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Well, here I go with a crazy idea.

The last week of the Giro seems to be tailor made for Premium members to stack up on transfers and come in with a bunch of sprinters on the last day... And therefore beat the crap out of any Standard player still standing!  1 I guess it would probably take a miracle for anyone playing Standard to win in this scenario.

So, how about this?  1

Dave, why don't you award ANY Standard player who is in the Top 50 in the Giro standings at that point, say Stage 16, 17 or 18, at your discretion, a 'CARRY OVER ALL YOUR TRANSFERS FOR THE LAST WEEK OF THE GIRO' card as a reward for being in the running at the end of the competition?

I can't imagine there'll be too many Standard players left in the running at that point and it would certainly reward a smart player who's broke!  1

On the other hand, if not that, why not give the Top Standard player for the Giro a FREE Premium membership as a prize at the end of the competition? Sounds nice to me!  1

Or maybe you could award a Free Premium membership for next year, to the 4th place, or whatever position that does not get a prize at the end of a competition, whether they are Standrad or Premium? Just for fun! Will you think about it? Thanks!  1

48 comments

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drheaton [3318 posts] 2 years ago
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I honestly don't see the carry forward as that much of a bonus. There are not many points in the race where you'll want to keep back two or three days worth of transfers and if your are doing that then you'll be falling behind the guys changing their teams to suit the terrain.

Following the terrain, picking guys on form or chasing jerseys, making small adjustments to your team, will keep you in the running. Planning to save up 10 transfers will lead to you losing loads of ground and being nowhere near the top 100 come the last week.

You continue to make a big deal out of this but I don't see it as a massive issue, a premium player will most likely win the Giro and no doubt you'll say it was because of the transfers but in actually fact its because more of the better players are premium.

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drheaton [3318 posts] 2 years ago
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I've just had a quick look at the parcours for the race and actually, I see no point where I'd be happy keeping my team the same for three or four days running. I don't see the carrying forward of transfers being that much of a differentiator at all to be honest.

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STEVESPRO 79 [531 posts] 2 years ago
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Well said drheaton.....enrique it seems to me like you always want more...... for paying nothing....  46

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TERatcliffe26 [4465 posts] 2 years ago
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drheaton wrote:

I've just had a quick look at the parcours for the race and actually, I see no point where I'd be happy keeping my team the same for three or four days running. I don't see the carrying forward of transfers being that much of a differentiator at all to be honest.

Im struggling to work out how to save up any for the ITT in week 1, as It goes from flat(ish) to MM for a couple of days then back to flat, so to be able to save up enough that it would be more than carrying over 1 or 2 (as a standard layer can do) is very unlikely, and as you say in the case that you did you would fall behind.

I do however think using penalty points as a tactic could occur in this race being at 10 credits, especially before the ITT and also to get in someone 1/2/3 in the GC, of the Hesjedal, Nibali ilk etc, on a mountain stage if for some reason he wasn't in the stage before.

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dave atkinson [6145 posts] 2 years ago
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If you come fourth, enrique, I'll give you a free premium membership next year. Deal?

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northstar [1108 posts] 2 years ago
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Can you just give him one for the rest of this year to keep him quiet?

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enrique [2255 posts] 2 years ago
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Dave Atkinson wrote:

If you come fourth, enrique, I'll give you a free premium membership next year. Deal?

That's a good deal, Dave! Thanks!  1 I'll give it a go!  1 But, the truth, I still think it would be a great prize to offer to the Top Standard player in the competition, not just for me!  1

drheaton wrote:

I've just had a quick look at the parcours for the race and actually, I see no point where I'd be happy keeping my team the same for three or four days running...

Well, tactically speaking, I beg to differ...

Stage 16 is, if you ask me, a transitional stage, with a Cat 1 at the 70K mark and a Cat 3 with 18K to go in it. It has breakaway written all over it. You could technically keep your team from Stage 15, which is right before the rest day, and score enough points to keep in the running. You could techinically bank your 4 transfers from the rest day that day. And if you had a nice team for Stage 14, you might be able to bank those and bank 6 after the rest day. You know that sometimes chasing after the breakaway guys is a haphazard bet and sometimes just keeping the GC guys on your team turns out quite nicely.

