Rider Names

by enrique   March 18, 2013  

Francisco Jose Ventoso (Movistar) appears in the game as Fransisco Jose Ventoso. I'm pretty sure his name is spelled "Francisco" not "Fransisco".

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Don't even get me started on Joaquin vs Joaquim Rodriguez (Castilian aka 'Spanish' vs Catalan spelling). He goes by both depending where you look, and whichever I use someone will pull me up Smile

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posted by Simon_MacMichael [7490 posts]
7th April 2014 - 22:41

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
On IAM's own website its Thomas Löfkvist...

Yeah, I'm ok with that... I would honestly believe that a rider's team website, well, they should have the name down right, but Gkam prefers the UCI's spelling... so I pointed it out... but...

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
...ever thought certain names may appear differently in different languages?

No, not really, a name is a name... it would be like you calling me 'henry' because 'enrique' is Spanish for 'henry'' (or you could call me 'orli', just kidding Big Grin )... or me calling you 'Tomas' instead of 'Thomas', just because 'Tomas''is Spanish for 'Thomas' if that's your real name, so no, I don't think this is a case of names appearing differently in different langiages, I think we should use their real names... especially a last name... like Lofkvist...

Yes, Joaquin is 'Joaquim' in Catalan and (!) Portuguese, but the rider's name is 'Joaquim'... The name 'Javier' is very common, but Janier Acecedo with Garmin (http://www.slipstreamsports.com/riders/janier-acevedo/) is (!) 'Janier', a totally diferent name... 'Vicenzo' is different from 'Vincenzo'... 'Reinhardt' is different from 'Reinardt'... 'Mickael' is different from 'Mikael'... 'Alexandr' is different from 'Alexsandr'... 'Iglinksiy' is diferent from 'Iglinskiy'... Alexandr is different from 'Alexsandr'... 'Lamiosson' is different from 'Lamoisson'... 'Kuschynski' is different from 'Kuchynski'... 'Kanstantin' is different from 'Kanstantsin'... 'Luka' is different from 'Luca'... 'Tsatevitch' is different from 'Tsatevich'... 'Reichanbach' is different from 'Reichenbach'... 'Ratcliffe' is different from 'Racliffe'... Some of it is just transposing letters and some of it is mistyping...

Lofkvist is probably right on the team website... That's cool... The rest, well... I'd just hate it if I was a professional cyclist and people couldn't spell my name right Big Grin But I'm not... Sad

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
8th April 2014 - 18:08

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I know what I would like to call you.....

I don't have unlimited time to get everything done. But this week at some point. I will go through ALL the names and see how the compare to the UCI lists.

The reason I use the UCI, that is the name which is on their race license. Each team can call their rider whatever they want on their own websites.

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posted by Gkam84 [8151 posts]
8th April 2014 - 18:47

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Gkam84 wrote:
I know what I would like to call you...

Your big, hunky latino 'lover boy'? Wink You know I love you, right? Smile

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
8th April 2014 - 19:09

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Quote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
...ever thought certain names may appear differently in different languages?

I have a smattering of Russian and, on the basis that names are correct in cyrillic, I read the following names:

Алексей Тсатевич - Alexey Tsatevich
Сергей Чернетский - Sergey Chernetskiy (PCS and the Katusha English translation have mis-spelled this)
Александр Кучинский - Aleksandr Kuchynski (Katusha website again disagrees)
Иглинский :: Iglinskiy (Valentin or Maxim) - The Astana's website is not the best English translation

Quote:
I'd just hate it if I was a professional cyclist and people couldn't spell my name right

Can we misspell Cadel Evans to Cuddles for that very reason?

posted by Twybaydos [191 posts]
8th April 2014 - 21:47

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Not all Russian though, are they - قازاق ٴتىلى (Kazakh) and беларуская мова aren't necessarily the same thing as Russian. They all romanise slightly differently.

posted by simon F [869 posts]
8th April 2014 - 22:02

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simon F wrote:
Not all Russian though, are they - قازاق ٴتىلى (Kazakh) and беларуская мова aren't necessarily the same thing as Russian. They all romanise slightly differently.

