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news
Southampton junction.pngSouthampton City Council “satisfied” with “innovative” junction + video of riding through it
Southampton City Council representatives say they are satisfied with the layout of a new junction that has been widely criticised both by local cyclists and activists from outside the city.
The junction was the scene of a hit-and-run incident on Wednesday when a rider was knocked off his bike whole attempting to negotiate the new layout. Critics have described the junction design as confusing and in particular pointed out that its tiny advanced stop boxes, narrow cycle lanes and lack of cycle-specific traffic lights all put riders in harm’s way instead of protecting them.
These details, critics say, do not match the original design.
A council spokesman told James Franklin of the Southern Daily Echo that current traffic legislation meant they could not include lights specifically for cyclists, while space constraints had impacted on the positioning of the ASLs.
He said that cycle lights could be used if a trial currently taking place in London proves successful and legislation changes and added: “Some technical elements have been tweaked as the plans have developed to address various safety audits, legal, traffic regulations and logistical issues.”
Cycle-specific traffic lights that control the flow of cycle traffic in the same direction as motor traffic are in use on London’s Cycle Superhighway 3, which opened in 2010.
The council’s Labour environment and transport czar Jacqui Rayment said: “The previous roundabout proved to be one of our highest accident black spots for cyclists so our challenge was to come up with a fresh new approach that would make the junction safer for all users. We also had to make sure that a new approach was adopted to satisfy the conditions attached to the funding we were given.
“We are satisfied that the innovative design of the new junction will help address many of the issues brought up by residents during our consultation. We are listening to these users and recently held our first cycle forum meeting to continue this dialogue.
“We now have a more direct route to the city centre for pedestrians and cyclists alike. With any new road layout there is a period of review where we monitor how it is working for all road users and pedestrians.
“And we are constantly looking at ways to improve traffic flow and safety city wide.”
Riding the new junction
In this helmet cam video ForestCyclist gives us a taste of what the new junction is like to ride through. “You really have got to have your wits about you at the lights haven’t you?” he says.
John has been writing about bikes and cycling for over 30 years since discovering that people were mug enough to pay him for it rather than expecting him to do an honest day's work.
He was heavily involved in the mountain bike boom of the late 1980s as a racer, team manager and race promoter, and that led to writing for Mountain Biking UK magazine shortly after its inception. He got the gig by phoning up the editor and telling him the magazine was rubbish and he could do better. Rather than telling him to get lost, MBUK editor Tym Manley called John’s bluff and the rest is history.
Since then he has worked on MTB Pro magazine and was editor of Maximum Mountain Bike and Australian Mountain Bike magazines, before switching to the web in 2000 to work for CyclingNews.com. Along with road.cc founder Tony Farrelly, John was on the launch team for BikeRadar.com and subsequently became editor in chief of Future Publishing’s group of cycling magazines and websites, including Cycling Plus, MBUK, What Mountain Bike and Procycling.
John has also written for Cyclist magazine, edited the BikeMagic website and was founding editor of TotalWomensCycling.com before handing over to someone far more representative of the site's main audience.
He joined road.cc in 2013. He lives in Cambridge where the lack of hills is more than made up for by the headwinds.
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There has been some comment on the views of the politician responsible: “The previous roundabout proved to be one of our highest accident black spots for cyclists so our challenge was to come up with a fresh new approach that would make the junction safer for all users.".
The point is - how is success going to be measured? If fewer cyclists use the junction, there may be fewer casualties amongst them. plus there are long term trends which may be downwards, and it is difficult to agree on what is statistically significant with the kind of numbers involved.
For an account of how danger for cyclists should - and should not - be measured, see http://rdrf.org.uk/2013/11/15/if-we-want-safer-roads-for-cycling-we-have...
Dear god. It's like a cargo cult built it.
Looks like it *could* be safer than a high speed (British style, generous width exits etc) roundabout. If, and only if, all the motorists are paying attention. Otherwise, how long before the usual SMIDSY left hook?.
It's as if they did go to one of the countries that "gets" cycling - my guess would be Denmark, looking at what they've built - but when they got there, it was pissing with rain a 4 in the morning, and there weren't any cyclists around. They saw a junction, didn't understand it, didn't observe it in action, and came back and built something similar.
Something like that could maybe be made safer with a simultaneous green phase for cyclists. But British transport planners are too proud to learn anything new and radical from abroad. "Not invented here".
It's already happenned, that's what the hit and run accident was, a left hook as the cyclist in question was using the cycle lane to go straight on.
See the post higher from the cyclist himself...
God, you're a moany lot aren't you?
A few facts:
1. The accident that happened here wasn't to do with the two stage right turn. It was because in Britain there's no law that says drivers have to give way when turning left across bike lanes, unlike NL and DK. It could have happened at any ASL. What we need is a change in the law or at least the Highway Code.
2. Two stage turns work absolutely fine in Denmark, Germany and in the Netherlands (although they're a bit different in NL, with protected corners). They're also recommended by US trainers (the 'box turn') for junctions with a lot of lanes where it's hard to get over to the middle. Ireland is experimenting with them. I do that type of turn myself sometimes in London and it's fine. Yes you have to wait a bit longer but it's easier than battling across heavy traffic if you're riding slowly in ordinary clothes.
3. There's nothing stopping anyone from taking the lane and turning from the middle, but my Granny wouldn't do that - would yours?
4. The bus stop design is pretty much a copy of the designs in the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany etc. Yes people will take a bit of time to get used to it, but for less confident cyclists it's much more comfortable than having to weave around a stationary bus.
I for one think it's good that councils are trying to do things better - it may not be perfect but it's worth experimenting and tweaking things in the light of experience. Or is everything so good now that we can only make things worse?
TB
Copenhagen junctions don't have a simultaneous green. Cyclists go with general traffic, which is required to give way (when turning) to cyclists going ahead. We don't have that law. We should be campaigning for it - it would significantly reduce the chance of this type of collision.
If they'd included a simultaneous green (illegal in the UK so they couldn't have, but let's just ignore that for the moment) then it would have proved that they hadn't been to Denmark.
Yes it's the same as in Denmark. After having turned, you look at the lights on the far side. It's not that difficult, honest.
Absolutely spot on Peter.
In fairness, it doesn't look as convoluted in the video as it appears in the diagram - it doesn't seem (from what I can make out through all the rain-splatter!) as if at any point he actually has his back to the lights, which is how it comes across from the diagram.
I have a couple of gripes with this junction. Firstly, it's totally non-standard for the UK and no UK road users have been taught how to use this sort of junction. Confusion = collisions. There is even a 'no right turn' sign when in reality you can turn right. Perhaps it is assumed that cyclists will ignore signage?
Secondly, it will take a cyclist twice as long to clear the junction if turning right compared to a driver. If policy makers are serious about encouraging cycling this situation should be reversed.
It also goes against modern cycle training, which teaches us to position to the right when turning right, just like any other road user (except large vehicles with wide turning circles).
It might be fair to say that there is nothing 'wrong' with the design but planners need to be aware of the training, education and culture of users.
its not innovative if its been done before. lol
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