The Case for Non-Expiring Tranfers for Standard Users Too

by enrique   January 8, 2013  

Well, I don't expect a lot of sympathy, but I thought I'd post this as a stand-alone thread just to see if anyone thinks this merits any support.

Here's my original post on the "All I Want for Christmas" thread.

Dave Atkinson wrote:
Premium players can roll over an unlimited number of transfers, and their transfers don't expire.

nickobec wrote:
option 1 makes some big changes to game play and fairness IMHO.

option 2 gives an big advantage to premium players if they plan well.

I agree...

drheaton wrote:
Not that it makes much difference to how the game plays...

I think it makes a huge (!) difference! Premium players can use transfers in a significantly different way in Grand Tours! Over three weeks I think it can make a [game-changing] difference! : (

... Dave, would you consider making it a level playing field between the Standard players and the Premium players? At least for the Grand Tours? Like nicko says, it's almost like playing with a handicap.

Some of us play just for fun, and are ok with not winning the Grand Prizes, but would still like to to be competitive and not feel we're at a competitive disadvantage from the get go, especially come Grand Tour time...

I think playing without being able to bank transfers the same way would [give Premium] players... a game-changing [advantage over Standard] players, especially over a period of three weeks.

I can imagine, for example, [as Dave mentions in the "Fantasy Cycling is back for 2013" article] coming into the last week of the 2013 Tour, a Premium player who has banked a ton of transfers will be able to come to the last Time Trial stage, Stage 17, and bring in 2, 3 or 4 more Time Trialers for that stage, turn his team around for the 3 upcoming mountain stages, bank transfers for two days, and then, maybe also (!) be able to bring in 2, 3 or 4 more sprinters for the last stage in Paris than a Standard player could.

I think deploying that strategy would kill just about any Standard team that was still in contention that last week.

I don't mind not winning the bike, but I'd like to get a shot at winning the competition on equal terms.

Premium players are already getting a shot at the bikes and all, why should they also get such a great advantage, which becomes especially more significant over the course of three weeks? It just feel unfair...

[I know it is what it is, but it feels like letting a sprinter buy a 5 second advantage in a race]... I don't think it's a level playing field.

It feels like Standard players will be a tier below the Premium and it will not feel like the same game for both levels... In fact, it isn't, since it's different rules...

I don't think you're matching wits fairly, especially during the Grand Tours, between Standard players and Premium players, when Premium players have such a significant advantage in the form of [being able to make a better use of their transfers and, especially, not losing any] transfers...

It really let the wind out of my sails... : ( It may fall on deaf ears, but I'd love it if you made the transfer rules equal or more equitable, even if it was only for the Grand Tour competitions. Thanks! :

*********

Obviously I expect most people to say, just pay your dues, dude! : )

14 user comments

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this year everyone's playing for the main prizes, there's no premium only game in the big races. that means you can rock up as a standard player, have a go for free and walk off with a bike in one of the grand tours.

if you pay your tenner you get better stats, more sort options and a better deal on rollover transfers. all of those things could make a difference to your score. soon you'll be able to mark riders you're watching and make notes about them, which will help you even more. you'll also be able to play for other leagues in the grand tours, specifically KOM and sprint lagues, if you want. on top of that you get the achievement badges to play for, 12 extra tours and two teams on one account.

what we've tried to do is make the premium game better value, and give you more for your tenner, as well as giving you a slightly better shot of winning one of the prizes. if you still don't think it's worth it – even just counting the non-premium competitions it's only 8p a stage – then that's your call. if you want, you can just compare yourself to the other standard players, or set up a league with the people you're *actually* competing against and all agree to play standard.

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posted by Dave Atkinson [7309 posts]
8th January 2013 - 15:55

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Dave Atkinson wrote:
... if you want, you can just compare yourself to the other standard players, or set up a league with the people you're *actually* competing against and all agree to play standard.

That's a good idea you bring up, Dave. That's pretty cool. I know I'm probably asking for too much right now, but, would you consider setting up an automatic league for all people that are playing Standard for later in the year, maybe for the Grand Tours? Thanks!

I wish I could enjoy the non-expiring transfers without paying for them, 'cause you can plan out a Grand Tour better, but otherwise I have to admit it's a hell of a game and I love it! The game is simply awesome! Thanks!

