TDF Stage 8 Castres --> Ax 3 Domaines

by Ghedebrav   July 5, 2013  

Hello mountains! Big Grin

Getting in early with this as I'm out on a ride tomorrow AM. I've enjoyed the Tour up to now, but this stage is the first one I've put a big circle round in the calendar.

So does anybody dare reveal their plans? Who has saved their transfers? Who are we tipping for the win?

I won't say who I've picked, but I will say that I've gone for a spread of a few mid-20 guys rather than a big GC feller. I reckon Contador will go for the win, but fancy Rolland to crest the first HC climb in the lead. I'm basing these predictions on absolutely nothing, by the way.

122 user comments

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Pure class? lol.

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
6th July 2013 - 20:38

2 Likes

northstar wrote:
Pure class? lol.

I take it you disagree ? Never mind there's always one.

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

stumps's picture

posted by stumps [2839 posts]
6th July 2013 - 20:41

1 Like

stumps wrote:
northstar wrote:
Pure class? lol.

I take it you disagree ? Never mind there's always one.

LOL, none to blind as those who don't want to see.

You're in the minority if you think that was normal it seems.

Blinded much?

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
6th July 2013 - 21:25

1 Like

northstar wrote:
stumps wrote:
northstar wrote:
Pure class? lol.

I take it you disagree ? Never mind there's always one.

LOL, none to blind as those who don't want to see.

You're in the minority if you think that was normal it seems.

Blinded much?

Oh dear, how sad, never mind. Lets hope he goes on and wins by a massive margin just to really wind you up Rolling On The Floor

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

stumps's picture

posted by stumps [2839 posts]
6th July 2013 - 23:33

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LOL now pretending it winds me up.

I just find it very sad and anyone who defends it.

If he does go onto win it, i won't recognise it.

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
7th July 2013 - 3:56

2 Likes

stumps wrote:
northstar wrote:
stumps wrote:
northstar wrote:
Pure class? lol.

I take it you disagree ? Never mind there's always one.

LOL, none to blind as those who don't want to see.

You're in the minority if you think that was normal it seems.

Blinded much?

Oh dear, how sad, never mind. Lets hope he goes on and wins by a massive margin just to really wind you up Rolling On The Floor

I notice you can't answer my points and probably never will ; )

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
7th July 2013 - 3:56

1 Like

I said in an earlier post that I do not like Froome... I quite simply do not like the guy's demeanour, he comes across as being smarmy to me and I never really believe what he says..... Couple that with his NEAR disregard for team orders with Wiggo last year, and that is why I will never completely trust him...

Yesterday to put that much time into the worlds top climbers on the first lumpy day on the tour is a little suspicious in my opinion...If it was 10 or 20 secs fair enough but with that margin I shall remain a little sceptical....

However, my fingers are crossed that time proves my suspicions wrong....and to be totally hypocritical, he is now in my team.... Raised Eyebrow

The G Fan Club...

STEVESPRO 79's picture

posted by STEVESPRO 79 [507 posts]
7th July 2013 - 5:33

2 Likes

northstar wrote:

I notice you can't answer my points and probably never will ; )

what are your points? i scrolled up but basically it seems to boil down to 'LOL' - is there more?

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7492 posts]
7th July 2013 - 7:36

1 Like

Dave, he doesn't like me because i'm a Police officer and has to make sarcastic comments on virtually every comment i make.

I assume its a game to him, if not then he needs help Big Grin

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

stumps's picture

posted by stumps [2839 posts]
7th July 2013 - 7:56

1 Like

It has nothing to do with you being a police officer, get over yourself.

You're the one who needs help with your blind faith in the above.

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
7th July 2013 - 8:00

1 Like

I notice you are still avoiding the real issue and think it's all about you, bit like the subjects of the topic it seems.

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
7th July 2013 - 8:09

2 Likes

but what *are* your points?

i think it'd be naive to not approach a ride like that with some cynicism. it's equally naive to take one stage – and the first mountain stage even more so – as incontrovertible proof of doping.

as it is quite often, the most reasonable response is here: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2013/07/froomes-first-mountain-performan...

Quote:
Let's wait to analyze the entire Tour, the collection of climbs, and then compare to history's known dopers. The problem when you get too close in is a kind of "performance pixelation", so step back and see the whole screen. That will happen in time.

