Vuelta-chris horner

by Shanefutcher   September 2, 2013  

How is chris horner doing so well in the vuelta.the guy is a fantastic domestique and has long successful career but never been a GC contender in the grand tours.

50 user comments

Latest 30 commentsNewest firstBest ratedAll

Gkam84 wrote:
Its simple, He's finally got a chance to do something in a grand tour. He is the team leader, he doesn't have to worry about pulling Schleck's nappy up or making sure he's fed and watered.

He can finally able to do his own thing, I think he's always had it in him, just been held back by others

You're right about it being 'simple', but you then you ventured into fantasy land!

posted by daddyELVIS [443 posts]
4th September 2013 - 18:59

2 Likes

daddyELIVS, do us all a favour....go find some proof, or stop spouting trash.

Reading your comments from many threads, you see to think that every single rider is doping, you must love the sport Rolling On The Floor

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8934 posts]
4th September 2013 - 19:14

0 Likes

Gkam84 wrote:
daddyELIVS, do us all a favour....go find some proof, or stop spouting trash.

Reading your comments from many threads, you see to think that every single rider is doping, you must love the sport Rolling On The Floor

I do love the sport, but I'm not daft enough to think that the majority (including some of my favourite riders) are clean all the time. I'm certain many riders either lose weight using banned substances, train using band substances, or race using band substances, or do a combination of these, perhaps all 3. My belief is that doping in sport needs real debate because it's a very complicated area, not as simple as doping bad, clean good. But spouting that riders are clean when they obviously are not adds nothing to the debate.

BTW, would you have said the same thing to anyone who called LA out, back in the day?

posted by daddyELVIS [443 posts]
4th September 2013 - 19:23

1 Like

So Horner is obviously doping in your eyes, but to me, he's just having a good tour.

Lance's first couple of tours, yes, I would have defended him, but it became clearer as his career went on.

Where are Horner, has always been around, doing the same job as Ritchie Porte has been doing for Wiggo and Froome.

No he's got no-one to work for, he's having his chance and taking it with both hands.

So if Porte goes and shows like this next year when Wiggo won't be taking on a grand tour. Does that make him an obvious doper?

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8934 posts]
4th September 2013 - 19:41

1 Like

Gkam84 wrote:

So if Porte goes and shows like this next year when Wiggo won't be taking on a grand tour. Does that make him an obvious doper?

Hilarious Rolling On The Floor

posted by daddyELVIS [443 posts]
4th September 2013 - 19:57

1 Like

Lots of people called LA out; it cost them money and or their careers...
The problem was, as LA and others said, hundreds of negative tests for LA along with some discredited positives. This is hard (if wrong) evidence of clean riding. All other evidence was, as LA said verbal evidence from discredited sources.
Chris Horner would have also been tested, maybe not as much as Lance; but why have his negative tests not now been re-tested as positives? Because he is/was clean?

posted by SideBurn [836 posts]
4th September 2013 - 20:47

2 Likes

SideBurn wrote:

Chris Horner would have also been tested, maybe not as much as Lance; but why have his negative tests not now been re-tested as positives? Because he is/was clean?

erm, because they've not been re-tested as far as I'm aware.

posted by daddyELVIS [443 posts]
4th September 2013 - 20:59

1 Like

daddyELVIS wrote:
SideBurn wrote:

Chris Horner would have also been tested, maybe not as much as Lance; but why have his negative tests not now been re-tested as positives? Because he is/was clean?

erm, because they've not been re-tested as far as I'm aware.

I thought they were all re-tested; that is why the s**t hit the fan? Anyone know? Surely to test some but not others would be a bit fishy?
The whole thing stinks enough without selective re-testing...

posted by SideBurn [836 posts]
4th September 2013 - 21:14

0 Likes

SideBurn wrote:
daddyELVIS wrote:
SideBurn wrote:

Chris Horner would have also been tested, maybe not as much as Lance; but why have his negative tests not now been re-tested as positives? Because he is/was clean?

erm, because they've not been re-tested as far as I'm aware.

