Suggestions/requests for the 2014 season

by drheaton   August 26, 2013  

Autumn is here, the Vuelta has started and we're beginning to think about the World Championships.  That means that it's the traditional time for me to open up a 'suggestion' and 'request' thread where you can outline how you'd like the game to change for next season and what you think has worked particularly well this year.

Despite the fact that I'm now involved in a small way with running the game (namely, updating start lists and results) as in previous years this is very much unofficial and just a place for everyone to get together and bounce some ideas around.  Nothing may come of them but Dave has always been great at incorporating good ideas from the community where possible.

For reference, you can find the 2012 and 2013 threads here:

"Suggestions for the 2013 season"

"Suggestions for 2012 season"

So, what do you think has worked well this year and what would you like to see change?

124 user comments

Latest 30 commentsNewest firstBest ratedAll

leortp wrote:
I wonder if a ranking system could be possible in some shape way or form - perhaps for the overall points total? Not 100% on official UCI terminology so bear with me. Could be done by putting different badges that only recognise Grand Tour and Mounment achievements, or if it was done around point scoring it'd be something like:

For all World Tour Races you get 100% of the the points
for all 2.1 you get 75% of the points
for all 2.2 you get 50%

this way it should appease those people who can't keep up with all the races as it won't affect their overall standing too much - the people who do all the races still get badges, stage wins etc. to play for, and it mirrors real cycling a bit more in that yeah it's great if you win a smaller race but it's not as good as winning a stage in a Grand Tour or a monument.

Good idea, that.

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7700 posts]
25th October 2013 - 14:27

12 Likes

I know I've asked for this before, just about every year, but, here goes, on the mini-league pages, could you add a column that tells you where the league members stand in the overall competition, too? And maybe another one showing how many points each team is behind the overall competition leader? Thanks!

You know who I am.

posted by orli [76 posts]
25th October 2013 - 20:29

9 Likes

pritchardbrown wrote:
My only change would be to include women's racing next year...

Wow. It looks like lots of female riders are being added to the TDU women's teams. How about that?

posted by benji p [54 posts]
22nd November 2013 - 1:39

10 Likes

Dave Atkinson wrote:
leortp wrote:
I wonder if a ranking system could be possible in some shape way or form - perhaps for the overall points total? Not 100% on official UCI terminology so bear with me. Could be done by putting different badges that only recognise Grand Tour and Mounment achievements, or if it was done around point scoring it'd be something like:

For all World Tour Races you get 100% of the the points
for all 2.1 you get 75% of the points
for all 2.2 you get 50%

this way it should appease those people who can't keep up with all the races as it won't affect their overall standing too much - the people who do all the races still get badges, stage wins etc. to play for, and it mirrors real cycling a bit more in that yeah it's great if you win a smaller race but it's not as good as winning a stage in a Grand Tour or a monument.

Good idea, that.

Bad idea.

posted by northstar [1113 posts]
22nd November 2013 - 3:09

11 Likes

benji p wrote:
pritchardbrown wrote:
My only change would be to include women's racing next year...

Wow. It looks like lots of female riders are being added to the TDU women's teams. How about that?

I didn't know there was a woman's TDU Day Dreaming

I was just trying to spark some debate, because the forum is quiet, so I stuck some females riders in the roster changes.

I'm in the process of loading woman riders in and changing all the teams around

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [9201 posts]
22nd November 2013 - 6:23

9 Likes

northstar wrote:
Dave Atkinson wrote:
leortp wrote:
I wonder if a ranking system could be possible in some shape way or form - perhaps for the overall points total? Not 100% on official UCI terminology so bear with me. Could be done by putting different badges that only recognise Grand Tour and Mounment achievements, or if it was done around point scoring it'd be something like:

For all World Tour Races you get 100% of the the points
for all 2.1 you get 75% of the points
for all 2.2 you get 50%

this way it should appease those people who can't keep up with all the races as it won't affect their overall standing too much - the people who do all the races still get badges, stage wins etc. to play for, and it mirrors real cycling a bit more in that yeah it's great if you win a smaller race but it's not as good as winning a stage in a Grand Tour or a monument.

Good idea, that.

Bad idea.

Want to elaborate on that at all?

