Where does charity and generosity stop?

by Tinternet_tim   January 7, 2013  

Firstly I would like to start by saying I am not an internet troll and I am not setting out to knock or belittle anyone. However I have felt so strongly about the ‘Gofundme’ story which has evolved over the months to furnish 1 individual with a £3000 to £4000 trike plus £100 or maybe even £1000 of kit I feel I have to share my view and maybe add so constructive criticism.

I have read road.cc for some time now and never contributed but it is a great source of information for a sport and recreational activity I am so passionate about. I am also a twitter account user, therefore on numerous occasions I have seen plea’s to help get Keith back to cycling due to the early onset of Parkinson plus read the story he wrote about how difficult life has been since an early age.

When this story first hit my twitter feed I contacted Keith directly and expressed my sympathy for his recent diagnoses as I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, however I did question his ethics as to whether he should think about his current lifestyle and selling some of his toys and gadgets before asking strangers for their hard earned cash to get him another VERY expensive bike/gadget.

Keith has made his life very public by asking for this and with the information he posts it doesn’t take long to realise that cycling isn’t is only passion as he is also a guitarist, he is constantly on the internet and has a computer and a Android tablet, video camera, gorilla pod tripod type thing and he also has a smart phone and Sky tv, possibly a GPS device?, £60 - £70 of Olympics 50p!!, this is a lot for someone on benefits and who states cycling is his only passion!

Maybe my up bringing has been different, but I have always been taught to live within your means and only have what you can afford. I know so many people who work 40 + hours a week and struggle to survive without any of the luxuries Keith has acquired.

Keith is very obviously a kind and caring individual after reading his tweets and forum posts as he is very helpful to so many others, however maybe it is time to spend some of this energy on himself and look at his own life.
My own personal views are that he sees material goods as a means of making him happy and getting him back to as normal life as possible, however this will only be a shortterm fix.
I think it is fantastic that he is now looking for work and I think it will turn his life around, but maybe this should have been his first approach. If he is able to work, find work, start working, earn money and then purchase a trike, this is what he should have done. This is how 99.99% of the society works and it should be the same for him.
Why does he need the trike over winter when Scotland is likely to be under feet of snow soon? The next 5 months would have been even more time to save

Are there others near Keith who have Parkinson? As this trike has been funded by the generosity of others. Could the use of the trike also help others rather than just 1 individual? Is there a Parkinsons society near where Keith lifes where those with the conditions could hire the trike when it is not in use?
This would help more people and also give all those that use it greater freedom and also enjoy the activity we are all so passionate about. If all those that use the trike become enthusiasts it will give them the motivation to save and purchase their own trike!

If I am being brutally honest, I have read Keiths Gofundme page and he sees himself as a victim as he has tried things but keep quitting because things got difficult and he has continually been supported by society or others without taking responsibility for his own actions whether that is free accommodation, free sky tv and now free trike and the relentless gifts he has received over the last few months.

What happens if the £3000 trike brakes or is damaged or if ‘god forbid’ it is stolen, will there be another plea to the cycling community to help? Is it insured ?

Also, I have noticed that recently he has posted comments about ‘where can I buy x, y and z’ and on numerous occasions he has been sent these items free. Please think long and hard about this approach as peoples goodwill and generosity will reach a limit (please take this comment on board).
I have also noticed that he has been sent items that don’t appear on the auction list, i.e. Castelli clothing, an action video camera etc, if he is truly honest that his only passion is to get back cycling he will put these items up for auction/sale and donate the funds to charity. I am sure Parkinson or MIND charities will greatly appreciate the donation to help lots of people rather than just 1.

Also, he really needs to look at his lifestyle, If he REALLY wants to become employable he needs to get into a routine, not staying up until 5am in the morning on twitter and the computer and sleeping all day. Take all your tech out of your room, get to bed at a reasonable time and up at 8am, this will get you into a routine which will support a working life.

Keith, as I have said earlier, I think you are such a giving person and helpful and kind to others, but please don’t see FREE materialistic things as the way to happiness, it will not solve anything in the long run.

As someone who has also suffered from ill-health in recent years and as a result anxiety and depression I understand some of what you are going through. Maybe this has been part of my motivation to spend some time writing this and why I feel so strongly about my comments. It appears I am the only one with these views and I hope I don’t get my account suspended for these comments. As I said at the start it is not meant to be harmful or a personal attach. All I want is fairness and maybe to get EVERYONE to look at themselves and others and what is right.

Please everyone continue this amazing generosity that we have seen over the last few months, but maybe to help communities and groups rather than 1 individual.

