i just orderd one of these!

by wheelz   February 14, 2012  

please dont shout, or laugh out loud. i just orders one of these!

[link removed by admin]

im poor and would never be able to afford the real thing. am going to fit 105 groupset,a nd some nice wheels! anyone had an experience with these frames? wish me luck. Thinking

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You can get a well developed, world renowned bike brand carbon build for circa £1250. Yes it doesn't claim to be a pinarello dogma but this build is just claiming to be one.
What am I missing that has made building an untested, unseen chinese frame more appealing than getting a bike you can try, test, fit and has after sales service?

not all carbon is the same.

Jon Burrage's picture

posted by Jon Burrage [1081 posts]
2nd April 2012 - 7:09

28 Likes

hoorah,
dear not all carbon is the same, you are right but, anyone who knows a thing about top end bikes will know its a fake!
im not claiming it to be a propper Pinarillo, if anyone stops me and asks i will tell them its a Chinpin. Liar

i just thought some people would be interested in the fact "i" bought one! there seemed to be a lot of doom and gloom aroung buying these frames from china, fine, you dont have to read it, like you dont have to buy one. ive got 3 other bikes a giant, a kinesis which i built from a frame and a trek. the frame and paint quality of the Chinese frame are better than the kinesis Thinking
and as for road test and building problems, ive done all the hard work for you all. i just enjoy riding my bikes and its nice to build em too. the bike looks great, it rides good too! ive riden treks high end projects and to be fair its about the same ride quality if a bit heavier. 17.4lbs aint bad for under £1500.
happy riding. Cool

wheelz

wheelz's picture

posted by wheelz [68 posts]
2nd April 2012 - 7:38

28 Likes

Wheelz,
I am really glad you are happy with your build. I think you have hit it right on the button - enjoyment of the buying, building, riding and reporting, an excellent read whatever it says on the frame. I really wonder what the difference it would make to you if it was an 'original',,,,,,? Nowt I bet other than the 'bar talk'.
You have gone ahead and had a go in public which should be congratulated. I did my 'few now' in some sort of secrecy, not because I was ashamed, trying to con anyone or anything other than just private experimenting that I enjoy - I do of course ensure any frame is, as best I can 'safe' before build and not had a problem yet.

However, I did have an S-Works Tarmac split a chainstay on a hill a while ago that suprised me, being a top name an'all. I did have a replacement frame though.

Of the three now built (not decalled up, but from the same stable) I and my family members who ride them are over the moon with them.... You certainly have not built your bike to 'fool' anyone, you have done it for your riding fun.
Good on you mate - enjoy it.
Regards

Trikeman. Wink

Grunt, puff, pant and groan goes the old man - but he gets there in the end. ;o)

trikeman's picture

posted by trikeman [387 posts]
2nd April 2012 - 9:03

26 Likes

I do get Jon Burrage's point - and yes, I know I could buy a comparable Felt from you that would be a very nice bike, and personally that is probably the route I would take rather than Wheelz' approach, but that's not to take anything away from him. He's taken a gamble with the frame source, but honestly, how different will this be to Dolan/Ribble/Planet X, or for that matter, Graham Weigh, of which I have one?

He's clearly quite confident in his ability to put it together properly, so probably not as bothered about aftersales support as I would be. More power to you Wheelz!

I'd love to see Road.cc take a look at it and give a review, just to see how an impartial observer would take to it.

Last night I would have considered trading a very loud baby for a really nice bike.

posted by notfastenough [3475 posts]
2nd April 2012 - 9:36

28 Likes

I think what's interesting for me is that it underlines just how much discount bike manufacturers can swing from component manufacturers, and how much value you get from a factory-built bike. Whatever the frame, it's hard to make the case that building your own bike is financially the better option.

You've spent £900 on the finishing kit if my maths is right; We've got a Carbon Carrera sitting in the office that's £999 with a 105 groupset...

If you'd gone to planet x with your £1,300 you could get a Pro Carbon with SRAM Red. In terms of actual frame quality, it's probably comparable to the chinarello. not saying that's a better option for you, it's just interesting to compare and contrast.