Stage 17 is a flat finish, but how many sprinters teams will be willing and ready to chase down a breakway that day? Especially if a lot of the sprinters leave the race? Maybe you could bring in 2 sprinters, or gamble on a breakways artist or two, but, again, you might do quite nicely to just leave the guys high on GC on your team.

Then Stage 18, Stage 19, and Stage 20 are a Mountain Time Trial, A Cat 1 summit finish and another Cat 1 summit finish. Again, if you had the right team you could sit pretty on those and you could bank anywhere from 6, 7, 8 or more (!) transfers. Then you could bring in 6 or more sprinters on the last day, compared to only the 4 sprinters, at most, a Standard team player could bring in, and you'd have a feast!  1

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stumps [3186 posts] 2 years ago
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northstar wrote:

Can you just give him one for the rest of this year to keep him quiet?

For once we actually agree on something  3

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drheaton [3318 posts] 2 years ago
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enrique wrote:
drheaton wrote:

I've just had a quick look at the parcours for the race and actually, I see no point where I'd be happy keeping my team the same for three or four days running...

Well, tactically speaking, I beg to differ...

Stage 16 is, if you ask me, a transitional stage, with a Cat 1 at the 70K mark and a Cat 3 with 18K to go in it. It has breakaway written all over it. You could technically keep your team from Stage 15, which is right before the rest day, and score enough points to keep in the running. You could techinically bank your 4 transfers from the rest day that day. And if you had a nice team for Stage 14, you might be able to bank those and bank 6 after the rest day. You know that sometimes chasing after the breakaway guys is a haphazard bet and sometimes just keeping the GC guys on your team turns out quite nicely.

Stage 17 is a flat finish, but how many sprinters teams will be willing and ready to chase down a breakway that day? Especially if a lot of the sprinters leave the race? Maybe you could bring in 2 sprinters, or gamble on a breakways artist or two, but, again, you might do quite nicely to just leave the guys high on GC on your team.

Then Stage 18, Stage 19, and Stage 20 are a Mountain Time Trial, A Cat 1 summit finish and another Cat 1 summit finish. Again, if you had the right team you could sit pretty on those and you could bank anywhere from 6, 7, 8 or more (!) transfers. Then you could bring in 6 or more sprinters on the last day, compared to only the 4 sprinters, at most, a Standard team player could bring in, and you'd have a feast!  1

If if and if, your whole theory is based on someone fluking a set of picks that isn't going to happen and the race playing out in exactly one way.

I could pick 9 guys and then they come could top 9 on every stage. It could happen, it sure as hell won't but it could, and therefore I get to bank 40+ transfers, woohoo!

Anyway, your reading of the stages is nowhere near the same as mine.

15 is a summit finish GC shoot out,
16 is a medium mountain small bunch finish or breakaway

If you're chasing finishing places then you'll make a couple of changes, if you're happy to bank GC points then you'll stick to your big guns but either way you'll be making changes for 17, a sprint stage. 17 will most likely come down to a sprint because there aren't that many flat days in the race and Cav et al will want to make the most of any potential sprint finish.

But by all means leave your climbers from stage 15 in for this one, you'll lose around 60 points on everyone else around you for the sake of banking two transfers in your hypothetical race (two transfers that'd only cost you 20 credits as penalties) but go for it, whatever.

Soooooo, if for some unknown reason you just abandoned 16 and 17 to the dogs in favour of keeping your stage 15 team just for the sake of banking four transfers then yes, you make or may not have the perfect team for 18, but as it's a TT it's likely you'll want a slightly different bunch of riders from your stage 15 team.

But for the sake of your argument let's not bother to change your team, let's just roll on to 19 and 20. Both are summit finishes like 15, both require similar riders although, for this, let's ignore the fact that some people will be coming in, or falling out, of form and also some people may at this point be stage hunting or more suited to a particular stage (de Gendt last year for example).