Regards
Tim

51 user comments

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Knickers are well and truly twisted now.

I hope we get to see video evidence of the trike in action soon, Gkam shouting, 'out of the way, plebs!'

Between the S and the LOW

bikeboy76's picture

posted by bikeboy76 [1191 posts]
7th January 2013 - 21:50

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Neil, I am so sorry that my post reads badly and goes to far. This certainly wasn't the intent.

As I have said before, my post wasn't intended to be abusive, I was hoping it would make people think about options they have and potential life changes or sacrifices I would have considered.
And finally I was hoping that maybe a donation of the value that has been seen on this occasion would go a long way to change several peoples lives and not just 1 person.

I sincerely hope that there my original post (however badly worded it was) has something in it that Keith can take from it.

2014 Ride100 London Sportive
http://www.justgiving.com/Sponsor-Tim

posted by Tinternet_tim [74 posts]
7th January 2013 - 21:51

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Tim, your intentions seem to be good and you make some good points, but without knowing Keith personally there are a lot of things in your original post that you shouldn't comment on.

posted by NeilG83 [225 posts]
7th January 2013 - 21:59

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Dear Tim
Thnak you for your generous offer of a £100 But i'd much rather Keith kept the camera
Cains mum

I'm only here for the cake

Dizzy's picture

posted by Dizzy [61 posts]
7th January 2013 - 22:15

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Stop posting, Tim, because the hole you're digging keeps getting bigger every time you post. Whatever your intention, your posts read as petty and mean-minded.

I donated to Gkam's appeal because I wanted and could afford to. Guess what? I have also donated to quite a few other appeals, on those occasions to charitable groups.

posted by paulfg42 [374 posts]
7th January 2013 - 22:54

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Tinternet_tim wrote:
If you add it to the auction I will donate £100 to benefit Cain as I am sure it will help towards changing his life when he is potentially unable to do anything about it.

anyone explain to me how this is materially different to donald trump's '$5m to charity if you show me your birth certificate' at obama?

if you've got £100 that you can give to Cain, and you want to give it to Cain, then give it to Cain. attaching some kind of demand to gkam that he has to give up something he's been given as a gift in order for someone to receive some money that they really, really neeed makes you sound a bit, well. best if I don't carry on that sentence.

Barry Fry-up's picture

posted by Barry Fry-up [187 posts]
7th January 2013 - 23:08

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Tinternet_tim wrote:

So, how is this for a deal. Although that the video camera was a gift to you, this is something that you could add to the auction and then save with your own money to buy yourself a cam?

If you add it to the auction I will donate £100 to benefit Cain as I am sure it will help towards changing his life when he is potentially unable to do anything about it.

Hi Tim

Why dont you donate the £100 to Cain's appeal ANYWAY without Keith doing anything with the cam. It might be now that YOU are thought to be blowing your own trumpet saying that you are willing to donate £100 IF Keith sells his cam.

nige

formereve's picture

posted by formereve [65 posts]
7th January 2013 - 23:14

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As Cain's mum has said above and to me in private aswell.

Keep the camera, It was offered to me after I tweeted asking if anyone had one and what they thought of it, not asking for one. Just for an honest review. I was then kindly offered one that someone had in their cupboard after they bought a Go Pro.

It was offered to me on the understanding I would be using it to make future videos about me and my trike, to keep others informed.

I will go further into Cain's situation when myself and others are ready to do so, but getting him a bike suited to his needs will be the outlet for anything thats been donated to the auction and the left over from my appeal.

So by starting the ball rolling helping me, others will also be helping him, I then hope to keep that ball rolling, where myself and Cain's mother can find another child who may need help and then any left over money would continue to help others.

Have been looking into setting up a charity just for this, but it seems alot easier to keep it personal and fund raising, rather than a charity situation.

As I said, more details will come.

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8699 posts]
7th January 2013 - 23:18

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So Tim, now that Keith's appeal is out there, does that mean he's not entitled to keep personal gifts? What's next, auction any Christmas gifts from his granny as well?

As for the ultimatum with the cam, well let's put it this way: I disagreed with your original post, but could see what you were trying to say, so I posted a considered and detailed answer, but now? Now I just think you're a selfish, jealous arsehole who's suddenly revealed a manipulative train of thought.

Last night I would have considered trading a very loud baby for a really nice bike.

posted by notfastenough [2965 posts]
7th January 2013 - 23:48

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Ok, digging stopped, posts stop.
I have very obviously made some extremely inaccurate assumptions and made a complete d1ck of myself.