I thought they were all re-tested; that is why the s**t hit the fan? Anyone know? Surely to test some but not others would be a bit fishy?
The whole thing stinks enough without selective re-testing...

If you're talking about the 'reasoned decision', it was a case based on witness statements.

posted by daddyELVIS [443 posts]
4th September 2013 - 21:28

2 Likes

There's a statute of limitations on retests - 8 years I think? Armstrong's samples from '99 tested positive after the limitations were exceeded.

posted by bashthebox [646 posts]
4th September 2013 - 22:13

2 Likes

daddyELVIS wrote:
SideBurn wrote:
daddyELVIS wrote:
SideBurn wrote:

Chris Horner would have also been tested, maybe not as much as Lance; but why have his negative tests not now been re-tested as positives? Because he is/was clean?

erm, because they've not been re-tested as far as I'm aware.

I thought they were all re-tested; that is why the s**t hit the fan? Anyone know? Surely to test some but not others would be a bit fishy?
The whole thing stinks enough without selective re-testing...

If you're talking about the 'reasoned decision', it was a case based on witness statements.

Googling the issue suggests that some retesting has been done, Beijing Olympics for example but Chris did not ride Beijing they chose dopers instead. It is not clear how much retesting has been done.

posted by SideBurn [836 posts]
4th September 2013 - 22:13

2 Likes

Gkam84 wrote:
So Horner is obviously doping in your eyes, but to me, he's just having a good tour.

Lance's first couple of tours, yes, I would have defended him, but it became clearer as his career went on.

Where are Horner, has always been around, doing the same job as Ritchie Porte has been doing for Wiggo and Froome.

No he's got no-one to work for, he's having his chance and taking it with both hands.

So if Porte goes and shows like this next year when Wiggo won't be taking on a grand tour. Does that make him an obvious doper?

In many of the big cases we don't actually have positive tests - LAs case in particular and Balco. As I have posted above the thought is that the testing regimes are not good enough, and so many athletes pass the tests.

Besides, as we know from the Tour, they don't test for all types of PEDs all the time. Sometimes it is blood doping, sometimes it's for blood PEDs and sometimes just urine.

The science behind it shows that it is easier to evade a test, than be caught. Makes you realise how dumb it is to be caught.

Given that in a poll of Olympic athletes, when asked the question would you use a PED if you knew you could get away with it most answered 'yes'. You'd be a mug not to be using them.

I am skeptical about the 'Sky Train', and especially Horner. Yes, a positive result helps, but until testing catches up with doping we live in a world where the benefits of cheating are great, and the chances of being caught slim.

You don't rise from the shadows to become a GC contender over night either. You talk about shadows, but the Schleck's never cast a great shadow over their team - physically or metaphorically. Why has Horner not dominated a small tour, or taken the mantle in the time period from 2012 Tour? Even before, when Andy was injured I can only remember him in passing.

His ability in this Vuelta really doesn't pass the scratch test. Unfortunately for every incredible performance it raises the suspicion on the likes of Froome and co. Though I admit the Vuelta seems to bring with it less credible performances in a country which has had no drug testing scandal, but has been known as a great place for dopers to get their fixes....Even the results of the Fuentes case were burned to prevent further testing.

posted by Colin Peyresourde [1169 posts]
4th September 2013 - 22:45

0 Likes

I give up. None of you even seem to know what Horner has won, else you wouldn't be asking why he hasn't won smaller tours.

Also, his grand tour results, as a DS are right up there

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8934 posts]
4th September 2013 - 23:14

1 Like

Um...I suspect most of us know enough to know that a DS is a Directeur Sportif. AFAIK, Horner isn't one.

posted by tomisitt [35 posts]
4th September 2013 - 23:47

1 Like

I think we need to talk about Pozzovivo.
Thinking

posted by Some Fella [786 posts]
4th September 2013 - 23:58

2 Likes

tomisitt wrote:
Um...I suspect most of us know enough to know that a DS is a Directeur Sportif. AFAIK, Horner isn't one.