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1683 posts]
8th January 2013 - 16:58

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I wonder if the non-expiring transfers will have a big effect on the Tour Down Under, the Tour Mediterean, the Volta Algarve and the Tours of Qatar and Oman...

Dave, once the races get underway, can you tell us how many teams were Standard and how many were Premium per race?...

With the new non-expiring transfers, I would bet that a Premium team will win all 3 Grand Tours... Maybe even have all Top 10 spots for all competitions...

Does anyone know they are going to play Standard and want to join a league for Standard players only? Or, Dave, like I said above, could an automatic league be opened up later in the year for people who played Standard?

Anybody else, like nicobec, maybe (?), want to take publicly take on the challenge of just playing Standard? : ) Anyone bold enough let me know to see if it's worth seting up a league! I'll porbably set it up anyeays, to see what happens... Thanks! Smile

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1683 posts]
11th January 2013 - 12:06

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You will be able to see who is premium and who is standard, as those who are premium have a P in a red box next to there team name in the standings.

I cant see non expiring transfers having as big a difference as you seem to think they will.

Just because people have the option to save up transfers does not mean that it will be an advantage in terms of scoring points. People may save up transfers but miss out on scoring big points because they didnt make a transfer.

Also it may be that premium take the top 10 spots in a grand tour, but that doesn't mean it is due to the transfer system at all, also the proportion of players may make a difference.

I think your getting rather caught up in what is likely to be a non-event in most races.

Its only a tenner if you really want that transfer rule, only £1 a month which is nothing these days, as well as nearly twice as many races

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3860 posts]
11th January 2013 - 12:25

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Agreed, the winners of all three grand tours last year were premium (I think) and the same rules applied. Just saying they'll win because of the transfers is missing the point that generally the people who think they have a shot at the win were premium last year and will likely be again this year.

I also agree with TERatcliffe26, it's a tactical option to save/use the transfers but actually it may be better to use them as you would as a standard person. This year's tour in particular has more mixed terrain so we're not in a position where there are 10 flat days where you can save all your transers then splurge them on a TT and mountain stage. To get the big points you also have to:

a) pick the right team for the first stage because getting it wrong puts you at a massive disadvantage

b) keep up with whoever is going for the breaks

That means that skill will play the biggest part in a) and you'll need to keep spending transfers on b).

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
11th January 2013 - 12:41

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enrique wrote:
With the new non-expiring transfers, I would bet that a Premium team will win all 3 Grand Tours...

that happened last year anyway, so i'd say it's a reasonably safe bet. premium players tend to be the more serious ones with more time to throw at it

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posted by Dave Atkinson [7309 posts]
11th January 2013 - 13:47

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Enrique I understand that in these difficult times it is sensible to watch what you do and don't spend money on. I applaud you for obviuosly not throwing a tenner at a game and using it for something more important. Many others wouldn't. You make considered arguments and I can tell you appreciate Road CC and the game.

The point I want to make is Road CC are in business to promote something they are passionate about (cycling) and make money. If they didn't make money they wouldn't be able to provide the great Road CC website etc and share their passion. They need to charge a fee to develop the Fantasy Game and improve it for everybody, which they cleraly have done. But they are also considerate enough to include all those like yourselves who don't want to or can't afford to pay which is a sign of their passion and wanting everyone to enjoy cycling and all that goes with it. Such as this game.

I think the game this year is pretty much perfect. Road CC has listened to all the advise on this forum and incorporated as much as they can and granted most of our wishes within reason. For those who are willing to pay of course they expect a bit more. It wouldn't be fair to pay and not get anything extra than the free game. But I am greatful that the free game is provided. It means the game and cycling as a whole is as it should be- accessable to anyone who wants to do it.

I hope this doesn't sound like a rant or patronising. I just feel that Road CC and this game provides a fair and reasonable compromise between standard and premium and for that we should be appreciative.

posted by letsgoup [139 posts]
11th January 2013 - 23:09

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
I cant see non expiring transfers having as big a difference as you seem to think they will... I think your getting rather caught up in what is likely to be a non-event in most races.

I think you're right for the week long stage races and the one day races, but, honestly, I think we'll see the difference in the last week of the Grand Tours, when you can save up for the time trials and the final sprint stages and the Standard teams can't make as many changes.