I wish everyone all the very best
Tim

2014 Ride100 London Sportive
http://www.justgiving.com/Sponsor-Tim

posted by Tinternet_tim [74 posts]
8th January 2013 - 0:36

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Don't need to stop posting Tim, hang around, its a nice community here, this may not have been the best of introductions to the forum.

You have raised some valid points, which I hope I have answered.

Did you play the fantasy game at all last season? Check it out if thats something you might enjoy?

I don't hold grudges nor should anyone for this thread. Wink

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8699 posts]
8th January 2013 - 0:56

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Yes, don't stop posting Tim… if GKam had stopped posting the first time he caused… ahem, a bit of a stir in these parts his post count would barely have got out of double figures Wink

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posted by Tony Farrelly [4132 posts]
8th January 2013 - 1:02

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Exactly, I can remember a few times where i've thought about stopping posting or had a dispute with someone, but everyone has differences of opinion now and then.

It shouldn't stop anyone from posting or being part of the community, as I said, its like a big family here, brothers and sisters argue now and again, Tony, Dave and the other parents see us right in the end Wink

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8699 posts]
8th January 2013 - 1:07

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Yeah, like how I think that Robert Peston is the only man that can lead this country out of the depths of the recession, dignity intact.

It would be boring if there wasn't stuff like this to b*tch about.

You wait until some idiot starts a helmet debate again.

Sir Velo

Raleigh's picture

posted by Raleigh [1728 posts]
8th January 2013 - 1:16

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Everyone has there own opinion and forum's encourage people to express it. Whether you feel the OP was right or wrong, by commenting then you are doing the same that he did, expressing an opinion.

I do wonder if he was a regular poster / well known character (ie. like Keith is) if he'd have got the same response?

My opinion is that he'd not - more than likely in the same way that Keith would have a far less helpful response if he signed up and launched an appeal before anyone knew him. (well, erm, 'knew' as in the internet sense of the term I guess!)

So Tim, stay around, join in, etc. As mentioned above Keith hasn't always seen eye to eye with everyone. Same can be said of most users here I am sure.

If anything, should anyone had harboured similar feelings but not felt confident or happy about posting them, well Keith has (hopefully) explained a few points.

Maybe I have missed loads but I am not sure who Cain is btw? (or was that discussed on Twitter?)

Taking one of the OP comments on board - purely a suggestion - but maybe Keith would have a role for say a Parkinson's charity as a motivation speaker or a face of what you can achieve despite set backs, etc - in that way he'd be giving back?
Win/Win situation there as far as I see. But again that is purely an opinion!

posted by Super Domestique [1592 posts]
8th January 2013 - 10:23

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I've known Cain and his mum for many years and could contribute to this debate in many ways, but choose not to.

Debate - That, I think is the important word here.

We should thank Tim for raising points (however initially offensive or badly worded you may feel they are) that should be aired - it allowed both GKAM and Dizzy to contribute and display their sincerity and humility both for themselves and on behalf of Cain. And thank you also to Dave and Tony for affirming Road.cc's position and support.

We live in a world where we constantly have to justify our selves and our actions.

Society would not be what is it without skepticism, it's one of the basic principals of human philosophy, as it freedom of choice.

Thank you, Tim - you are a good human being and your further posts have hopefully stopped some of us from making the some rash statements. We have no more right to make assumptions about you as anyone else (and IF assumptions are made, they should, in a civilized world be considered as opinions and not empirical fact)

I will say one thing regarding a point Tim rasied, though - Some great movements charity movements have been driven by single personalities (I'm not going to mention the L-word here) but the Anthony Nolan Trust is one cause close to my heart.

This could be the nucleus of a movement to inspire mobility cycling.

andylul's picture

posted by andylul [412 posts]
8th January 2013 - 14:28

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Raleigh wrote:

You wait until some idiot starts a helmet debate again.

Tim, stick with us, its good to talk Big Grin

Raleigh, have you seen my latest article ??? Rolling On The Floor Rolling On The Floor

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

stumps's picture

posted by stumps [2677 posts]
8th January 2013 - 16:40

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yer, almost fell for it, I got really worked up Devil

Sir Velo

Raleigh's picture

posted by Raleigh [1728 posts]
8th January 2013 - 17:55

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Thanks to all those forum members (especially Keith) who have encouraged me to stick with it even though my comments were so badly received.
And thanks to those who have seen and commented on some of the positive and constructive comments I was trying to make.

I think I will continue to watch from a bit of a distance and follow the cycling world and your bike chat as more of a silent participant and I don't want to offend any others with my views.

