ensure the overtaking manoeuvre is completed as quickly as practical.

All the time you are alongside the bus you are in a highly vulnerable position and may also be in the driver's 'blind spot'. What if the bus suddenly swerves left for example, perhaps to avoid a pedestrian or a child?

Sure, you *can* fight with the bus and demand your *right* to maintain your speed for as long as possible. Unfortunately, if something goes wrong then the cyclist will most definitely be the loser in any subsequent collision. At least you'll be able to have "I was in the right" engraved on your headstone.

I really don't understand why our 'helmetcam warrior' is so angry all the time. Whenever I'm cycling I'm always in a good and generous mood. It's the exhilaration of the ride and the endorphins from the exercise that invariably put a smile on my face. So what if I have to slow down a little occasionally? That just means that I'll get a bit more exercise when I accelerate back up to speed again. Good!

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David Portland replied to Joeinpoole | 9 years ago
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Joeinpoole wrote:

I'm saying that once the bus is clearly in front of you then, if you have any common sense, you should ride defensively and concede a little speed if necessary to ensure the overtaking manoeuvre is completed as quickly as practical.

Surely "clearly in front" is exactly what it says -- the whole bus, in front. Rather than "mostly alongside". If the bus driver can't pass something, anything, without having to pull back in while the something is still alongside, then they shouldn't have passed there.

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IanW1968 | 9 years ago
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There may be circumstances when we(road users) have to take evasive action because drivers are dangerous and/or incompetent but it shouldnt be the expectation.

Usual victim blaming from the haulage association rep.

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Scoob_84 | 9 years ago
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So might is right? If a big vehicle tries to pass you where there isn't enough space, drop back and slow down? f**k that

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NeilXDavis | 9 years ago
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Doesnt look that bad to me...as mentioned why not take some speed off as the bus passes, I would....the initial pass distance is fine.

Share the road...

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md6 replied to NeilXDavis | 9 years ago
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NeilXDavis wrote:

Doesnt look that bad to me...as mentioned why not take some speed off as the bus passes, I would....the initial pass distance is fine.

Share the road...

I don't think its the initial distance that's the problem, its that the bus then cuts in before it completes the pass. London busses do regularly (at least in my experience) do this regularly, its almost as if the driver forgets the bus is rather long. I don't back off or slow when a vehicle passes (doesn't the highway code indicate that when being overtaken maintain your course and speed or some such?) but if it pulls in on me then i sure as hell do - there's no point being squashed, but if the driver is actually any good then there is no need to slow just because they are passing you.

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