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If you agree with it, could you all try to sign the petition here:

"World Cycling Organization UCI: For president Pat McQuaid to resign and cycling to be cleaned up"

http://tinyurl.com/PatMusgGoPetition

and pass on to as many people as you know - tweet, facebook, the lot! Thanks - Oh and once you've signed could you mention you've done so here to keep this post high / sticky on the board?

42 comments

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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Your tiny.url is misspelled.

Oh, and this is completely pointless.

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Sylvanus Urban [10 posts] 3 years ago
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Works for me - what are you getting? How is it pointless?

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AWPeleton [3315 posts] 3 years ago
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Its like saying Cameron resign and the houses of parliament to be cleaned up. It will never happen.

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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I mean, your tiny.url says 'Pat Musg Go' rather than 'Pat Must Go', just a small thing but it's a bit sloppy.

And it's pointless because this is a large, multi-national governing body we're talking about, not a local council. McQuaid has been under fire, over doping amongst other issues, for years and is still there. If he was going to be pressured out he'd have gone by now. Also, I don't see how McQuaid, who has only been head of the UCI since 2006, can be blamed for drugs in cycling, it's an age old problem and if anything McQuaid has governed the UCI in the period where it's done most to clean up sport (or where the sport has cleaned itself up the most, not sure the UCI have been too instrumental).

The real question is why do you think an internet petition will change anything?

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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stumps wrote:

Its like saying Cameron resign and the houses of parliament to be cleaned up. It will never happen.

Agreed, it's not going to happen therefore signing your petition is pointless.

Also, chopping off the head won't do anything. If Cameron did quit as PM because you (and the internet) signed a petition to clean up politics you've still got hundred of politicians who won't change at all.

Doping is/was the culture in cycling. It's changing but change is slow. Having the head of the UCI quit because you're not happy that change is happening quick enough when it's really down to teams and riders to push through that change, is daft.

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Sylvanus Urban [10 posts] 3 years ago
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That really is unbelievably silly cynicism. Here's a suggestion:

In a democracy you can choose to vote for the least worst candidate or you can stand yourself. If you honestly believe that every politician is corrupt then your candidature would be a sweeping success.

If as, I suspect, your cynicism is actually a defensive cover for your own failure-ridden spotty existence then do buck up and sort yourself out. Being a get-up-and-go type, I sometimes go out canvassing and sentiments like yours are what I hear from the oafs with a mattress in the front garden and a fag hanging out of the corner of their mouth - always hard to know how they can think more of themselves than the average politician.

Any one go on and sign or watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55fqjw2J1vI

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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See, you're completely missing the point. We as cycling fans do not get to vote on who runs cycling!. We do however get to vote on who governs us and I quite happily vote in local, general and european elections for who I think the best candidate is. I get to voice my opinion on the ballot paper and I get a say in who runs the country. At no point do I get to choose the head of the UCI, the UCI chooses the next head of the UCI. What happens if you don't like the next one? Another petition...?

I've seen elsewhere (where you were subject to similar responses, so it's not just this forum who finds this idea pointless) that you suggested David Millar as a suitable replacement, on what basis is Millar qualified to run the entirety of competitive cycling? Do you even know what is required to be a good head of the UCI? Or are you just a bandwagon jumping fool who likes to think that a) getting highest profile member of an organisation fired will fix all it's problems and b) you can acheive this through fist shaking, tutting loudly and organising a petition and maybe a few placards?

The misconception that you, as a pleb on the internet, can exert any influence on an organisation such as the UCI is laughable and that you think that the rest of us, those who are realists and recognise the situation for what it is, are oafs suggests you are more misguided than the rest of us.

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Sylvanus Urban [10 posts] 3 years ago
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OK - So lets assume you're correct and public pressure will do nothing, which I very much doubt but let's assume.

What's your suggested course of action? How would it help?

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The Rumpo Kid [589 posts] 3 years ago
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Would the UCI be any better if Pat McQuaid were to resign? Hein Verbruggen's tenure as President saw numerous "donations" made to the UCI from people he asked us to believe got nothing in return.
The problem is not that Pat McQuaid is the unfit head of the UCI. It is that he is the head of the unfit UCI.
A better petition, and one just as unlikely to succeed, would be to request that the IOC cease to recognise the UCI as a credible, legitimate, governing body in sport.

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Sylvanus Urban [10 posts] 3 years ago
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OK - Why not start that petition - I'll sign it although the chances of success seem much lower. Deposing McQuaid is a simple vote of the cycling associations. Asking the IOC to unrecognise the UCI seems like asking Assad to denounce Ahmadinejad.

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russyparkin [570 posts] 3 years ago
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ha ha funny, if you remove the shit a turd will replace it.

no hope

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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Oh lord... getting shut of McQuaid changes nothing, he is not singlehandedly running every aspect of the sport. There are underlying problems with how road cycling is set up.and run, even changing the UCI won't fix those.

One of the main problems is that effectively control of the top races in the calendar falls with other organisations like ASO and RCS, if the UCI controlled the revenue the three grand tours and other major races generated they could reinvest it into cycling. As it stands all that money falls into the pockets of the organisers, not the sport.