Kazakh Turkic is probably not relevant where all Kazakh riders have Russian names; given that cyrillic is the predominant written language of Kazakhstan. Bielorussian is relevant so as not to pronounce Kanstantsin Siutsou as Sivtsov. Kiriyenka is the same either way.

posted by Twybaydos [191 posts]
8th April 2014 - 22:44

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Twybaydos wrote:
I have a smattering of Russian... I read the following names:
... Alexey Tsatevich... Sergey Chernetskiy... Aleksandr Kuchynski...

Twybaydos wrote:
... Bielorussian is relevant so as not to pronounce... Siutsou as Sivtsov...

I'm impressed, Twy. Cool! Smile

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
9th April 2014 - 0:33

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Twybaydos wrote:
Kazakh Turkic is probably not relevant where all Kazakh riders have Russian names; given that cyrillic is the predominant written language of Kazakhstan.

True enough, except that there are a huge number of ethnic groups in the pre/post soviet countries, not all of whom remain where they came from. An awful lot of names would have been cyrillicised(?) at some point in the past and not necessarily in a consistent or "authentic" russian way.
I guess what I'm saying is that when we can't even agree on the difference between Castilian/Catalan (or Gallegan or Basque), Enrique is on a bit of a hiding to nothing in trying to define a "correct" way of spelling rider's names in a western European/American manner so the whole of this thread is a bit pointless, my posts included.

posted by simon F [869 posts]
9th April 2014 - 9:08

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Got this email today:

Sport.Technique@uci.ch wrote:

RE: Rider Names on UCI website
09:16 AM
From: "Sport Technique - UCI"
Cc:"Lambelet Emilie - UCI"

Dear Sir,

First of all, I would like to thank you for your email of 3rd April 2014 regarding some possible error in the spelling of UCI riders’ name.

We had been carefully checking the identity names of the riders you’ve pointed out and we’ve made a couple of modification in our database, namely :

Janier Acevedo – Garmin Sharp
Aleksey Tcatevich – Katusha

The other names are correct on the UCI Website, according to the teams’ statements.

Please note that names and first names can slightly vary from a language to another (i.e Catalan vs. Spanish).

The UCI website only refers to the Identity Information of the riders, according to the teams given details.

We would like to thank you again for your email as it is of a very high importance for the UCI to ensure reliable information on the UCI website.

Best regards,

UCI Sport and Technical Department.

Réf. : Route/ls

Département Sport et Technique
Sport and Technical Department
Union Cycliste Internationale
CH - 1860 Aigle
Tél: +41-24.468.58.11
Fax: +41-24.468.58.12
www.uci.ch

Sport.Technique@uci.ch wrote:
Please note that names and first names can slightly vary from a language to another (i.e Catalan vs. Spanish).

Unprofessional bastards! Big Grin

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
9th April 2014 - 16:27

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LOL, oh enrique, enrique, you certainly are a stickler for detail.

posted by northstar [937 posts]
9th April 2014 - 17:13

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Jesus, you emailed the UCI about it.... Silly Silly Silly Silly Silly Silly

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posted by Gkam84 [8151 posts]
9th April 2014 - 17:18

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So they have now misspelled Tsatevich to match the misspelling on the Katusha website.

**Genius**

posted by Twybaydos [191 posts]
9th April 2014 - 17:41

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Twybaydos wrote:
So they have now misspelled Tsatevich...

Is there a difference in pronunciation between one spelling and the other?...

northstar wrote:
...you certainly are a stickler for detail...

I am... I like my things prim and proper... Smile I had a proper English upbringing with a proper English, actually Scottish, 'headmaster' and all! Smile

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
10th April 2014 - 10:04

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enrique wrote:
Twybaydos wrote:
So they have now misspelled Tsatevich...

Is there a difference in pronunciation between one spelling and the other?...