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7506 posts]
2nd April 2012 - 10:03

27 Likes

I didnt mean to suggest buying a bike from the place Im involved with - it was more about the reasons why, nothing tetchy, I was just interested.

It looks like a pinarello but my main thought was that you are dropping a lot of cash to get the bike to a point where you can try it and by that point you are stuck if it doesnt ride well (not meaning it wont ride well, its just that you dont know the ride characteristics until all your money is spent and if it was me Id like to know what I was spending the cash on)

Best of luck with it, Im sure it will give you years of happy riding.

not all carbon is the same.

Jon Burrage's picture

posted by Jon Burrage [1081 posts]
2nd April 2012 - 21:39

26 Likes

no harm done,

ide looked at the geometry and rode a couple of bikes with simular character to the Pinchin, the rest was in the lap of the gods! Confused

lets hope it all stays in one piece and as you said many more happy miles.

All i need now is a light, comfy and reasonably priced saddle!! Smile

wheelz

wheelz's picture

posted by wheelz [68 posts]
3rd April 2012 - 7:55

27 Likes

Wheelz,

I was about to purchase the same frame from dhgate from the seller and prior to purchase I ran a google and found this forum post. I am wondering how this bike rides now that you have had it built-up for a a couple of months. Any complaints? would you purchase another frame from dhgate in the future?

thanks a bunch!

posted by rhkona [1 posts]
6th June 2012 - 4:47

33 Likes

Without wishing to sound too puritanical or a killjoy, but it's surprising that there's not one comment above questionning whether it's actually ethical to buy one of these rip-off frames?

Even if you ignore the fact that the safety of these frames might be unproven or the commercial damage this does to a genuine OEM, there's also real impact on owners of legitimate high-end frames who struggle to sell their bikes because of the fears of counterfeits.

It's also worth thinking about the lifetime cost of buying a fake frame - assuming you're honest when/if you sell it you'll get very, very little for it secondhand. Paying a little more for a real brand will at least give you some secondhand value.

posted by withnails [92 posts]
6th June 2012 - 9:48

28 Likes

withnails wrote:
it's surprising that there's not one comment above questionning whether it's actually ethical to buy one of these rip-off frames?

I was about to agree with you as I started to read your post thinking you would point out that the conditions for workers would be unknown given the lack of a responsible brand... but then you go on to mention the 'victims' as being..
withnails wrote:

owners of legitimate high-end frames who struggle to sell their bikes

Oh those poor, poor Pinarello Dogma owners! Why does no one ever think of the surpressed middle class in this country?! Crying

TheHatter's picture

posted by TheHatter [811 posts]
6th June 2012 - 10:00

28 Likes

I think the point is that you're paying a lot more than 'a little more' for the frame in the first place. If you want a cheap-ish Carbon frame what's the difference between buying one from a cheap brand and buying one from probably the same chinese factory made to look more expensive?

I once bought a cricket bat from my local shop, it had all the shop owners own stickers on but the toe-guard said Kookaburra, he told me that all the bats he sold (whether branded or unbranded) were made in the same factory in India, they just had different stickers on.

Likewise I bought some chinese flash guns for my camera, they're the spitting image of Canon ones with mostly the same electronics, they're straight rip offs really, but they work just fine and cost 1/10th of the price.

I see the same thing with bikes made in china, it doesn't matter what brand you buy, it's likely to have been made by the same people, the main issue with Chinese made products is quality control, but if you get a good one what harm is there? Anyway, if someone is looking at buying a Pinarello or similar brand they're going to know what they're looking at and will pay for the real thing, I think it unlikely that Wheelz' bike will suddenly mean that everyone with a real Pinarello will not be able to sell theirs on.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
6th June 2012 - 10:02

28 Likes

I wonder if its like buying DVDs on a black market and secretly your funding terrorism....

Companies are trying to stop on copies of there products being used and distributed (like fsa for example) i wonder if this will happen with frames in the future.

posted by Lost faith in t... [120 posts]
6th June 2012 - 11:22

30 Likes

Hmmmmm. I think this is a seriously bad idea.

When you're flying down a hill at 80kmh and the frame splits in two because the manufacturer has taken more care over making it look like a Pinarello Dogma rather than the safety aspect, will you still think it was a good idea to buy one?

