Vuelta - Stage 10

by backflipbedlem   September 2, 2013  

Well um'd and ahh'd about my team earlier, thought I'd mull it over for a while, then missed deadline by 2 mins, so guess that made my mind up!
Go Mollema!!!!

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1,2,5,7,9,12,20 - not bad but not great Sad

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

stumps's picture

posted by stumps [3008 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:02

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1,2,3,4,7,9,12 + 5 for Zubeldia if he finishes. Not bad considering LeClerq didn't make it out of the neutral zone

Timbo13's picture

posted by Timbo13 [272 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:07

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2,3,4,7,10,12,17 (plus GC and team points if Zubeldia manages to haul himself over the finish).

Not bad on the face of it, but looks like there'll be a lot of high scores. Thinking

By the way, when was the last time a 900 year old man won two stages of a grand tour?!

Ghedebrav's picture

posted by Ghedebrav [1120 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:11

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GC

1. HORNER, Christopher 184 RADIOSHACK LEOPARD 40h 29' 14''
2. NIBALI, Vincenzo 31 ASTANA PRO TEAM 40h 29' 57'' + 43''
3. ROCHE, Nicolas 205 TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF 40h 30' 07'' + 53''
4. VALVERDE, Alejandro 1 MOVISTAR TEAM 40h 30' 16'' + 1' 02''
5. RODRIGUEZ, Joaquin 121 KATUSHA TEAM 40h 30' 54'' + 1' 40''
6. MORENO, Daniel 127 KATUSHA TEAM 40h 31' 18'' + 2' 04''
7. BASSO, Ivan 71 CANNONDALE PRO CYCLING 40h 31' 34'' + 2' 20''
8. PINOT, Thibaut 101 FDJ.FR 40h 32' 25'' + 3' 11''
9. MAJKA, Rafal 202 TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF 40h 32' 30'' + 3' 16''
10. POZZOVIVO, Domenico 11 AG2R LA MONDIALE 40h 32' 42'' + 3' 28''

Timbo13's picture

posted by Timbo13 [272 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:12

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Zubeldia safe home in 73rd for the day

Timbo13's picture

posted by Timbo13 [272 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:14

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Be interesting to see if someone has a team that beats the winning team (group of 7) from stage 8.

1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9, 12, 20 & zubeldia

posted by cherrypicked [176 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:17

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Erm, isn't today supposed to be a rest day? At Wits End

I think my unchanged team scored pretty well despite the confusion.

posted by chokofingrz [366 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:21

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Thoughts on what Wednesday could do to GC? I'd expect Nibali to be in red come Thursday and Majka to put some serious time into his rivals (probably not enough to crack top 5, mind - but this'll be his big opportunity).

Ghedebrav's picture

posted by Ghedebrav [1120 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:23

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well you've all done better than me!
2,3,9,20

backflipbedlem's picture

posted by backflipbedlem [1025 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:24

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cherrypicked wrote:
Be interesting to see if someone has a team that beats the winning team (group of 7) from stage 8.

1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9, 12, 20 & zubeldia

Wave that's my team Big Grin

'Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you'

livestrongnick's picture

posted by livestrongnick [1967 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:31

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livestrongnick wrote:
cherrypicked wrote:
Be interesting to see if someone has a team that beats the winning team (group of 7) from stage 8.

1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9, 12, 20 & zubeldia

Wave that's my team Big Grin

Oh. There could be more than 7 then! Laughing
Maybe someone has beat it though...then again we might be off to the mint for a 22 sided coin.

posted by cherrypicked [176 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:36

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Looks like only 121 riders finished....so far.

Could be a mass cut today Laughing

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [9163 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:50

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Ghedebrav wrote:
Thoughts on what Wednesday could do to GC? I'd expect Nibali to be in red come Thursday and Majka to put some serious time into his rivals (probably not enough to crack top 5, mind - but this'll be his big opportunity).

I think Horner will do well (end up 3rd on GC maybe), Nibali and Valverde 1-2 on GC. Basso to move up to 4th.
The fact that it isnt completely flat will make it easier for the GC guys, so I think Roche will still comfortably be top 10 on GC, probably top 7 as I can't see Majka or Pinot taking 2 minutes out of him.
Kangert could end up being top 10 after the ITT.

For the stage itself the top 10 will be made up for Martin, Fabian, Kangert, Pinotti alongside Valverde Nibali, Basso in my opinion, but what order I couldn't tell you

posted by TERatcliffe26 [4150 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 16:57

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Gkam84 wrote:
Looks like only 121 riders finished....so far.

Could be a mass cut today Laughing

Just as you say that its been updated, 188 finishers now which is correct

Velasco last man

posted by TERatcliffe26 [4150 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 17:00

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ONE stage winner today, but its easy to see that the adjustment in riders values has had one simple effect. Everyone is picking the same team. Check out the scores when the stage finished updating, you'll see what I mean

1 mshamster mshamster 228

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [9163 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 17:28

1 Like

Gkam84 wrote:
ONE stage winner today, but its easy to see that the adjustment in riders values has had one simple effect. Everyone is picking the same team. Check out the scores when the stage finished updating, you'll see what I mean

1 mshamster mshamster 228

I know what you mean, ive seen the scores and the fact that I scored about 40 points less than the stage winner yet came around 500th on the stage is showing how similar the teams are, and picking a good solid team sees you loose ground, and if you get a risk wrong (like with de clerq for me, it backfires)

posted by TERatcliffe26 [4150 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 17:33

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218 points but only 105th on the stage. Up to 73rd overall but the gaps are opening up, currently 260 points behind the leader. Think my aim is now to secure a top 50 place overall if I can and try and win the Forum Scorum Vuelta.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 17:33

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I think the experiment with value's hasn't worked.