Quite a lot. 'Ts' is its own letter making the sound of a hi-hat (Think Tsar). An English 'C' would not be used on its own in Russian instead the hard 'K' sound is used and written as such. 'CH' is only translated for a 'ch' as in church and to distinguish between a 'KH' sound (e.g. Khabarovsk) which is more like clearing your throat to release a 'Docker's Omlette'.

Plus Tsatevich's twitter handle is @TsatevichAlexey and his English looks good enough to be relied upon to spell his own name.

I think you'd better grovel to the UCI Enrique admitting your mistake

posted by Twybaydos [191 posts]
10th April 2014 - 13:01

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enrique

Two things:

1) You should be an accountant

2) You should have an upper case E on your name

posted by Joelsim [236 posts]
10th April 2014 - 13:12

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Twybaydos wrote:
... admitting your mistake
Grovel, sir? Admit my mistake? Me? I will do no such thing! I beg to differ, sir. I, sir, do not make mistakes Big Grin I refuse to do such a thing, of course! Big Grin

Because of this below, sir. Here's what I wrote to them:

enrique wrote:
I... wanted to point out some differences in the rider names as they appear on the various team websites and the UCI website.

... The following are riders whose names I think have may have been misspelled. I apologize if I am mistaken.

Alexey Tsatevitch is Alexey 'Tsatevich' on the Katusha website. The last name has no 'T' on the website.

http://www.katushateam.com/the-pro-team/alexey-tsatevich/

Javier Acevedo should be 'Janier' Acevedo. Javier is the most common name, but the rider's name has an 'n' in the middle rather than the more common 'v'.

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/riders/janier-acevedo/

Ion Izaguirre's last name on the Movistar website is Ion 'Izagirre', with no 'u' in it.
(http://www.movistarteam.com/equipo/ion-izagirre)

His brother, Gorka, of course, also has the same last name.
(http://www.movistarteam.com/equipo/gorka-izagirre)

Thank you!

An apology is expected, kind sir. Big Grin

Twybaydos wrote:
...Tsatevich's twitter handle is @TsatevichAlexey... his English looks good enough to be relied upon to spell his own name.

I will write them back, of course. But there is no mistake to be admitted to on my part Big Grin In fact, you (!) sir, are mistaken about my being mistaken and should come 'groveling' to me admitting your mistake about my being mistaken (!) Thinking

Joelsim wrote:
... You should be an accountant...

I'm an old, useless bureaucrat, at heart, fond of tradition and things done properly and, of course, of doing the proper thing. We're a relatively useless family, you see, my grandfather was a government bureaucrat, my father is a lawyer and I, well, I used to teach, so, you see, we quibble about the tiniest of things in a constant effort to upstage one another... Truly useless but highly entartaining Big Grin And we have fun doing it! Smile

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
10th April 2014 - 22:29

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Sport.Technique@uci.ch wrote:
Please note that names and first names can slightly vary from a language to another (i.e Catalan vs. Spanish).

*Sigh* We are (!) in the Basque Country today.

Take a look at No. 18 below Waiting

PV 1.png

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
10th April 2014 - 22:29

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Ok, here are the corrections (below) in a zipped file and in an image...
If you'll upload the Pro Continental Teams I'll be happy to take a look at those, too... I'm going to have to write the UCI again, 'cause I think they have mistakes I hadn't noticed before... You surpried me... I noticed you had already fixed a few... About 'Tsatevich', I'm writing the UCI with what Twy mentioned so I'd just take out the 2nd 'T'...

Roadcc Rider Name Corrections.jpg
AttachmentSize
Roadcc.zip 13.43 KB

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
17th April 2014 - 22:39

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So the red names are the ones that need changed?

I know the none UCI ones are fine. They have just been added.

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posted by Gkam84 [8151 posts]
17th April 2014 - 23:35

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Gkam84 wrote:
So the red names are the ones that need changed?

Yep. The red ones are the ones that should appear in the game, the ones from the UCI. It´s clearer in the spreadsheet. And oops, I thought I had left this one out, but its there…

enrique wrote:
Steven Cummings in the game is 'Stephen' on the UCI website

I´ll be glad to look at any other rider lists you have...