So, basically, yes, you can roll up 8 or more transfers if you want to ahead of the last sprint stage. That'll maybe boost you up by 50 or 60 points on the last day at most (less if you test it against people using penalties) but you'll drop 200+ points on the days before unless a set of circumstances so unlikely happen that the best thing you can do is go out and buy a lottery ticket immediately.

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northstar [1108 posts] 2 years ago
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Sadly, yes.

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livestrongnick [2118 posts] 2 years ago
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 35 enrique strikes again!
Give him the premium but on 1 condition; No more forum threads for the rest of the season, just posts on other peoples threads  45

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TERatcliffe26 [4465 posts] 2 years ago
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Thanks Dr for writing the kind of response I couldn't be bothered to write

For a start the focus of your argument enrique is based on an extreme that the majority of players would not adhere to regardless of the possibility. With your outlook being too simplistic (as if certain riders will finish certain stages in certain positions, so Cav would win a flat stage, a breakaway will win a transitional stage, Nibali will win a summit stage) however that is not how it works, races are unpredictable and you need to react to that. Id like to see you carry out that plan against a standard player who doesn't bank transfers, and i bet you wouldn't win.

You would only need to look at the way people played Romandie last week, I can tell you that over 3 stages with a very similar profile (where in your eyes you would bank transfers) I made all 6 transfers and was unable to save any, without doing so I would have been a large amount of points down (albeit some didn't pay off and may have cost me overall), with 2 transfers for stage 3 brought me in 47 points alone.

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iammarcmason [47 posts] 2 years ago
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drheaton]
[quote=drheaton

wrote:

If if and if, your whole theory is based on someone fluking a set of picks that isn't going to happen and the race playing out in exactly one way.

Aw that was my entire strategy..!

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dave atkinson [6145 posts] 2 years ago
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enrique - you can bang on all you like about the transfer rules, and whether they favour premium players or not. but they're not going to change this season. if you want the extra flexibility of being able to bank extra transfers, you know where they are, and they'll cost you a tenner, like everyone else. up to you if you think it's worth it.

it won't make any difference to me. there's never a stage i don't have to use all my available transfers, and often more. ever.

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TERatcliffe26 [4465 posts] 2 years ago
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I think one of the biggest reasons for people not being premium is interest throughout the year, a fair few will come on just for the grand tours and will thus not see the need for premium membership. I can't see people who would want to be premium not being premium based on point 3. that you make.

As for the rest that follow cycling throughout the year will be premium (obviously I don't know exact numbers) as they will play the game alongside following races, and if you don't want to its easy enough to put together a team without much thought. Also the added factor of running, and the challenge of doing so, a purist team without having to sacrifice making transfers for the whole year is a big plus of the premium membership.

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enrique [2255 posts] 2 years ago
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Dave Atkinson wrote:

enrique - you can bang on all you like about the transfer rules, and whether they favour premium players or not. but they're not going to change this season. if you want the extra flexibility of being able to bank extra transfers, you know where they are, and they'll cost you a tenner, like everyone else....

Don't get me wrong, Dave, as much as I enjoy 'banging', I'm actually pretty jealous I can't afford a Premium Team right now.... I will! Eventually!  1

As far as my perspective of how the race might unfold, I guess my point is that maybe, just maybe, the last week people might be better off having, if you will, a Purist team for that last week, instead of chasing the breakaways... Therefore my yearning to be able to bank all my transfers and see if it might work, and (!) whether I'd be bold enough to try it (!)  1

Of course, I am probably wrong (!)... But that doesn't stop me from voicing my excitement that it could be done! So, of course, I will keep a close eye on the scores that last week to see if it would have been possible!  1

There's people here that have played much (!) better than me... I mean, I got No. 5 overall in the the Qatar competition, but I couldn't have done that without the extra transfers everyone got on the last day!  1

I will probably bring in 2 sprinters for Stage 17, but, as conservative as I play, I might be tempted to leave the rest of my squad alone, if (!) I have a great scoring team for Stage 15 (!)... But, like all of you I probably wont (!)  1

I enjoy this place, and this game (!) a lot! I really do... The truth is I'm addicted, like many others and, honestly I just wonder if a 'perfect' team could be cooked up to do what I'm considering (leaving the team intact on the last week except for Stage 17)...