Time to put them back to TdF way. Else everyone is going to have the same teams over and over again

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [9163 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 17:40

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Gkam84 wrote:
ONE stage winner today, but its easy to see that the adjustment in riders values has had one simple effect. Everyone is picking the same team. Check out the scores when the stage finished updating, you'll see what I mean

1 mshamster mshamster 228

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

”after this, therefore because of this"

Whatever happens with pricing, teams always end up the same because today, after three consecutive days in the mountains, it was clear who the strongest riders were.

The best riders, Nibali, Valverde, Rodriguez were clearly good picks. I choose to go for two of those three and spread my credits around the secondary options like Rocha, Pozzovivo, Moreno and Horner as well riders like Basso and Konig.

Despite the depth of the field, the strongest team is still largely evident to most players. That's why everyone is picking the same riders.

Everyone said that the restricted budgets of the Tour caused everyone to pick the same riders, now the tables are reversed and we still have the same problems. Its not the values that cause the problems, its just the nature of cycling and the game.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 17:51

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The high prices forced people to make choices of which riders to pick though. With the low values, it means you can almost pick at will and everyone can fit in. Day Dreaming

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [9163 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 17:54

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Gkam84 wrote:
The high prices forced people to make choices of which riders to pick though. With the low values, it means you can almost pick at will and everyone can fit in. Day Dreaming

I'm not arguing against the fact that it means that you can pick who you want and have a very strong team, I'm just saying that's a different issue from everyone picking the same riders.

Lowering prices clearly leads to higher scores, nobody will argue against that. It also clearly means players have greater choice in their team selection and can pick more good riders.

That though doesn't necessarily lead to everyone picking the same team. What leads to that is the game itself, the fact that some riders are better than others, that some have a much higher chance of scoring and scoring highly. Because the aim of the game is to pick these riders people will pick them whatever the budget restrictions.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 18:26

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Gkam84 wrote:
I think the experiment with value's hasn't worked.

Time to put them back to TdF way. Else everyone is going to have the same teams over and over again


I feel like TdF was the exception - this is what its been like with most tours, being able to pick most of the riders you want (resulting in a lot of similar teams). I thought the TdF was better in terms of the values of the top riders, but there weren't enough cheap DS to balance it out. I'd rather everyone had 2 from Valverde/Nibali/Rodriguez, than 2 from Bono/Mederel/Fischer!!
Dave's idea to just amend the budget per race depending on the values of the registered riders seems like a pretty good solution.

chrisdstripes's picture

posted by chrisdstripes [1660 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 18:30

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chrisdstripes wrote:
Gkam84 wrote:
I think the experiment with value's hasn't worked.

Time to put them back to TdF way. Else everyone is going to have the same teams over and over again


I feel like TdF was the exception - this is what its been like with most tours, being able to pick most of the riders you want (resulting in a lot of similar teams). I thought the TdF was better in terms of the values of the top riders, but there weren't enough cheap DS to balance it out. I'd rather everyone had 2 from Valverde/Nibali/Rodriguez, than 2 from Bono/Mederel/Fischer!!
Dave's idea to just amend the budget per race depending on the values of the registered riders seems like a pretty good solution.

The Giro seemed spot on, didn't it?

chrisdstripes is right, the problem with the values in the Tour wasn't the top end, but the bottom end - everyone was stuck with the same low-value guys.

And in any case, I've been doing a bang up job of picking a 'non-optimal' squad of riders in this competition...

Ghedebrav's picture

posted by Ghedebrav [1120 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 19:33

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The Giro was spot on, The TdF was strange because most teams sent strong riders, so the lower end was lacking.

The Vuelta, with the value's being changed around, has meant the balance has swung and some riders seem to be dirt cheap for who they are Silly

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [9163 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 20:14

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I swapped Pinot and Majka last night for Moreno and Konig. If I hadn't, I would have won the stage Crying Crying
15= though so getting closer.

Just brought in Martin and Cancellara for tomorrow. Going to keep a team for the next lot of mountains and see if I can hit the jackpot then.

posted by Alan Tullett [1489 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 20:20

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y o y o y did i sell horner and nibali for j-rod and basso???

J Andrew Hill

Its a marathon, not a snickers

...

JAndrewHill's picture

posted by JAndrewHill [1258 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 21:55

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Gkam84 wrote:
ONE stage winner today, but its easy to see that the adjustment in riders values has had one simple effect. Everyone is picking the same team. Check out the scores when the stage finished updating, you'll see what I mean

fifteen people scored equal first on one stage of the tour de france. your point?

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7642 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 21:59

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if everyone's team is the same, why aren't you all winning?

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7642 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 22:00

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i certainly think the lower prices have made the vuelta a bit more tactical. if you can reasonably have seven nailed-down scorers and there's only two transfers a stage, who do you swap in? who goes?

of *course* there was lots of good scores today, after three days of mountains culminating in a big summit finish where all the favourites finshed near the front. lots of people have lots of good climbers.

when it goes ITT - flat - MM - SF at the end of the week, it's not going to be as easy, is it?

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7642 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 22:03

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you don't win the vuelta by picking horner and nibali and a bunch of others on a big summit (you can lose it by not picking them, though) - you win it by adapting your team to get good scores when it's not as predictable. them's the days that really matter.

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7642 posts]
2nd September 2013 - 22:06

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