Petition: For Pat McQuaid to resign & UCI Cleaned Up

by Sylvanus Urban   September 21, 2012  

If you agree with it, could you all try to sign the petition here:

"World Cycling Organization UCI: For president Pat McQuaid to resign and cycling to be cleaned up"

http://tinyurl.com/PatMusgGoPetition

and pass on to as many people as you know - tweet, facebook, the lot! Thanks - Oh and once you've signed could you mention you've done so here to keep this post high / sticky on the board?

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Sylvanus Urban - you are making yourself look very silly with some of the comments your making.

Quit whilst your ahead or you will never be taken seriously on this site again. Thats my opinion, whether you believe it or not is not my problem but i hope you do.

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

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posted by stumps [2425 posts]
21st September 2012 - 23:41

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I thought I made some bad comments on this forum and got shot down something.....I'm enjoying this thread.

NO, I am not going to sign your absurd, futile, ineffectual un-intelligent, ill informed, pointless.......NEED I go on??

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posted by Gkam84 [8128 posts]
22nd September 2012 - 0:33

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drheaton wrote:
... if the UCI controlled the revenue the three grand tours and other major races generated they could reinvest it into cycling.

PLEASE tell me this is the British sense of irony I've heard so much about.

posted by The Rumpo Kid [590 posts]
22nd September 2012 - 12:14

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Quit whilst your ahead or you will never be taken seriously on this site again. Thats my opinion, whether you believe it or not is not my problem but i hope you do.

Thanks for the advice but why should "being taken seriously on this site" matter? Are you honestly suggesting my thoughts on crank bolts or interval training might be ignored because I think the UCI needs reform? If so don't worry, I'll survive in the road.cc wilderness without too much wailing and knashing of teeth.

I think the petition is a good way of applying some public pressure to the UCI given their apparently 'odd' behaviour (UK libel law filter applied) with Armstrong, Landis and Kimmage. I'd agree that it won't change cycling overnight but it may help the process of cleaning up & I'm certain it won't do any harm.

You disagree but neither you nor any of the 'antis' have really suggested a better approach. I'm willing to follow your lead if you have better ideas - if not then signing the petition will take seconds. Just for clarification its not my petition - think it was originally put together by some Aussie cyclists. Here:

http://chn.ge/Q2dfwt

posted by Sylvanus Urban [11 posts]
22nd September 2012 - 12:34

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The UCI like Fifa will do whatever it wants whenever it wants and only the Pro teams withdrawing from the system and setting up their own races etc will make them sit and think about what they are doing.

Do you honestly believe that by getting a few people, who have no weight or strength behind their views, signing a petition will get them to suddenly change the way they do everything and for the boss to stand down Thinking

If you do you must live in a very simple secluded world.

It takes an on line petition of over 100,000 signatures to just get an item even listed, never mind discussed in Parliament.

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

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posted by stumps [2425 posts]
22nd September 2012 - 14:11

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OK - Understand what you mean - as you rightly point out, I'm not simple enough to believe that a single petition will cause Pat McQuaid to quit but I do think it can help demonstrate the climate of opinion.

If I'm the delegate on the UCI from British Cycling or the head of a Protour team and I know that thousands of cycling fans (my customers effectively or at least the customers of my sponsors/financial backers) want change then I'll be in a much safer position if I demand institutional reform. Even Kings and dictators depend, in the end, on public opinion - once it begins to move, it can be an unstoppable force.

So whilst I don't imagine for a second that a single signature or even a petition of thousands can create change directly, it can help create a climate where change becomes unstoppable.

http://chn.ge/Q2dfwt

posted by Sylvanus Urban [11 posts]
22nd September 2012 - 19:52

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Sylvanus Urban wrote:
OK - Understand what you mean - as you rightly point out, I'm not simple enough to believe that a single petition will cause Pat McQuaid to quit but I do think it can help demonstrate the climate of opinion.

If I'm the delegate on the UCI from British Cycling or the head of a Protour team and I know that thousands of cycling fans (my customers effectively or at least the customers of my sponsors/financial backers) want change then I'll be in a much safer position if I demand institutional reform. Even Kings and dictators depend, in the end, on public opinion - once it begins to move, it can be an unstoppable force.

So whilst I don't imagine for a second that a single signature or even a petition of thousands can create change directly, it can help create a climate where change becomes unstoppable.

I still don't think you quite get it. The UCI is the WORLD governing body for sports cycling.