Will it work? Probably not (!), but don't get me wrong, I just enjoy putting my thoughts out there...

As far as getting a Free Premium membership, well, I just think it would be a great prize for the Top Standard player in a competition.

I can't imagine why anybody would play Standard except for three reasons: 1. You can't afford to spend the money right now, 2. You don't see any advantage to it or 3. You like the challenge of playing with more restrictions... I firmly stand behind reason No. 1  1
And I can't imagine that a Free Premium membership wouldn't put a smile an anyone who's playing Standard right now! Especially if you fought tooth and nail for it as a prize!

Regardless, I will play. I'm a huge fan!  1

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enrique [2255 posts] 2 years ago
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TERatcliffe26 wrote:

Thanks Dr for writing the kind of response I couldn't be bothered to write...

This may sound hypocritical, but, thank you, too, dr, ... I enjoyed seeing your perspective...  4

TERatcliffe26 wrote:

I can tell you that over 3 stages with a very similar profile... I made all 6 transfers and was unable to save any... some didn't pay off and may have cost me overall...

Dave Atkinson wrote:

... it won't make any difference to me. there's never a stage i don't have to use all my available transfers, and often more. ever.

Both points well taken...

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sm [369 posts] 2 years ago
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I'm a standard purist player because I don't have the time to pick teams every day. I've considered signing up just to get the badges element (everyone loves a badge!) but I just know I'd be too tempted to play with that second team and enter more competitions. The money I can afford, just not the time!

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obutterwick [474 posts] 2 years ago
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I thought we'd had a few weeks without this raising it's head again.

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enrique [2255 posts] 2 years ago
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enrique wrote:

...I guess it would probably take a miracle for anyone playing Standard to win in this scenario....

I stand corrected. 11 Stages in and these are the highest ranking Standard Players in the Giro overall competition...

3 petiagos petiagos 1155
4 Pharmacie Roulant Jonas Lorenzen 1144 2
5 Eyeballs Out richardk9 1135
6 Mountain Renegade tony kappler 1127 2
7 Gilbert and Sullivan Gilbert and Sullivan 1124
8 karlake2 karlake2 1122 3
9 ZACATON anita 1115
10 Indurains lungs Samacollins 1105 7
11 rock n rouleurs matanhale 1099 8
12 Team Velosive Sebbe87 1094 4
12= Rangaedge Rangaedge 1094 11
14 Team Sky Blue NeilG83 1092 8
15 mischelka mischelka 1086 5
15= Hinaults Uno Hinaults Uno 1086 3
17 Eds Ripley Riders Eds Ripley Riders 1084 11
18 Guybrush Threepwood 2MeterPeter 1083
19 ProVelo ricycle 1080 4
20 pclark007 pclark007 1076 12
21 Got Milk TheDoctor 1074 5
21= CPT RACERS KIEF77 1074 7
23 Lampre-LSD ewen 1073 4
24 Polski Grifter Club PolishDave 1072 9
25 Klefbet.com kleff 1071 1

Pretty impressive!  1

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ray silvester [1836 posts] 2 years ago
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4th place Jonas Lorenzen is a premium player?

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enrique [2255 posts] 2 years ago
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enrique wrote:

... The last week of the Giro seems to be tailor made for Premium members to stack up on transfers and come in with a bunch of sprinters on the last day... And therefore beat the crap out of any Standard player still standing! I guess it would probably take a miracle for anyone playing Standard to win in this scenario...