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
22nd November 2013 - 9:40

8 Likes

drheaton wrote:
northstar wrote:
Dave Atkinson wrote:
leortp wrote:
I wonder if a ranking system could be possible in some shape way or form - perhaps for the overall points total? Not 100% on official UCI terminology so bear with me. Could be done by putting different badges that only recognise Grand Tour and Mounment achievements, or if it was done around point scoring it'd be something like:

For all World Tour Races you get 100% of the the points
for all 2.1 you get 75% of the points
for all 2.2 you get 50%

this way it should appease those people who can't keep up with all the races as it won't affect their overall standing too much - the people who do all the races still get badges, stage wins etc. to play for, and it mirrors real cycling a bit more in that yeah it's great if you win a smaller race but it's not as good as winning a stage in a Grand Tour or a monument.

Good idea, that.

Bad idea.

Want to elaborate on that at all?

Yes, will it effect the scoring (or anything really) of anyone who does not partake in all of the races?

posted by northstar [1113 posts]
22nd November 2013 - 11:22

7 Likes

northstar wrote:
drheaton wrote:
northstar wrote:
Dave Atkinson wrote:
leortp wrote:
I wonder if a ranking system could be possible in some shape way or form - perhaps for the overall points total? Not 100% on official UCI terminology so bear with me. Could be done by putting different badges that only recognise Grand Tour and Mounment achievements, or if it was done around point scoring it'd be something like:

For all World Tour Races you get 100% of the the points
for all 2.1 you get 75% of the points
for all 2.2 you get 50%

this way it should appease those people who can't keep up with all the races as it won't affect their overall standing too much - the people who do all the races still get badges, stage wins etc. to play for, and it mirrors real cycling a bit more in that yeah it's great if you win a smaller race but it's not as good as winning a stage in a Grand Tour or a monument.

Good idea, that.

Bad idea.

Want to elaborate on that at all?

Yes, will it effect the scoring (or anything really) of anyone who does not partake in all of the races?

much less so than currently if you miss a smaller race

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7700 posts]
22nd November 2013 - 12:03

10 Likes

Well, if it has any negative effect perhaps you should think twice...

posted by northstar [1113 posts]
22nd November 2013 - 16:31

9 Likes

Dave Atkinson wrote:
northstar wrote:
drheaton wrote:
northstar wrote:
Dave Atkinson wrote:
leortp wrote:
I wonder if a ranking system could be possible in some shape way or form - perhaps for the overall points total? Not 100% on official UCI terminology so bear with me. Could be done by putting different badges that only recognise Grand Tour and Mounment achievements, or if it was done around point scoring it'd be something like:

For all World Tour Races you get 100% of the the points
for all 2.1 you get 75% of the points
for all 2.2 you get 50%

this way it should appease those people who can't keep up with all the races as it won't affect their overall standing too much - the people who do all the races still get badges, stage wins etc. to play for, and it mirrors real cycling a bit more in that yeah it's great if you win a smaller race but it's not as good as winning a stage in a Grand Tour or a monument.

Good idea, that.

Bad idea.

Want to elaborate on that at all?

Yes, will it effect the scoring (or anything really) of anyone who does not partake in all of the races?

much less so than currently if you miss a smaller race

I like the idea and we should give it a go.

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

posted by stumps [3034 posts]
22nd November 2013 - 21:00

8 Likes

zzzz.

posted by northstar [1113 posts]
22nd November 2013 - 21:13

8 Likes

leortp wrote:
I wonder if a ranking system could be possible in some shape way or form - perhaps for the overall points total? Not 100% on official UCI terminology so bear with me. Could be done by putting different badges that only recognise Grand Tour and Mounment achievements, or if it was done around point scoring it'd be something like:

For all World Tour Races you get 100% of the the points
for all 2.1 you get 75% of the points
for all 2.2 you get 50%

this way it should appease those people who can't keep up with all the races as it won't affect their overall standing too much - the people who do all the races still get badges, stage wins etc. to play for, and it mirrors real cycling a bit more in that yeah it's great if you win a smaller race but it's not as good as winning a stage in a Grand Tour or a monument.

Or perhaps having a seperate ranking system that just tots up points from the monuments and world tours so people can prioritize? Maybe this exists by virtue of premium and non premium rankings actually?

Hell, complicate things, why not? Do all of these... It really doesn't matter... The diehards will still compete in all the competitions possible...

posted by benji p [54 posts]
23rd November 2013 - 1:16

7 Likes

Cycling On A Budget........