I would have let that comment go, because with 15 posts, I thought you were new to the site, but I see you've been around over two years.

So you should know by now, around these parts, DS is a shortened form of Domestique....

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8934 posts]
5th September 2013 - 0:14

0 Likes

What do his past results prove? That's like saying Armstrong didn't dope in 2005 because he'd won the Tour every year since 99.

Horner has publically stated what his stance on doping is - if you pass the test on the day, then you're clean, no going back. Part of the game is passing the test. He still believes LA should have his 7 Tour wins (BTW, I agree with him on that point).

posted by daddyELVIS [443 posts]
5th September 2013 - 2:59

2 Likes

daddyELVIS wrote:
What do his past results prove? That's like saying Armstrong didn't dope in 2005 because he'd won the Tour every year since 99.

Horner has publically stated what his stance on doping is - if you pass the test on the day, then you're clean, no going back. Part of the game is passing the test. He still believes LA should have his 7 Tour wins (BTW, I agree with him on that point).

Source?

posted by SideBurn [836 posts]
5th September 2013 - 8:22

2 Likes

Gkam84 wrote:
tomisitt wrote:
Um...I suspect most of us know enough to know that a DS is a Directeur Sportif. AFAIK, Horner isn't one.

I would have let that comment go, because with 15 posts, I thought you were new to the site, but I see you've been around over two years.

So you should know by now, around these parts, DS is a shortened form of Domestique....

Really? Why would anyone abbreviate "domestique" to DS when DS is already an acknowledged abbreviation for Directeur Sportif? Random.

posted by tomisitt [35 posts]
5th September 2013 - 9:03

2 Likes

@Gkam84 - what's the approved abbreviation for Directeur Sportif 'around these parts' then?

Low Speed Wobble's picture

posted by Low Speed Wobble [140 posts]
5th September 2013 - 10:19

2 Likes

I have been trying to back up my re-testing statement above; but can't.
My thoughts are that the people queuing up to grass themselves up and contribute to the USADA case against LA must have done so with some sort of encouragement ie admit or we will re-test. Chris seems to have been rubbing shoulders with many of the disgraced riders; surely USADA would have spoken to him and given him the same choice? I am speculating.
BUT anyone remember this from the 2010 TdF
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/lequipe-publishes-list-of-uc...
Chris Horner managed to finish 9th and scored -0- on the list = no suspicion at all.. but so did Zabriskie
Cavendish -2-
Wiggins -5-
Lance -4-
Basso -3-
He is either lucky or determined to be clean?
He has had plenty of opportunity to dope and must have raised suspicion? Time will, hopefully, tell.

posted by SideBurn [836 posts]
5th September 2013 - 10:22

1 Like

Low Speed Wobble wrote:
@Gkam84 - what's the approved abbreviation for Directeur Sportif 'around these parts' then?

DS meaning domestique comes from the fantasy game, I think. It's an accepted shorthand on these forums.

Directeur sportif is also abbreviated to DS; whichever one it is will usually be clear from the context.

Hope that helps Big Grin

Ghedebrav's picture

posted by Ghedebrav [1102 posts]
5th September 2013 - 10:36

0 Likes

SideBurn wrote:
daddyELVIS wrote:
What do his past results prove? That's like saying Armstrong didn't dope in 2005 because he'd won the Tour every year since 99.

Horner has publically stated what his stance on doping is - if you pass the test on the day, then you're clean, no going back. Part of the game is passing the test. He still believes LA should have his 7 Tour wins (BTW, I agree with him on that point).

Source?

Hopefully this link works, took me a while to find this! It's quite long, but very interesting and informative. The part I was referring to is in the Armstrong section at the end. After reading this, I'm sure you'll agree Horner is a fully-paid up member of the omerta crewe, as reinforced by JV's recent twitter comments. Doesn't proves he's doping now, or ever has doped, but it gives a good insight into his views:

posted by daddyELVIS [443 posts]
5th September 2013 - 13:34

2 Likes

daddyELVIS wrote:
SideBurn wrote:
daddyELVIS wrote:
What do his past results prove? That's like saying Armstrong didn't dope in 2005 because he'd won the Tour every year since 99.