Likewise, every race signs its own TV deal so revenue is concentrated on the biggest events to the detriment of the smaller races. That means great races like the San Sebastian are on the verge of bankruptcy.

As ever, the situation is far too complicated to blame one man.

Doping wise, because of the fragmentation of cycling it isn't the UCI that loses out from doping. The teams are the ones losing out on sponsorship when companies abandon the sport (HTC for example) so they have the most to lose from doping stories. That means its down to them to push anti doping for their own benefit. This is happening with teams like Garmin and Sky, its a slow process but there are signs of progress.

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AWPeleton [3315 posts] 3 years ago
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Sylvanus Urban - you are making yourself look very silly with some of the comments your making.

Quit whilst your ahead or you will never be taken seriously on this site again. Thats my opinion, whether you believe it or not is not my problem but i hope you do.

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Gkam84 [9086 posts] 3 years ago
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I thought I made some bad comments on this forum and got shot down something.....I'm enjoying this thread.

NO, I am not going to sign your absurd, futile, ineffectual un-intelligent, ill informed, pointless.......NEED I go on??

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The Rumpo Kid [589 posts] 3 years ago
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drheaton wrote:

... if the UCI controlled the revenue the three grand tours and other major races generated they could reinvest it into cycling.

PLEASE tell me this is the British sense of irony I've heard so much about.

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Sylvanus Urban [10 posts] 3 years ago
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Quit whilst your ahead or you will never be taken seriously on this site again. Thats my opinion, whether you believe it or not is not my problem but i hope you do.

Thanks for the advice but why should "being taken seriously on this site" matter? Are you honestly suggesting my thoughts on crank bolts or interval training might be ignored because I think the UCI needs reform? If so don't worry, I'll survive in the road.cc wilderness without too much wailing and knashing of teeth.

I think the petition is a good way of applying some public pressure to the UCI given their apparently 'odd' behaviour (UK libel law filter applied) with Armstrong, Landis and Kimmage. I'd agree that it won't change cycling overnight but it may help the process of cleaning up & I'm certain it won't do any harm.

You disagree but neither you nor any of the 'antis' have really suggested a better approach. I'm willing to follow your lead if you have better ideas - if not then signing the petition will take seconds. Just for clarification its not my petition - think it was originally put together by some Aussie cyclists. Here:

http://chn.ge/Q2dfwt

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AWPeleton [3315 posts] 3 years ago
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The UCI like Fifa will do whatever it wants whenever it wants and only the Pro teams withdrawing from the system and setting up their own races etc will make them sit and think about what they are doing.

Do you honestly believe that by getting a few people, who have no weight or strength behind their views, signing a petition will get them to suddenly change the way they do everything and for the boss to stand down  39

If you do you must live in a very simple secluded world.

It takes an on line petition of over 100,000 signatures to just get an item even listed, never mind discussed in Parliament.

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Sylvanus Urban [10 posts] 3 years ago
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OK - Understand what you mean - as you rightly point out, I'm not simple enough to believe that a single petition will cause Pat McQuaid to quit but I do think it can help demonstrate the climate of opinion.

If I'm the delegate on the UCI from British Cycling or the head of a Protour team and I know that thousands of cycling fans (my customers effectively or at least the customers of my sponsors/financial backers) want change then I'll be in a much safer position if I demand institutional reform. Even Kings and dictators depend, in the end, on public opinion - once it begins to move, it can be an unstoppable force.

So whilst I don't imagine for a second that a single signature or even a petition of thousands can create change directly, it can help create a climate where change becomes unstoppable.

http://chn.ge/Q2dfwt

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Gkam84 [9086 posts] 3 years ago
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Sylvanus Urban wrote:

OK - Understand what you mean - as you rightly point out, I'm not simple enough to believe that a single petition will cause Pat McQuaid to quit but I do think it can help demonstrate the climate of opinion.

If I'm the delegate on the UCI from British Cycling or the head of a Protour team and I know that thousands of cycling fans (my customers effectively or at least the customers of my sponsors/financial backers) want change then I'll be in a much safer position if I demand institutional reform. Even Kings and dictators depend, in the end, on public opinion - once it begins to move, it can be an unstoppable force.

So whilst I don't imagine for a second that a single signature or even a petition of thousands can create change directly, it can help create a climate where change becomes unstoppable.

I still don't think you quite get it. The UCI is the WORLD governing body for sports cycling.

So as the WORLD population is over 7 billion now. Lets just take the 500 from the petition and stick it onto the population of the world.

7,000,000,500........NOW, do you still think that 500 signatures are going to make ANY difference to anyone in WORLD cycling??

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Sylvanus Urban [10 posts] 3 years ago
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7,000,000,500........NOW, do you still think that 500 signatures are going to make ANY difference to anyone in WORLD cycling??