Is it possible for "road.cc" to do some articles that show cyclists that do not have a big bank balance the best bargains out there in the cycling world. This should includes things like Bikes, Clothing, component upgrades etc. There are lots of good deals out there, it's just finding them. Laughing

posted by 8o8 finch@m [18 posts]
23rd November 2013 - 13:23

8 Likes

northstar wrote:
zzzz.

I hope thats directed at me, its been a while since you posted a derogatory comment and i'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms Rolling On The Floor Rolling On The Floor

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

posted by stumps [3034 posts]
23rd November 2013 - 18:29

10 Likes

stumps wrote:
northstar wrote:
zzzz.

I hope thats directed at me, its been a while since you posted a derogatory comment and i'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms Rolling On The Floor Rolling On The Floor

LOL and your obsession with me continues in comments section, no wonder you are (or claim to be) a pig, tragic, xxx.

Don't bother replying because it won't be read but you probably will anyway ; )

posted by northstar [1113 posts]
23rd November 2013 - 20:45

11 Likes

8o8 finch@m wrote:
Cycling On A Budget........

Is it possible for "road.cc" to do some articles that show cyclists that do not have a big bank balance the best bargains out there in the cycling world. This should includes things like Bikes, Clothing, component upgrades etc. There are lots of good deals out there, it's just finding them. Laughing

it is, although this thread is specifically about the fantasy game

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7700 posts]
23rd November 2013 - 20:57

8 Likes

northstar wrote:
zzzz.

stumps wrote:
I hope thats directed at me, its been a while since you posted a derogatory comment and i'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms Rolling On The Floor Rolling On The Floor

northstar wrote:
LOL and your obsession with me continues in comments section, no wonder you are (or claim to be) a pig, tragic, xxx.

Don't bother replying because it won't be read but you probably will anyway ; )

Are you two married?

posted by benji p [54 posts]
24th November 2013 - 12:50

15 Likes

enrique wrote:
I was just looking at the Rankings page and wondering if it's up to date as far as including the last points from the last races...

Gkam, does the Rankings page currently include the last points that were earned by the riders in the last competiton of 2013? Just wondering if those got included or if what we see on that page was the last Ranking before the last race...

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game! And my buddy STEVESPRO!

posted by enrique [2077 posts]
15th December 2013 - 0:21

10 Likes

drheaton wrote:

Personally I think a UCI points style system could work where points are awarded to the top finishers on a stage (top 20 teams?) then to the top in the overall at the end of the race (top 100?) in such a way that it means that for the overall points table finishin 101st is exactly the same as not competing. Not sure how it'd work in practice though.

I like this idea. Only Wig_Billy will kill us

posted by cherrypicked [176 posts]
16th December 2013 - 13:55

4 Likes

I would like to propose a couple of scoring changes. One would be to lower the points offered at the finish line during the Spring and Autumn Classics the 50 points on offer to 1st place down to 40 points or so. I think they are given too many points as stand alone races. I'd also like to see the points on offer for a breakaway at mid-race to be wloered to 5 points. The other suggestion, which has been discussed previously, is to award the KOM points at the end of a stage when the stage ends on a categorized climb. I just think it's appropriate that if the KOM points are earned by a rider on a breakaway on categorized climbs along the way, the KOM points at the end of a stage should be awarded too.

You know who I am.

posted by orli [76 posts]
30th December 2013 - 21:36

4 Likes

This is probably a very weird suggestion, but it's been in the back of my head for a while. I was wondering if there was a way to enter a team of less than 9 riders. Once in a while, I've thought it'd be pretty cool to race with 5 riders instead of 9, for example. Budget wise that would mean I could stuff my team with more stars... I know it sounds crazy Sad

posted by monica [24 posts]
3rd January 2014 - 0:46

5 Likes

orli wrote:
I would like to propose a couple of scoring changes. One would be to lower the points offered at the finish line during the Spring and Autumn Classics the 50 points on offer to 1st place down to 40 points or so. I think they are given too many points as stand alone races.

Part of me agrees but the classics are major races in the calendar, Paris-Roubaix and Milan-San Remo are arguably bigger and more important than many of the mid-tier stage races in the fantasy calendar. Classics also have no GC, KoM or PC points on offer meaning in some cases finish line points are the only ones awarded.

The thinking behind 50 points for the winner of a classic is that it is the usual 35 points for the stage win plus 10 for the theoretical GC and 5 for the 'points competition'. That puts the points on offer for winning a classics in line with those on offer for winning the first stage of a Tour.