Speaking as someone who has had a bad fall from a bike due to equipment failure (I won't name the make but you will all have heard of it - and supposedly they are known for their toughness), it is simply not worth the risk. When you ride a bike, you are trusting it with your life. Buy quality, not fake brands.

posted by londonplayer [671 posts]
6th June 2012 - 11:22

29 Likes

Not wanting to join the rights and wrongs debate but it's not just Pina's either.
If you 'delve' deep enough into Alibabba's or even the bay you can get 'replica/homage' frames badged as Colnago's, Orbea's, Kuota's or Scott and some of them are not just near look-a-likeys either.

I am not 100% all these frames come from the same factory, but whichever they come from has to have some tooling, experience and expensive equipment to build carbon frames, Dura-ace C35's and Zipps. Companies like Nike have tried to stop this 'copying' but if there is the market for less expensive, the market will be supplied.
Even the Chinese 'Rolex' copies today are identical (until stripped) and I think we will have to accept that this is a fact of life now and how long will it be before even the most avid enthusiast will be able to tell one from another, good or bad.

To buy only from recognised dealers would be one way, but in all seriousness how long can they keep going under this sort of stress and competition from on-line purchases.
I think we should enjoy riding what we have, as until governments step in this will be with us forever.

Trikeman. Wink

Grunt, puff, pant and groan goes the old man - but he gets there in the end. ;o)

trikeman's picture

posted by trikeman [387 posts]
6th June 2012 - 11:26

37 Likes

The problem is the enforcement of copyright and intellectual property is woeful in China. The Chinese will only crack down on companies commiting IP theft if they're not associated with the ruling Communist party otherwise they seem to be able to get away with what they want. Even stuff like iPad's have been copied and the Chinese government bought some of the copies for their diplomats!

I get the point that quality isn't guaranteed but neither is it on the real thing, yes you're less likely to get a dud with a real rather than a copy but if you're producing Carbon frames then you've got the kit. As I've said Quality Assurance is where some of these companies cut costs, same with paying their workforce a tuppence, but for all intents and purposes the materials won't be too far off.

I'm not agreeing with the purchasing of fakes per se but it's not the end of the world. I think that most cyclists, if they were able to buy the real thing, would do so. It's not like throwaway electrical gadgets, bikes are not cheap and generally the expensive end of products are used by those with a knowledge and love of their bikes which means that they're well aware that they've got a fake and are not being conned in any way.

Also... just because it comes from China doesn't mean it's a piece of crap.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
6th June 2012 - 12:30

30 Likes

trikeman wrote:

I am not 100% all these frames come from the same factory, but whichever they come from has to have some tooling, experience and expensive equipment to build carbon frames, Dura-ace C35's and Zipps. Companies like Nike have tried to stop this 'copying' but if there is the market for less expensive, the market will be supplied.
Trikeman. Wink

Don't know why, but the idea of rip-off components leaves me more surprised than rip-off frames. Dura-Ace C35s? That just makes me think it's an 'out-of-hours' job on the same production line, or someone fiddling the numbers to siphon a few off the official shipping list.

Last night I would have considered trading a very loud baby for a really nice bike.

posted by notfastenough [3475 posts]
6th June 2012 - 15:18

32 Likes

I tend to agree.

Unless the customer (like Pina or Shimano) demands all the equipment is destroyed after the production run they have requested and signed contracts that they will not make any others, what's stopping the manufacturer carrying on for a few more weeks using the same moulds/mandrels and designs to produce several hundred more? Worse still, sells the kit to someone who hasn't a clue......
In comes Dai, the exporter, buys them and they disappear off the radar until they land in old Blighty, USA or Taiwan - the trail well documented - not.
Component parts are really starting to hit the shores, take a look at some of the FSA kit on the bay eg. OS-99 they are a fortune but can now be bought for £30. They are still marked up with the 'titanium bolts and torques' but they are chromed mild steel. Until the demand is removed - they will still supply.
We are probably a laughing stock in the far East where they are successfully capitalising on Western greed, fashion and want for name emblasoned products. Take a tee shirt, George at Asda, cotton plain blue £2.99 - with Bench on it another £20.00 or £30.00,,,, Not to mention the Armani's. The East will churn these out all day long for a bigger margin and we all have to accept they are damned good at it, and/or very clever.