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7492 posts]
7th July 2013 - 8:29

1 Like

It's clear what I think of the performances, if i put it on here i'd only be getting myself and (maybe?) your website in trouble (which I don't want too obviously) - silly laws I know but there you go.

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
7th July 2013 - 8:33

1 Like

Could it just be that the other top climbers have now just *stopped* doping?

And what about Quintana? Is he doping too? TBH I just don't see any point tying yourself in knots trying to distinguish doped performances from great performances. Of course there's always doubt in cycling because of the history of the sport. But really if you're going to call out every outstanding performance with snark and innuendo, why even bother watching?

Ghedebrav's picture

posted by Ghedebrav [1101 posts]
7th July 2013 - 8:37

1 Like

So I should stop watching because of one team? right.

The fact that stumpy is attacking me for disagreeing with him says a lot, why he think it's because he is a PO is bemusing.

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
7th July 2013 - 8:40

1 Like

Quote:
And what about Quintana? Is he doping too?/

Go and ask Movistar, why do you think I know? I just have my opinions like everyone else.

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
7th July 2013 - 8:42

1 Like

I hardly think that stumps is attacking you.... Confused

The G Fan Club...

STEVESPRO 79's picture

posted by STEVESPRO 79 [507 posts]
7th July 2013 - 8:49

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Ok, attacking is perhaps the wrong word but he is very defensive over team sky / chris froome for whatever reason.

He won't address the issue, just thinks it is all about himself it seems.

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
7th July 2013 - 8:51

2 Likes

Froome's ride was very impressive but it hardly came out of the blue, he's been doing that for two to three years and Contador is nowhere near the rider he used to be.

Your comments of 'that was good wasn't it *nudge nudge wink wink*, are helpful without something to back it up. Doping is an issue in cycling and will always be an issue but at some point you have to accept what you see.

Either you accept that Sky are just ahead of the curve when it comes to coaching and legitimate race preparation (which I do, cycling was crazy previously with individual riders responsible for their training in a totally unstructured way) or you think that Sky are running a US Postal style doping system for their top riders because that's surely the only way Sky and Froome could be that good right?! (sarcasm)

For what its worth I don't like Froome. Wiggins was nowhere near the rider Froome is and that as why I liked him, he made the best of what he had whereas Froome is a bit like Contador, very very good to the point of it being unfair on the rest of the peloton.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
7th July 2013 - 9:19

1 Like

stumps wrote:
northstar wrote:
stumps wrote:
northstar wrote:
Pure class? lol.

I take it you disagree ? Never mind there's always one.

LOL, none to blind as those who don't want to see.

You're in the minority if you think that was normal it seems.

Blinded much?

Oh dear, how sad, never mind. Lets hope he goes on and wins by a massive margin just to really wind you up Rolling On The Floor

A rider who was not even rated by Sky 2 years ago (proof: Sean Yate's comment in the Eurosport Studio yesterday after the stage), who was hardly able to blow a paper bag apart (never mind a whole top-class and probably partially doped peloton) before he joined Sky, flies up a an 8km, 8%+ gradient climb at near 'EPO-era' speed, and 'EPO-era' Watts/Kilo levels (according to early estimates), and will also likely crush the field in the time trials - remind you of anyone? I don't think it's sad to have suspicions, in fact, I think anyone who wants cycling to be clean needs to be very suspicious about that performance - made more suspicious by the fact that his domestique glided over the finish in 2nd place (by some margin). Was nobody reminded of the US Postal years by that performance - or, can everything be explained away by the fact that Sky are a British team, therefore must be clean?

posted by daddyELVIS [453 posts]
7th July 2013 - 9:34

1 Like

After the race Froome could hardly speak from the effort and you have to look at the competition he faced as well:

Evans - to old
Schleck - completely lacking in everything
Valverde - poss to old
Contador - not the same rider after his drugs ban
TJ - nursing an injury
Quintana - burnt himself out on the earlier climb

Then look at todays stage, Sky lost all their team even Porte yet Movistar still have 3 in the top 10 so does the finger start pointing to them now Thinking