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
18th April 2014 - 3:46

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If in any doubt, check the rider's twitter. That's what they want to be called aside from Enrique's diligent romanisation of names

posted by Twybaydos [191 posts]
19th April 2014 - 1:24

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I don't care what they want to be called. They could put their twitter name to "um bungo in the jungle" I'm not going to change it to that.

All world team riders should now match up to the UCI listing.

Conti teams will get done next week if I can find the time.

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posted by Gkam84 [8151 posts]
19th April 2014 - 6:55

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I can confirm that there is no cyclist of that name on twitter. I found...

Your search - twitter @umbungointhejungle - did not match any documents.

J Andrew Hill

Its a marathon, not a snickers

...

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posted by JAndrewHill [1154 posts]
19th April 2014 - 8:06

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JAndrewHill wrote:
I can confirm that there is no cyclist of that name on twitter. ...

Heh heh Smile

Gkam84 wrote:
All world team riders should now match up to the UCI listing. Conti teams will get done next week...

Party Woo hoo! Yeah! Thank you, Gkam! I'll be more than happy to check the Pro Continental team list next week… I think that includes 'Kevyn' or 'Kevin' Ista, who I'll probably write to the UCI about, too..

Twybaydos wrote:
If in any doubt, check the rider's twitter. That's what they want to be called...

I agree with you Twy… But source wise, well, crap, I understand G's insistence on using the 'official' source… Though I would trust you more than the UCI or even the teams!

Astana, for example, writes on its team site that the team had a Classics 'brakethrough' (http://proteam-astana.com/2013/12/24/classics-brakethrough/)...

You seem to know a lot about Russian… I've been wondering how you picked it up? Family? School? Locals? Thinking

Anyways, just like you said:

Twybaydos wrote:
… I think you'd better grovel to the UCI… admitting your mistake

and I took offence to that, I also take offence to you speaking of my :

Twybaydos wrote:
...diligent romanisation of names...

I take offence to that. You can characterise my efforts as 'diligent' but you may not characterise them as a 'romanization' of names, kind sir. I am not taking creative liberties with translations, my dear Twy, I, sir, am merely reporting discrepancies I have found on the names of riders between how they appear on their team website and the game start list. You, sir, are claiming the knowledge to know how a language is being rightly or wrongly translated, sir, not I, and though I applaud your knowledge, I do not take kindly to your characterisation of my efforts. *hrumph*.

When, oh, when, will you decide to 'grovel up to me' with an apology for twisting my 'words' and 'actions' ? I'm waiting for it, kind sir. Please, sir, do not ignore this simple request. You, sir, sound like a proper and reasonable individual. I, sir, think it not unreasonable that you apologise for your behavior. That in itself, sir, would say a lot about your manners and upbringing, kind sir, and, it would mean a lot! Waiting

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
19th April 2014 - 12:52

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There appears to be a fault with updating.

This forum is suggesting that it's 2 hours and 27 minutes since enrique last posted.

Could someone look into this please?

posted by Joelsim [236 posts]
19th April 2014 - 15:22

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Joelsim wrote:
... Could someone look into this please?

I'm sorry, I was eating a late breakfast, I'm back now...

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
19th April 2014 - 16:59

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Joelsim wrote:
There appears to be a fault with updating.

This forum is suggesting that it's 2 hours and 27 minutes since enrique last posted.

Could someone look into this please?

Where do you think he got his 1100 posts from ????

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

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posted by stumps [2432 posts]
19th April 2014 - 20:22

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stumps wrote:
Where do you think he got his 1100 posts from ?

I'm trying to catch up and you're making it extremely difficult by responding to each and every one of my posts Waiting

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
19th April 2014 - 22:03

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Gkam84 wrote:
...All world team riders should now match up to the UCI listing...

They look beautiful! Applause I am so happy... Party

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posted by enrique [1111 posts]
20th April 2014 - 3:02

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