Horner has publically stated what his stance on doping is - if you pass the test on the day, then you're clean, no going back. Part of the game is passing the test. He still believes LA should have his 7 Tour wins (BTW, I agree with him on that point).

Source?

Hopefully this link works, took me a while to find this! It's quite long, but very interesting and informative. The part I was referring to is in the Armstrong section at the end. After reading this, I'm sure you'll agree Horner is a fully-paid up member of the omerta crewe, as reinforced by JV's recent twitter comments. Doesn't proves he's doping now, or ever has doped, but it gives a good insight into his views:

hopefully works this time:
http://m.cyclingnews.com/features//exclusive-interview-chris-horner-on-h...

posted by daddyELVIS [443 posts]
5th September 2013 - 13:37

1 Like

daddyELVIS wrote:
SideBurn wrote:
daddyELVIS wrote:
What do his past results prove? That's like saying Armstrong didn't dope in 2005 because he'd won the Tour every year since 99.

Horner has publically stated what his stance on doping is - if you pass the test on the day, then you're clean, no going back. Part of the game is passing the test. He still believes LA should have his 7 Tour wins (BTW, I agree with him on that point).

Source?

Hopefully this link works, took me a while to find this! It's quite long, but very interesting and informative. The part I was referring to is in the Armstrong section at the end. After reading this, I'm sure you'll agree Horner is a fully-paid up member of the omerta crewe, as reinforced by JV's recent twitter comments. Doesn't proves he's doping now, or ever has doped, but it gives a good insight into his views:

It'd be easier to count the people who aren't part of the pro cycling omerta crew.

posted by northstar [1107 posts]
5th September 2013 - 15:45

0 Likes

Just been reading this http://journalvelo.com/opinion/chris-horners-power-files-revealed-is-he-...

Seems, no matter what he weights, his power to weight doesn't go above the suspicious level that everyone seems to spout, but no-one knows where it came from...

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8934 posts]
5th September 2013 - 23:35

1 Like

Gkam84 wrote:
Just been reading this http://journalvelo.com/opinion/chris-horners-power-files-revealed-is-he-...

Seems, no matter what he weights, his power to weight doesn't go above the suspicious level that everyone seems to spout, but no-one knows where it came from...

close to 6.2 on final climb at over 40 years old!! What could he push out at his peak?? He must have been the worlds best cyclist at one time. Imagine what he could have done the other day if he'd have been doped!

posted by daddyELVIS [443 posts]
6th September 2013 - 0:33

1 Like

Gkam84 wrote:
So you should know by now, around these parts, DS is a shortened form of Domestique....

I wasn't aware of this as I don't look at the fantasy league on this site.

DS = Directeur Sportif in the rest of the world.

Despite having the opportunity during the long interview with Matt Rendell, Horner never said he was racing clean. And interestingly, at the press conference even Valverde, an experienced and recidivist doper, seemed to be left wondering at Horner's performance. That certainly rang an alarm bell for me!

Simon E's picture

posted by Simon E [2000 posts]
6th September 2013 - 9:36

1 Like

I see what you mean daddyELVIS; given the company that he has kept it would take an iron will to not dope. But he seems ambivalent to the issue and follows the familiar not doping = not getting caught ideology.
But the company he has kept must have put him under the spotlight for many years, USADA in particular... better to be born lucky than rich?

posted by SideBurn [836 posts]
6th September 2013 - 9:56

2 Likes

Simon E wrote:
And interestingly, at the press conference even Valverde, an experienced and recidivist doper, seemed to be left wondering at Horner's performance. That certainly rang an alarm bell for me!

Takes one to know one.

posted by Some Fella [786 posts]
6th September 2013 - 12:00

2 Likes