I try and live my life and learn from life experiences. My opinion and direct approach and hard stance doesn't always sit well people and I will take that from the above episode. I hate the thought that I have offended individuals and your close knit community and as I have said on numerous occasions this honestly wasn't my intention.

Hopefully there isn't anything in the above that has caused further offense to anyone, but if there is how about letting it go and let this thread come to a close and slowly disappear down the forum.

2014 Ride100 London Sportive
http://www.justgiving.com/Sponsor-Tim

posted by Tinternet_tim [74 posts]
8th January 2013 - 22:43

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Never mind mate i always put my foot in it ! dont know how many times i've apologised Big Grin

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

stumps's picture

posted by stumps [2677 posts]
8th January 2013 - 22:53

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I'm glad you are going to stay around Tim, I used to come on the forum a long time before I started posting and getting involved.

I started out just playing the game and enjoying it. I entered a schwag (giveaway) on here and won a book about cycling, started reading it and getting more involved in posting on the forum, been here just under two years.

Come on here most days and see if I can help others out in their help posts, reply to a news story or blog here and there. Look at the new reviews.

Sometimes tweet the guys who post the news a link here and there to possible stories they might follow up on. Just get involved where I can to help be part of what makes the site great.

I hope you join up and have a try of the fantasy game, its what gets more users involved on the forums than anything else. Wink

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8699 posts]
9th January 2013 - 2:15

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If only Lance Armstrong could learn a thing or two from Tim about apologising graciously.

Smile

OldRidgeback

posted by OldRidgeback [2132 posts]
9th January 2013 - 12:58

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This is a healthy chat.

Never be frightened of an argument, but keep an open mind. Like Frank Zappa said "A mind is like a parachute, if it isn't open, it doesn't work". Fair play to everyone for their comments. It actually makes me proud to be a cyclist and a human being seeing people act like adults.

....this is the opposite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyKofFih8Y

One word of advise, steer clear of the underpants/chamois argument, you just never know who might be reading.

posted by Colin Peyresourde [1092 posts]
9th January 2013 - 14:14

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OldRidgeback wrote:
If only Lance Armstrong could learn a thing or two from Tim about apologising graciously.

Smile

+1, fair play Tim. Stick around, there's one or two (only one or two, mind) here who just seem like trolls with some of their comments, but honestly-held views are welcome regardless of whether others agree with them.

Last night I would have considered trading a very loud baby for a really nice bike.

posted by notfastenough [2965 posts]
9th January 2013 - 14:40

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Tim wrote "Maybe my up bringing has been different, but I have always been taught to live within your means and only have what you can afford. I know so many people who work 40 + hours a week and struggle to survive without any of the luxuries Keith has acquired."

With you all the way Tim. I can't afford such luxuries and I am toiling away on behalf of you all in the employ of the Secretary of State for Transport trying to make the roads a safer place.

I see far too many people sufferng from "benefit dependancy" who are surrounded by gadgets/toys/material whatsits that they only have because the tax-payer is bled through open wounds to pay for them.

I don't hanker after such goodies - it just gauls me to know that I am paying for somebody else's

Keep posting Tim.

Your comments have not offended me in the slightest.

posted by Littlesox [89 posts]
12th January 2013 - 22:40

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When did this turn into the Daily Mail letters page?

posted by paulfg42 [374 posts]
12th January 2013 - 23:37

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I think we need to remember there is a difference between someone who cannot work or who is limited to what work they can do by an illness or disability & is therefore in receipt of Disability Living Allowance to someone who chooses not to work & to live off benefits.
I'm pretty those that are in the first catorgory would love to be able to go out & get a full time job, rather then be stuck at home & therefore have NO choice but to claim the meager benefits they are entitled to.

I'm only here for the cake

Dizzy's picture

posted by Dizzy [61 posts]
13th January 2013 - 17:22

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paulfg42 wrote:
When did this turn into the Daily Mail letters page?

When somebody started harping on about how badly off they were.

posted by Littlesox [89 posts]
13th January 2013 - 23:03

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Littlesox wrote:
paulfg42 wrote:
When did this turn into the Daily Mail letters page?

When somebody started harping on about how badly off they were.

I thought that was you. Thinking

posted by paulfg42 [374 posts]
15th January 2013 - 0:01

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I will go into more detail shortly about Cain and his situation, but here is something I wrote up when someone asked about donating an item.

So here you go, rip into this till your wee hearts are content.

http://textsave.de/?p=154526

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8699 posts]
15th January 2013 - 1:19

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