No but a petition that builds to thousands of signatures may. The UCI may claim to represent the world but in truth it represents a small fraction of its population, largely the more literate, wealthy nations in the world. Look at the start list in todays' race:

http://bit.ly/Vs0ko0

Over 90% of the riders are from Europe or N America. Even within those countries, the % that are serious cycling fans and have any interest of knowledge of the sport is a tiny fraction - lets say roughly 0.5%. So its real constituency is not 7bn but more like 0.5% x 700m - approximately lets say 3m people.

Even amongst that group, informed knowledge of the poor state of the sport is limited and natural human inertia will inevitably stop many signing. Probably more important is that few of that remaining, smaller number are even aware the petition exists but over the days and weeks to come, awareness will spread. Its possible that once a thousand or so have done so, then one of the cycling news sites may be willing to report its existence. Once that happens a tipping point is reached and signatures will balloon to many thousands. Once it becomes a news story in itself then that will put meaningful pressure on the UCI, its board and will give support and confidence to those like Kimmage, Waughters and Millar who are challenging the status quo.

Every little signature helps here:

http://chn.ge/Q2dfwt

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AWPeleton [3315 posts] 3 years ago
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Aye and Sunderland might win the premiership  24 24 24

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russyparkin [570 posts] 3 years ago
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maybe we can fix the FIA and FIFA whilst were at it..

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fatbeggaronabike [814 posts] 3 years ago
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Whilst I am all for positive thinking I really do have to ask some (UK libel law filter applied) people on here, What colour are the clouds on your planet?

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Gkam84 [9086 posts] 3 years ago
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I notice the petition is now closed  19

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dullard [140 posts] 3 years ago
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What an unpleasant string of comments. Bloke feels so strongly about something that he takes a bit of action and he gots shot down by some snide remarks. Redolent of the treatment of Paul Kimmage. drheaton, Gkam84, stumps, you are part of the problem.

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Gkam84 [9086 posts] 3 years ago
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The person who started this thread did not create the petition.

So myself, drheaton and stumps are part of the problem......along with Pat McQuaid the four of us are 100% responsible for the UCI and all the doping problems that go along with it  19

When the four of us leave, cycling will be cleaned up forever  26

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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Yeah, sorry, I'll hold my hands up, I caused Lance Armstrong to dope. I also bought David Millar his first lot of EPO.

In all seriousness the UCI as an organisation is set up to run itself, a new president is elected every 4 years. There is an election and anyone (within the UCI) can run. We may see a change of leadership next year, we may not, its entirely down to the UCI.

Look at what happened at FIFA, there were serious allegations of proper corruption (rather than just complicity/willfull ignorance of doping) yet Blatter was voted back in unopposed. Organisations like the UCI and FIFA do as they please unless there's a chance of losing money. As it stands that isn't a serious threat of that because the people who lose out financially through doping are the teams and race organisations like ASO who'll lose out on sponsorship.

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Gkam84 [9086 posts] 3 years ago
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The teams and race organisation's don't really lose out either. Plus the rider can profit through the likes of book deals.

The reason no-one really loses out. MOST sponsors of teams and races are in one form or another related to cycling. Examples being bike and clothing manufacturers, component makers and cycling retailers.

If one was to drop out, lets just say because of doping, there is going to be another company willing to come in.

So for example. Team Kam (the riders being myself, drheaton, stumps and Pat McQuaid)  19

Stumps is caught doping  14 and we lose our bike sponsor (Specialized) along with SRAM for our parts. But because we are a world tour team, there are many companies offering us their products. Pinarello and Shimano come and give us new stuff.

Stumps gets a two year ban, No problem. We just bring in another rider. He goes on to write a best selling autobiography. Then returns and we go on to support him and win all the grand tours after his ban.  19

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Gkam84 [9086 posts] 3 years ago
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True. I never though of it that way. BUT, I still don't think Pat McQuaid is at fault for everything that happens in world cycling and doping issue's.

He is responsible for what goes on in the UCI though. I don't think he's doing such a bad job with it.

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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I disagree GKam, doping hurts the teams more than anyone else, teams struggle to get enough backing to cover costs. Some are backed by government money (Astana) or sugar daddies (BMC, Leopard), very few are self supporting. Most are backed by media companies, banks or supermarkets or energy companies. A few big doping stories scares sponsors who choose to go to 'cleaner' sports. Without sponsor backing the teams can't function and its difficult to replace a top level sponsor, just look at HTC.

Some quick googling turns up a set of the UCI accounts and some analysis for 2011.

http://inrng.com/2012/09/uci-financial-accounts-2011/

The UCI made 235,000 Swiss francs profit mainly thanks to great tax breaks for a being not for profit organisation. On the other hand, ASO makes an average of 30m a year profit (100 times the UCI).

What's my point? The UCI has no financial incentive to keep the sponsors sweet because the big sponsorship money doesn't go into their pockets, it goes to ASO. The Teams and Organisers are the ones that need to work on sponsors so they are the ones that need to push through change.

If the UCI owned the rights to the TdF, classics or Giro like FIFA own the world cup rights or champions league rights then things may be different. But they don't. That means consumerism won't work on the UCI because they're not losing anything, you can't boycott a governing body in the same way you can a chocolate bar and a petition won't change anything because what the public thinks has no consequence as far as the UCI is concerned.

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