Trikeman. Wink

Grunt, puff, pant and groan goes the old man - but he gets there in the end. ;o)

trikeman's picture

posted by trikeman [387 posts]
6th June 2012 - 15:50

24 Likes

withnails wrote:
Without wishing to sound too puritanical or a killjoy, but it's surprising that there's not one comment above questionning whether it's actually ethical to buy one of these rip-off frames?

i did mention about trading standards being interested - they'd have to catch you first Wink

posted by matt637 [52 posts]
7th June 2012 - 12:43

29 Likes

have to say i have bought some oakley 'replicas' recently from china. had them checked by an optician and they are uv400 safe. radars with 5 lenses. i have traditionally been against such things and do own genuine oakley as well. but you cannot tell the difference, everything is the same except with 5 lenses they were 14.99!.
this is almost a bit of the industries fault. they went to china to get people to make products for a reason. the cheapest costs and highest margins.

what it has done though has made some switched on chinese people realise that they can make money off the manufacturers greed. the de rosa r386 is a classic example. its the same frame as the ribble stealth yet if you bought the exact bike specs the de rosa is £1100 more. they have bought the frame off the shelf so to speak. so your paying £1000 for stickers and paint.

its a shame the way things have gone but sadly most bike manufacturers are not about bike passion they are about the best marketing team. there are some exceptions but there are some terrible offenders (especially the italian brands) they sell you spirit of italy but actually give you the back street of taiwan)

again i dont object to this as taiwan / china have made everything for years and are probably better than most western countries now

posted by russyparkin [578 posts]
7th June 2012 - 18:16

18 Likes

russyparkin wrote:
have to say i have bought some oakley 'replicas' recently from china. had them checked by an optician and they are uv400 safe. radars with 5 lenses. i have traditionally been against such things and do own genuine oakley as well. but you cannot tell the difference, everything is the same except with 5 lenses they were 14.99!.
this is almost a bit of the industries fault. they went to china to get people to make products for a reason. the cheapest costs and highest margins.

what it has done though has made some switched on chinese people realise that they can make money off the manufacturers greed. the de rosa r386 is a classic example. its the same frame as the ribble stealth yet if you bought the exact bike specs the de rosa is £1100 more. they have bought the frame off the shelf so to speak. so your paying £1000 for stickers and paint.

I'd be really interested in seeing how the Chinarello actually compares to a "real", as in bought through 'official' channels, Pinarello frame. I wonder if its possible to have it professionally appraised? I'd love to know. It could be interesting to see if its a straight copy, an actual Pinarello frame produced 'out of hours' or just someone knocking together a look-a-like.

If nothing else Wheelz, your project has certainly been a great source of discussion.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
7th June 2012 - 19:13

19 Likes

all the blather seems to imply its the same geometry and tube shapes as a real one but with a slightly different carbon fibre.

thing is you could pick up your 6k pinarello, ride 20 miles, bin it on something in the road and write it off. even with a crash replacement policy its still a massive write off. where as the chinarello you order another for £350.

took the same view with the glasses, dropped a set the other day but if it had been my real set i paid £180 for i would have been livid. fortunately i just picked em up thinking thank god they are replaceable.

posted by russyparkin [578 posts]
7th June 2012 - 19:39

12 Likes

Well my friend drheaton,

I took my bike into a LBS that deals with high end frames/bikes and is a main dealer for Pinarillo! Although they were understandably "not over the moon" with me/it, they were good enough sports to run an "experts" eye over it for me.
So after a few long minuted of umming and aring, calling the mech`s from out back, they got down to picking holes in it. Im afraid thats all they could do, pick holes in little things, but the good news is & they hated saying it, but it was a good copy! Big Grin Ive got a good frame. Ive now had over 1200 miles of good fun riding, my WECC know its a fake, but also admire me & it from afar, if i say so myself, we done a cracking job building it up with good sensible choices of Sram Rival groupset, mavic Kyserium wheels & all the rest of the kit which makes the bike work.
I do not earn enough or ride quick enough to warrent or buy a "real" Pinarillo or any other top end frame. I bought it because i liked the look of it, im out to save the world, just out riding my very good looking, fun to ride, discussion starting "fake" Chin-Pinarillo..... Smile

wheelz

wheelz's picture

posted by wheelz [68 posts]
9th June 2012 - 20:20

23 Likes

Well Said.