Ok, so the last week is here... And these are the Standard Players left standing in the Top 25:

Overall Ranking Team Team Owner
2 Mountain Renegade tony kappler
4 rock n rouleurs matanhale
7 petiagos petiagos
8 Polski Grifter Club PolishDave
11 Guybrush Threepwood 2MeterPeter
13 Eyeballs Out richardk9
14 Chute Collective Chute Collective
15 Indurains lungs Samacollins
17 Rangaedge Rangaedge
20 BaggyBoy999 BaggyBoy999
23 Leipheimer not weeks memories of meseeuw

I have to admit there are way (!) more Standard Players up there in the Top 25 than I expected! (11/25)  1 So maybe, banking transfers is realy not that (!) much of an advantage!  13

Now, it would be cool to know how may people will start banking transfers, how many will use all 4 rest day transfers, how many will bank 2 for Wednesday and how many people will be able to bank any more than 4 for the last stage... But, of course that would be giving away your strategy  1

So, if you're up to it, I would love to hear how many transfers you end up saving for Sunday! Thanks!  1

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drheaton [3318 posts] 2 years ago
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I have banked 90 transfers and intend to make 12 every day for the rest of the race.

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stevemarks [458 posts] 2 years ago
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Maybe it's just me but I'm not sure I have managed to bank and use more than 2 transfers yet all season! It's a nice thought but I usually seem to find a transfer or two I want to make each day.  2

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enrique [2255 posts] 2 years ago
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enrique wrote:

... I can't imagine there'll be too many Standard players left in the running at that point [this week}...

I could never have imagined how wrong I was going to be (!). The top spot and the No. 3 spot are being held by Standard players right now! Wow!...

enrique wrote:

... Stage 16 is, if you ask me, a transitional stage... You could technically keep your team from Stage 15, which is right before the rest day, and score enough points to keep in the running. You could techinically bank your 4 transfers from the rest day that day. And if you had a nice team for Stage 14, you might be able to bank those and bank 6 after the rest day. You know that sometimes... keeping the GC guys on your team turns out quite nicely...

On the other hand, keeping their team from Stage 15 and banking transfers turned out pretty nicely for STEVESPRO and drheaton!  1

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stumps [3186 posts] 2 years ago
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Enrique, i still cant get over the fact you have so much interest and passion for the game but cant find a tenner to play premium, the mind boggles, it really does mate.  39

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drheaton [3318 posts] 2 years ago
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I can't get over how much he requotes himself.

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drheaton [3318 posts] 2 years ago
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drheaton wrote:

I can't get over how much he requotes himself.

I know, tell me about it!

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enrique [2255 posts] 2 years ago
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drheaton wrote:

I can't get over how much he requotes himself.

drheaton wrote:

I know, tell me about it!

 21 Ha ha ha ha ha! Good one!  1

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enrique [2255 posts] 2 years ago
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TheBigMong wrote:

...so yeah, sometimes you just gotta do... nothing.  4 ...

Gkam84 wrote:

...took in Cav, Mezgec and Nizzolo for Uran, Nibali and Rollin today. Didn't lose to much, but...  14

Heh heh!  1

enrique wrote:

Well, tactically speaking, I beg to differ...

Stage 16 is, if you ask me, a transitional stage... You could technically keep your team from Stage 15, which is right before the rest day, and score enough points to keep in the running...

Stage 17 is a flat finish... but, again, you might do quite nicely to just leave the guys high on GC on your team...

 21 Ha ha ha ha ha! Bow to the wisdom of enrique... Anybody care to argue against the foresight of the strategy I spelled out three weeks ago?  21 Hah ha ha ha ha!

Bow down, drheaton, bow down STEVESPRO, notwithstanding your recent stage win! Then again, maybe I should shut up, after all, at last call, I was No. 591 in the competition and you were No. 54 and No. 195 overall respectively!  39 So what?  21 Ha ha ha ha ha!

Ok, so I'm a little deluded... Changing over to Visconti or Navardauskas, especially (!) Navardauskas, or Mezgec would have definitely done you good yesterday and today(!), but (!) all the same... it wasn't such a bad or bold idea to leave the team unchanged if you were Premium or (!) Standard (!)  1 Just kidding, of course... Blowing off all the frustration of not being able to play Premium...  12

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