So as the WORLD population is over 7 billion now. Lets just take the 500 from the petition and stick it onto the population of the world.

7,000,000,500........NOW, do you still think that 500 signatures are going to make ANY difference to anyone in WORLD cycling??

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posted by Gkam84 [8128 posts]
22nd September 2012 - 20:35

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7,000,000,500........NOW, do you still think that 500 signatures are going to make ANY difference to anyone in WORLD cycling??

No but a petition that builds to thousands of signatures may. The UCI may claim to represent the world but in truth it represents a small fraction of its population, largely the more literate, wealthy nations in the world. Look at the start list in todays' race:

http://bit.ly/Vs0ko0

Over 90% of the riders are from Europe or N America. Even within those countries, the % that are serious cycling fans and have any interest of knowledge of the sport is a tiny fraction - lets say roughly 0.5%. So its real constituency is not 7bn but more like 0.5% x 700m - approximately lets say 3m people.

Even amongst that group, informed knowledge of the poor state of the sport is limited and natural human inertia will inevitably stop many signing. Probably more important is that few of that remaining, smaller number are even aware the petition exists but over the days and weeks to come, awareness will spread. Its possible that once a thousand or so have done so, then one of the cycling news sites may be willing to report its existence. Once that happens a tipping point is reached and signatures will balloon to many thousands. Once it becomes a news story in itself then that will put meaningful pressure on the UCI, its board and will give support and confidence to those like Kimmage, Waughters and Millar who are challenging the status quo.

Every little signature helps here:

http://chn.ge/Q2dfwt

posted by Sylvanus Urban [11 posts]
23rd September 2012 - 11:22

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Aye and Sunderland might win the premiership Rolling On The Floor Rolling On The Floor Rolling On The Floor

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

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posted by stumps [2425 posts]
23rd September 2012 - 14:16

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maybe we can fix the FIA and FIFA whilst were at it..

posted by russyparkin [550 posts]
23rd September 2012 - 17:20

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Whilst I am all for positive thinking I really do have to ask some (UK libel law filter applied) people on here, What colour are the clouds on your planet?

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posted by FATBEGGARONABIKE [481 posts]
24th September 2012 - 17:53

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I notice the petition is now closed Devil

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posted by Gkam84 [8128 posts]
24th September 2012 - 18:59

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What an unpleasant string of comments. Bloke feels so strongly about something that he takes a bit of action and he gots shot down by some snide remarks. Redolent of the treatment of Paul Kimmage. drheaton, Gkam84, stumps, you are part of the problem.

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posted by dullard [140 posts]
24th September 2012 - 19:18

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The person who started this thread did not create the petition.

So myself, drheaton and stumps are part of the problem......along with Pat McQuaid the four of us are 100% responsible for the UCI and all the doping problems that go along with it Devil

When the four of us leave, cycling will be cleaned up forever Nerd

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posted by Gkam84 [8128 posts]
24th September 2012 - 19:37

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Yeah, sorry, I'll hold my hands up, I caused Lance Armstrong to dope. I also bought David Millar his first lot of EPO.

In all seriousness the UCI as an organisation is set up to run itself, a new president is elected every 4 years. There is an election and anyone (within the UCI) can run. We may see a change of leadership next year, we may not, its entirely down to the UCI.

Look at what happened at FIFA, there were serious allegations of proper corruption (rather than just complicity/willfull ignorance of doping) yet Blatter was voted back in unopposed. Organisations like the UCI and FIFA do as they please unless there's a chance of losing money. As it stands that isn't a serious threat of that because the people who lose out financially through doping are the teams and race organisations like ASO who'll lose out on sponsorship.

posted by drheaton [3350 posts]
24th September 2012 - 20:00

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The teams and race organisation's don't really lose out either. Plus the rider can profit through the likes of book deals.

The reason no-one really loses out. MOST sponsors of teams and races are in one form or another related to cycling. Examples being bike and clothing manufacturers, component makers and cycling retailers.

If one was to drop out, lets just say because of doping, there is going to be another company willing to come in.

So for example. Team Kam (the riders being myself, drheaton, stumps and Pat McQuaid) Devil

Stumps is caught doping Angry and we lose our bike sponsor (Specialized) along with SRAM for our parts. But because we are a world tour team, there are many companies offering us their products. Pinarello and Shimano come and give us new stuff.