Just ride guys.

Until your frame falls in half.

Sir Velo

Raleigh's picture

posted by Raleigh [1733 posts]
9th June 2012 - 20:24

15 Likes

have a read of this.

i immagine most of you already no this, but som wont.

http://inrng.com/2012/02/who-made-your-bike/

wheelz

wheelz's picture

posted by wheelz [68 posts]
9th June 2012 - 20:54

16 Likes

I guess that even if the knock off frames were identical to the real thing, even coming out the back door of the plant, the long term effect is the manufacturer themselves have to spend time money effort etc in R&D and marketing the original frame, then they make zilch because of the knock offs, so in the long run it canny be a good thing really.

Je vie dans l'espoir constant

Strathlubnaig's picture

posted by Strathlubnaig [115 posts]
10th June 2012 - 19:57

20 Likes

Been reading a few forum posts too on other sites and a lot of bike 'manufacturers', people like Ritte Van Vlaanderen, buy blanks from China and Taiwan, paint them up and sell them on for a tidy profit. What you get by paying 4, 5 or even 10 times the cost of going direct to the manufacturer is a decent warranty and some after-sales support.

If you're happy to not pay thousands of pounds for a warranty (that sometimes are so full of holes they're so far from watertight they may as well be sieve) I don't see the problem of buying a frame direct from a Chinese factory. All you're doing is cutting out two or three middle men all wanting their cut.

For anyone interested the names that kept coming up were DengFu and HongFu (as direct sales selling carbon frames for as little as $300 link) and PedalForce who're one step down the line and provide some kind of warranty at around 100% markup. I also read that PedalForce sell overstocks of the frames Ritte uses.

The general consensus is that, if you can get past the initial mental issue of buying direct without the after sales, you're likely to get a great frame at a fraction of the cost, there'll always be horror stories but there's also a lot of good reviews too.

For me, the big draw would be designing and painting up a blank frame into something unique and one of a kind. Likewise, without a name on them they might be less appealing to thieves and whole lot cheaper to insure/replace.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
10th June 2012 - 20:19

18 Likes

Hi Wheelz

Couple of questions

How is the frame riding now ?

Plus do you have the name of the seller you purchased from on DHGate ?

Rouleur

posted by Stevie B [4 posts]
16th April 2013 - 12:58

20 Likes

Thanks for your input on the frame set. Can you update us on your experience on this ride?

I purchased one just last week and can only hope it is a quality steed.

Thanks

posted by meeces2pieces [1 posts]
26th August 2013 - 23:08

14 Likes

Hi all,

its been fine, completed about 3000 miles and have only had to replace the head bearings!

and here she is in all her splendour above lake Derwent.

DSC_0110.jpg

wheelz

wheelz's picture

posted by wheelz [68 posts]
28th August 2013 - 18:31

12 Likes

Hi all,
Well its into its 2nd winter now, ok, its done a fare few miles and not all of them in perfect conditions. The frame has held up great, Its taken a battering, always being shoved into the back of my car for trips to the Lakes, sportives or such like, the paint is starting to get a bit chipped, but that's down to my own lack of care, but overall its held up well. It still rides great, no rattles, creaks or groans, its as true as the day we built it. The Sram Rival, and Mavic Kysirium wheels were faultless and have now been transplanted onto my Dolan "winter bike", yes its real Dolan, although I did buy the frame on eBay, and build it up....!!

I`m unsure what my winter project will be. My Chinarillo is sitting up in the loft (not worth a bean 2nd hand), wrapped up in bubble wrap, so, will I source (from the same manufacturer), another Chinese frame, or will my LBS come good and supply me with a "proper" frame.

Watch this space.

wheelz

wheelz's picture

posted by wheelz [68 posts]
9th January 2014 - 20:35

6 Likes