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

stumps's picture

posted by stumps [2839 posts]
7th July 2013 - 18:46

1 Like

Froome suffered from a parasitic illness that was undiagnosed for a time. Explains his inconsistent results at that time.

meursault's picture

posted by meursault [20 posts]
7th July 2013 - 19:02

1 Like

Keep telling yourself that.

posted by northstar [1110 posts]
7th July 2013 - 19:30

1 Like

stumps wrote:
After the race Froome could hardly speak from the effort and you have to look at the competition he faced as well:

Evans - to old
Schleck - completely lacking in everything
Valverde - poss to old
Contador - not the same rider after his drugs ban
TJ - nursing an injury
Quintana - burnt himself out on the earlier climb

Then look at todays stage, Sky lost all their team even Porte yet Movistar still have 3 in the top 10 so does the finger start pointing to them now Thinking

Hardly speak? - sure he was dripping wet, but he spoke OK, and certainly didn't look like he was due to collapse or anything. And Porte looked like he could do it again (which makes his stage 9 performance very strange).

Forget the competition - look at Froome's numbers on that climb; it doesn't matter who was behind him, his numbers were in super-human territory.

Sunday's stage - could Sky possibly have had a warning from ASO to calm down, because questions are being asked. Look at Froome's answer to the doping question after stage 8 - he never once said that he has never doped.

Cadel Evans, after stage 9 called it 'bizarre' that a team could blow-up like that so early on in a 3 week race - it just doesn't happen (and shouldn't happen to a team that apparently trains harder and better than the rest - ha-ha, Brailsford even regurgitates the US Postal explanation, he's just wrapped it up in a new sound-bite - 'marginal gains').

Let's see how Froome goes in the first time trial - logic says that the guy who gets up the mountains the quickest, and has got his weight down to skeletal levels, shouldn't power over a 33km time trial (rolling - flat) the quickest, but I'm willing to bet he'll be top 3.

posted by daddyELVIS [453 posts]
8th July 2013 - 22:48

1 Like

Logic - that's why we all love sport so much. FF bloody S.

chrisdstripes's picture

posted by chrisdstripes [1648 posts]
8th July 2013 - 23:02

1 Like

chrisdstripes wrote:
Logic - that's why we all love sport so much. FF bloody S.

I've never seen Boardman, Cancellara or Martin fly up mountains like Froome. Of course logic comes into cycling.

Lets wait until Wednesday - if he's not top 3 on that time trial, then perhaps my suspicions have little validity.

posted by daddyELVIS [453 posts]
8th July 2013 - 23:21

1 Like

This is a fantasy cycling forum and not the place to be having these kind of discussions.

Its clear what everyone's opinion is but at this stage that's all it is, opinion.

No one here can prove anything, we're all working off assumptions and guesses, we know nothing concrete. As such there's no real point continuing this discussion because nobody's opinion will be changed as there's no information out there that will change it.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
9th July 2013 - 5:44

2 Likes

daddyELVIS wrote:

Forget the competition - look at Froome's numbers on that climb; it doesn't matter who was behind him, his numbers were in super-human territory.

you have his numbers? what are they?

unless you back up a claim like that with the numbers, and explain them, it's nonsense. you have every right to be sceptcial and the sport's past means the modern riders have to accept they'll be suspected. but you don't do yourself any favours by claiming someone's performance is 'superhuman' based on the fact that they won.

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7492 posts]
9th July 2013 - 7:00

1 Like

Let's see how the 2nd best time trial rider flies up Ventoux on Sunday. He might be instructed to hold back for fear of ending-up with a ridiculous winning margin in Paris.

posted by daddyELVIS [453 posts]
10th July 2013 - 22:23

1 Like

stumps wrote:
... he doesn't like me because i'm a Police officer...

I used to be a Police Officer, albeit a Military Police Officer! Smile

northstar wrote:
It has nothing to do with you being a police officer, get over yourself...

You talking to me?... You talking to me?...

stumps wrote:
...I assume its a game to him, if not then he needs help Big Grin

northstar wrote:
... You're the one who needs help...

I'm the one who needs help! But who's offering it? A tenner anybody? Big Grin

I can't believe I missed all this fun! Smile

(Sigh!) Yawn

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1795 posts]
11th July 2013 - 6:34

1 Like