Stumps gets a two year ban, No problem. We just bring in another rider. He goes on to write a best selling autobiography. Then returns and we go on to support him and win all the grand tours after his ban. Devil

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posted by Gkam84 [8128 posts]
24th September 2012 - 20:18

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True. I never though of it that way. BUT, I still don't think Pat McQuaid is at fault for everything that happens in world cycling and doping issue's.

He is responsible for what goes on in the UCI though. I don't think he's doing such a bad job with it.

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posted by Gkam84 [8128 posts]
24th September 2012 - 20:52

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I disagree GKam, doping hurts the teams more than anyone else, teams struggle to get enough backing to cover costs. Some are backed by government money (Astana) or sugar daddies (BMC, Leopard), very few are self supporting. Most are backed by media companies, banks or supermarkets or energy companies. A few big doping stories scares sponsors who choose to go to 'cleaner' sports. Without sponsor backing the teams can't function and its difficult to replace a top level sponsor, just look at HTC.

Some quick googling turns up a set of the UCI accounts and some analysis for 2011.

http://inrng.com/2012/09/uci-financial-accounts-2011/

The UCI made 235,000 Swiss francs profit mainly thanks to great tax breaks for a being not for profit organisation. On the other hand, ASO makes an average of 30m a year profit (100 times the UCI).

What's my point? The UCI has no financial incentive to keep the sponsors sweet because the big sponsorship money doesn't go into their pockets, it goes to ASO. The Teams and Organisers are the ones that need to work on sponsors so they are the ones that need to push through change.

If the UCI owned the rights to the TdF, classics or Giro like FIFA own the world cup rights or champions league rights then things may be different. But they don't. That means consumerism won't work on the UCI because they're not losing anything, you can't boycott a governing body in the same way you can a chocolate bar and a petition won't change anything because what the public thinks has no consequence as far as the UCI is concerned.

posted by drheaton [3350 posts]
24th September 2012 - 20:52

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Sylvanus although I support your view that McQuaid should go I think that a more practical way to get rid of him would be to support the Kimmage Defence Fund. If McQuaid and his co-conspiritor loose their case against Kimmage then the main stream press will pick up the cause and force the big teams to view McQuaid as a liability. This may then get them finally to force the UCI to get rid of McQuaid. As other writers have said the problem with the UCI is the same as with FIFA et al, normal fans have no power.

Paul W

posted by PaulVWatts [111 posts]
24th September 2012 - 21:13

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Gkam84 wrote:
True. I never though of it that way. BUT, I still don't think Pat McQuaid is at fault for everything that happens in world cycling and doping issue's.

He is responsible for what goes on in the UCI though. I don't think he's doing such a bad job with it.

Agreed, it might not be down to him but he has been in charge when cycling seems to have finally turned a corner. And I ask again, who'd replace him? Everyone else in the UCI is surely just as tainted by the past? I also agree that the UCI now are doing better on doping, let's not forget that the Spanish cycling federation let Contador off, the UCI challenged that and got him banned.

One important thing to note from the inrng analysis on the link above (in the comments I think) is that actually the national federations are responsible for the majority of drug testing not the UCI therefore if you have issues with testing, take them up with each individual federation and WADA, not the UCI.

EDIT: on the subject of Millar's comments and the lack of an apology from the UCI I tend to agree an apology or admission that they could have done more would have helped and the UCI missed a trick failing to draw a line under the past. That's a PR gaff though and not sufficient cause to replace McQuaid.

On the other hand, if it turns out the UCI took bribes or covered up doping and continue to cover that up or McQuaid is in full knowledge of this then that changes things. You can't blame them for trying to preserve a governing body which is finally making progress against doping though, but to find out the UCI were complicit would be a body blow and set the sport back years. Someone, whether that's the current regime or the past, would need to be held accountable but I still don't see how you can blame McQuaid for things that happened a decade before he became president.

posted by drheaton [3350 posts]
24th September 2012 - 21:22

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Hang on a minute, why am i the one who has to take the drugs Big Grin

As people have already said, me included, the UCI is the same as Fifa, F1A etc etc. They stand and vote for each other and no outsider will stop that from happening.

They get to go to all the GT's and visit beautiful places all over the globe in 5* luxury so a few thousand names on a petition isn't going to make them become trapist monks and hand everything over.

The Kimmage case maybe the straw that breaks the camels back but until that happens or not i dont think we, as cycling fans, will have any influence over what they do.