Perhaps one solution may be to 'weight' each race so that Paris-Roubaix is worth more points than, say, Kuurne-Bruxels-Kuurne. I'd argue though that this is something that might be useful across the board because there's no good reason for the Tour of the Med to be scored as highly as the Criterium Dauphine.

orli wrote:
I'd also like to see the points on offer for a breakaway at mid-race to be wloered to 5 points. The other suggestion, which has been discussed previously, is to award the KOM points at the end of a stage when the stage ends on a categorized climb. I just think it's appropriate that if the KOM points are earned by a rider on a breakaway on categorized climbs along the way, the KOM points at the end of a stage should be awarded too.

I see the logic in this but points scored in a stage race are already heavily skewed towards the days in the mountains and this would push that even further. Also, if you were to award KoM points at the finish line why are we not awarding additional sprint competition points at the finish line of flat stages too? There is an argument that the 35 points on offer last year for winning a stage are representative of both the stage win and any points awarded at the finish line and that it should be kept at 35 pointed on ALL stages for the sake of consistency across races and stages.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
3rd January 2014 - 11:07

6 Likes

wonder how much Wiggle room there'll be in the 2014 edition

posted by leortp [68 posts]
3rd January 2014 - 12:34

4 Likes

drheaton wrote:
The thinking behind 50 points for the winner of a classic is that it is the usual 35 points for the stage win plus 10 for the theoretical GC and 5 for the 'points competition'. That puts the points on offer for winning a classics in line with those on offer for winning the first stage of a Tour.

I'd be ok with the points dropping down from 50 points to 45 or 40 points, just to not complicate it too much and have to weigh each race differently. I just equate the 50 with wearing or "earning" the jerseys, so it seems like a little too much to have as many points as a guy who goes up to the podium of a stage race three times in one day. Smile How many Classics are there? 6? 8? 12? And how many first days of stage races do we have? I don't know, I haven't counted, really, I just think these races are given way too many points. Thanks for responding.

drheaton wrote:
There is an argument that the 35 points on offer last year for winning a stage are representative of both the stage win and any points awarded at the finish line and that it should be kept at 35 pointed on ALL stages for the sake of consistency across races and stages.

You might think I'm nuts but, I think the more points the merrier for the lucky players who actually pick the correct riders on these stages! Just a thought.... Thanks again for your comments. You sound pretty much "in the know" about how the game is run, are you part of the game committee, do you work for Road.cc? Just wondering...

You know who I am.

posted by orli [76 posts]
3rd January 2014 - 22:39

6 Likes

orli wrote:
I'd be ok with the points dropping down from 50 points to 45 or 40 points, just to not complicate it too much and have to weigh each race differently. I just equate the 50 with wearing or "earning" the jerseys, so it seems like a little too much to have as many points as a guy who goes up to the podium of a stage race three times in one day. Smile How many Classics are there? 6? 8? 12? And how many first days of stage races do we have? I don't know, I haven't counted, really, I just think these races are given way too many points. Thanks for responding.

Each of the major classics is up there with the very biggest races a rider can win, think the likes of Paris-Roubaix, Amstel Gold or Liege-Bastogne-Liege, all major races which mean more to a rider and to sponsors than winning the GC in many small tours. The UCI also, for the purposes of the World Tour rankings, rate classics higher than some other wins.

If you want a breakdown of last year's calendar take a look at this

http://road.cc/content/forum/77002-fantasy-cycling-calendar

orli wrote:
You might think I'm nuts but, I think the more points the merrier for the lucky players who actually pick the correct riders on these stages! Just a thought.... Thanks again for your comments. You sound pretty much "in the know" about how the game is run, are you part of the game committee, do you work for Road.cc? Just wondering...

More points is fine but a balance needs to be found between finish line and breakaway points, between flat and mountain stages and between GC standings points and stage points.

You could argue that a stage win is worth more than a few KoM points but you can also argue that GC is most important so with not give 100 points to the GC standings and fewer for stage wins? There always needs to be a balance between the different sorts of points on offer and I think that largely, last year, this balance was just about right.

Oh, and I don't work for road.cc Smile I help with some scoring and setting up races but thats about it.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
4th January 2014 - 0:29

4 Likes

drheaton wrote:
There always needs to be a balance between the different sorts of points on offer and I think that largely, last year, this balance was just about right.

Oh, and I don't work for road.cc Smile I help with some scoring and setting up races but thats about it.