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Just because people have the option to save up transfers does not mean that it will be an advantage in terms of scoring points. People may save up transfers but miss out on scoring big points because they didnt make a transfer.

You're right.

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Its only a tenner if you really want that transfer rule, only £1 a month which is nothing these days, as well as nearly twice as many races

I'm hoping I'll be able to go premium in the next few weeks. After all this banter, and all the great comments, I'm hyped and sort of convinced I want to play with the non-expiring transfers for the Grand Tours. I just can't afford it right now, so I'll have to wait.

In the meantime, for anyone interested, I did set up a Standard only league called Standard Players. The league ID is 76269.

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1683 posts]
12th January 2013 - 12:31

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Hmm, I think I would prefer a system where premium players were the only ones eligible for the prizes but played under the same rules (happy for them to have more stats, because everyone could do that research for themselves, but agree that rolling over transfers could provide a big advantage that can't be accessed any other way) but regardless the game is fun and I enjoy it, so thanks. And I fully see the justification for charging for it, and for offering something more in return for that money. As it is I am on a tight enough budget with enough other priorities that the tenner for this won't happen for me, but I keep coming back to the site because of the game. And I will sign up for the standard player's league if it happens!

I'm riding the 2013 Giro d'Italia for charity! Check it out and follow my progress live at www.tourletour.com

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posted by Tour Le Tour [91 posts]
14th January 2013 - 12:19

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Tour Le Tour wrote:
Hmm, I think I would prefer a system where premium players were the only ones eligible for the prizes but played under the same rules...

I agree. I'm ok with missing the chance to win the bike but would love to play the game exactly as the Premium players will. I agree being able to plan when to use transfers will not win you the game, rider selection probably will, but... for some strange reason I can't really explain, being on top of that leaderboard gives me quite a thrill! Smile

Tour Le Tour wrote:
And I will sign up for the standard player's league if it happens!

The league is up and running. The league is called Standard Players and its ID is 76269! Smile

letsgoup wrote:
... You make considered arguments and I can tell you appreciate Road CC and the game.

Thanks, lets, appreciate that! Smile

letsgoup wrote:
... I think the game this year is pretty much perfect... I... feel that Road CC... provides a fair and reasonable compromise between standard and premium and for that we should be appreciative.

Yeah, it truly is exciting, fun and beautiful!

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1683 posts]
14th January 2013 - 18:55

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... I cant see non expiring transfers having as big a difference as you seem to think they will....

Alas, I have been proven wrong once again in my assumption that having nonexpiring transfers give an unfair advantage to Premium Players in this competition...

4 of the 5 Top Spots in the competition are held by Standard Players. Here are the Top Standard Players and their spot in the Overall ranking:

1 Radio Bank    guinunes
2 VeloHuman Pro Cycling    Dux89
3 Guitariff    Guitariff
5 Team Velosive    Sebbe87

Sadly, I will no longer be able to claim any competitive advantage to Premium users. But I still wish I had them...

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1683 posts]
8th July 2013 - 15:22

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pay then! I'm not sure if you know how much £10 is in dollars but it's just a smidge under $15!

posted by rcorbin [208 posts]
8th July 2013 - 18:55

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enrique wrote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... I cant see non expiring transfers having as big a difference as you seem to think they will....

Alas, I have been proven wrong once again in my assumption that having nonexpiring transfers give an unfair advantage to Premium Players in this competition...

4 of the 5 Top Spots in the competition are held by Standard Players. Here are the Top Standard Players and their spot in the Overall ranking:

1 Radio Bank    guinunes
2 VeloHuman Pro Cycling    Dux89
3 Guitariff    Guitariff
5 Team Velosive    Sebbe87

Sadly, I will no longer be able to claim any competitive advantage to Premium users. But I still wish I had them...

With the rapid changes in parcours there has been no advantage in rolling over transfers. In fact as a premium player I've actually taken 6 pens when I thought it was worth the risk. Later on in the third week or even some of the second there might be a little more advantage to it. But you've still got to pick the right riders.

posted by Alan Tullett [1434 posts]
8th July 2013 - 19:09

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I've never rolled over more than two transfers.

Perhaps I should've (especially for the last stage). But I can't help the tinkering...

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posted by Ghedebrav [1073 posts]
8th July 2013 - 20:29

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