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

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posted by stumps [2425 posts]
24th September 2012 - 21:35

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drheaton wrote:

On the other hand, if it turns out the UCI took bribes or covered up doping and continue to cover that up or McQuaid is in full knowledge of this then that changes things. You can't blame them for trying to preserve a governing body which is finally making progress against doping though, but to find out the UCI were complicit would be a body blow and set the sport back years. Someone, whether that's the current regime or the past, would need to be held accountable but I still don't see how you can blame McQuaid for things that happened a decade before he became president.


Lance Armstrong made "donations" totalling $125,000 (that we know about) to the UCI. When Floyd Landis told the media of this, Hein Verbruggen (current Vice President) called him a "liar". Pat McQuaid has since said that taking the money may have been a "mistake".

Question: If the money was not a bribe, why did the UCI originally deny recieving it?

posted by The Rumpo Kid [590 posts]
25th September 2012 - 15:59

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dr, gkam etc - are you being wilfully ignorant about the UCI, Verbruggen and McQuaid, money paid to them etc or you really don't know much about it? McQuaid for one thing has been within the UCI cabal for way longer than he has been president. During both his and Verbruggen's reign the UCI has consistently suppressed voices raising valid concerns about its being complicit in allowing doping and covering up (Kimmage, Dick Pound and Michael Ashenden spring to mind). And no, of course you don't have any remit at all in terms of doping in cycling - you aren't responsible if Armstrong, Millar, Contador or your own dogs doped. But your complacency about the position of the UCI is where you're part of the problem. The UCI is critical in terms of doping because the UCI is the body that is supposed to regulate cycling and how it works, including the issue of performance-enhancing drugs, dope testing (when the UCI took over testing from the AFLD for the TdF in 2009, when Armstrong came back and miraculously finished on the podium, it resulted in not one positive test and was heralded as proof positive that the 'war on doping' was being won with the first race without a positive since 2005 - 2008 had seen several CERA positives) and issuing and coordinating bans. When the regulator of a sport turns a blind to eye to the taking of these drugs and, arguably, encourages it, the situation requires righting. Just turning a blind eye and saying that you think the UCI does a pretty good job is just poor.

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posted by dullard [140 posts]
25th September 2012 - 16:36

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Spot on dullard. One can only imagine what would have happened to the case against USPS if USADA had caved in to McQuaid's bullying and handed all the evidence to the UCI.

posted by The Rumpo Kid [590 posts]
25th September 2012 - 17:14

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Dullard - we come on here for the craic and to have a laugh, sometimes even at each other and to play the fantasy game.

If a topic comes up we do or dont agree with we make our feelings known.

We dont always agree on everything but this topic seems to have united a few of us in our remarks. Now there is nothing wrong with a petition its just that a few of us dont agree thats the route to go down. It may seem to you that thats a good route then thats fine but please dont try and make us out as "part of the problem" just because we dont agree with yourself.

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

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posted by stumps [2425 posts]
25th September 2012 - 20:16

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Apologies, stumps, didn't realise it was all just a bit of a giggle. Doping, ruining riders' careers, conspiracy, embezzlement, pah! What a larf!

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posted by dullard [140 posts]
26th September 2012 - 13:39

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Ha, laugh i nearly wet myself Rolling On The Floor

According to the Oxford dictionary:

Definition of dullard

noun

a slow or stupid person: he was caricatured as a dupe and a dullard

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

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posted by stumps [2425 posts]
26th September 2012 - 17:18

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I thought it was a sort of duck.

Noli porcum linguere

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posted by captain_slog [252 posts]
26th September 2012 - 19:40

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Mallard Big Grin

If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Gaius Julius Caesar.

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posted by stumps [2425 posts]
26th September 2012 - 20:10

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Sylvanus although I support your view that McQuaid should go I think that a more practical way to get rid of him would be to support the Kimmage Defence Fund.

Agreed - I was one of the first contributors so as you say, think that can bring a lot of pressure to bear.

Completely bemused by Gkam84's comment about McQuaid:

I don't think he's doing such a bad job with it.

What about these?:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/schenk-doubts-mcquaid-has-the-credibilit...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-has-nothing-to-apologise-for-says-mc...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kimmage-receives-uci-subpoena
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-may-not-appeal-lance-armstrong-ban
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-claims-usada-has-no-jurisdiction-in-...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-im-not-trying-to-save-lance-arms...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-initiates-legal-proceedings-against-...

What more do you want? Do we actually need to find him passing out chorionic gonadotropin to the peloton before you believe there's a case to answer?

posted by Sylvanus Urban [11 posts]
27th September 2012 - 9:17

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