Do you think the scoring will change much this year?

posted by benji p [54 posts]
9th January 2014 - 16:09

2 Likes

Ok, how about this? Next year you can only pick 'unique' teams at the start of a competition. Meaning the first one to pick a certain team has 'rights' to it if they 'register' it first... This would only hold for the first day of a competition, of course! Smile If you assemble a team that's already been picked, you could get a message that says "This team has already been picked, please change a rider in your team". Yeah, it's a pretty ridiculous idea, but it'd be kind of cool to have everyone start off with a different team Smile I know... It's kind of crazy, but it might be fun! Smile Please don't take it too seriously.... Just trying to have some fun while the competition opens Smile

If we did that, then maybe it could be like a draft concept, where the competition winner from last year get the first choice, etc... So obutterwick would get first crack at the first Tour de Romandie team...

Of course, this would be a nightmare to program... You'd also have to wait for people to pick their teams if you did it in draft order... And you'd probably have to have stats that show you how many teams already have that rider, so, forget it! But I still think it'd be fun some day! Smile

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game! And my buddy STEVESPRO!

posted by enrique [2077 posts]
13th January 2014 - 13:15

3 Likes

enrique wrote:
Ok, how about this? Next year you can only pick 'unique' teams at the start of a competition. Meaning the first one to pick a certain team has 'rights' to it if they 'register' it first... This would only hold for the first day of a competition, of course! Smile If you assemble a team that's already been picked, you could get a message that says "This team has already been picked, please change a rider in your team". Yeah, it's a pretty ridiculous idea, but it'd be kind of cool to have everyone start off with a different team Smile I know... It's kind of crazy, but it might be fun! Smile Please don't take it too seriously.... Just trying to have some fun while the competition opens Smile

If we did that, then maybe it could be like a draft concept, where the competition winner from last year get the first choice, etc... So obutterwick would get first crack at the first Tour de Romandie team...

Of course, this would be a nightmare to program... You'd also have to wait for people to pick their teams if you did it in draft order... And you'd probably have to have stats that show you how many teams already have that rider, so, forget it! But I still think it'd be fun some day! Smile

That, enrique, is the worst idea I've ever heard Big Grin

There's far too few riders in any given race to support unique teams unless you're running some kind of small draft competition within leagues. Think about it, there are between 180 and 220 riders in a race, that gives between 20 and 25 teams (ignoring budget issues) to go between 5000+ players...

That's not something the game supports (league specific rules or competitions) and it's a big departure from what the game already does.

A single race or year long draft game has been suggested before and I can see it's merits but it's not what the road.cc game is and I don't think enabling that would add a huge amount for the players who already play the game.

I know that a forum topic has popped up a while ago from someone running something similar on a separate forum and I think that's maybe what you're looking at needing to do if you want to play that.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
13th January 2014 - 13:21

3 Likes

enrique wrote:
Ok, how about this? Next year you can only pick 'unique' teams at the start of a competition...

drheaton wrote:
That, enrique, is the worst idea I've ever heard Big Grin...

Ok, I know. I agree! Smile ....

drheaton wrote:
... there are between 180 and 220 riders in a race, that gives between 20 and 25 teams (ignoring budget issues) to go [with]...

Granted. Big Grin But just for fun, hear me out on this particular point. I think I misled you by what I wrote. What I meant was not that a rider could only be used once, draft-style, but that you could only use a combination of riders once.

So, for example, for last year's Vuelta you could have this team picked first:

40.0 Alejandro Valverde
29.1 Vicenzo Nibali
20.9 Daniel Moreno
14.3 Nicolas Roche
12.9 Christopher Horner
9.5 Leopold Konig
9.0 Michael Matthews
7.8 Daniele Ratto
6.1 Maximiliano Ariel Richeze

But no one else could have that same combination, so the next person could have the exact same team but, say, switch, for example, Richeze at 6.1 for Haimar Zubeldia at 3.0.

Essentially, it would be the same team, save for one rider. That way it would make thousands of team combinations within budget possible... Still, a crazy idea and impractical, but, again, just having fun. Big Grin

Thinking I think it might work in a league competition Thinking Almost like in the Pick 3 Competitions, where it's almost, by default, he who posts a team first is almost guaranteed that no one else will pick the same team... Thinking

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game! And my buddy STEVESPRO!

posted by enrique [2077 posts]
13th January 2014 - 14:50

2 Likes

there's not a lot of point in continuing a suggestions/requests for 2014 thread when the game has already launched, really is there?

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7700 posts]
13th January 2014 - 14:53

4 Likes