Rider values

it's a combination of

1) the scores from last year's game
2) the UCI/IG rankings
3) the predictions of a pro rider on who's going to do well
4) some faffing about in the office

as you might imagine, it's not an exact science

I knew it wouldn't an an exact science, was just interested in some riders leaping up the table and not many drop off's

That in combination with this years 150 limit, wow you like to make it hard, just playing about with teams, its going to be tough to even form a semi competitive team for the grand tours

Think if you went from 4 star riders to 5 star riders it would be abit more realistic based on the amount of riders in the star category and those that have moved to that category.

However like Gkam says will be tough to make a semi competitive team

but we all love a challenge

Here's an example and if your a pursuit player your royally screwed

Here is a team, bang on 150 limit

Cadel Evans (BMC) 39.7
Daniel Martin (GRM) 29.8
Mark Cavendish (SKY) 40.0
Rein Taaramae (COF) 27.7

Valentin Iglinksiy (AST) 2.5
Javier Moreno (MOV) 2.5
Mauro Santambrogio (BMC) 2.6
Hayden Roulston (RSN) 2.6
Alexander Porsev (KAT) 2.6

I think reducing the credits from 175 to 150 due to 5 DS rather than 4 hasn't worked due to the increase in higher valued star riders

Echo's previous comments.

If i understand this correctly if one of your riders wins a stage then if you have another squad member in your team he also gets points ?

So basically you have to work out who will win the stage and pick a team member of the same squad at a cheap value cos they normally wouldn't win a stage but will subsequently score points.

So for stage one of Paris - Nice (a team time trial) if you pick 4 riders from the top 4 time trialling teams then you will probably score quite highly.

I think my thinking is correct, but i'm starting to confuse myself now

Your right enough Stumps

But if you do it this way as an exmample

TT results

Sky
BMC
Garmin
RSNT
Astana

So if you have as follows you will score the max points

2 Sky riders
2 BMC riders
2 Garmin riders
2 RSNT riders
1 Astana rider

Then of course you have the transfer challenge as you may have chosen riders that are unlikely to score elsewhere. Could be spending a few penalty points?

How so?
Everyone that you are competing with has the same limits for their teams.

Your right but i think what he was getting at was that anyone can pick a team but to score decent points on a regular basis is going to be hard with the new limits and the increase in rider values.

I agree that it will be harder to score points this year.
Less credits and more points for stage wins means that there will be more gambling on trying to pick a stage winner rather than sticking with the (almost) guarenteed points from a gc leader.
I think it will be much more interesting this year and should lead to more varied teams rather than everybody opting for the same team of all the top gc guys.

Even with the lower scoring, theres still no reason you cant be competitive, unless you're trying to compete with your own scores from last year

Here's my 'how come this rider is worth so much?' question. I can't see why Steven Kruijswijk would be worth more than Dennis Menchov.

On another note, not that it matters, 'cause they're all 'star' riders, but why is Enrico Gasparotto in the KM classification? Why not the AR or PC?

Man, can't we have our budgets raised to 175 for the Grand Tours? It would make for cooler teams!

Now your nit picking over .1

The less money you have ther more skillful you need to be.
Otherwise we'd all pick . . .
M. Cavendish PC SKY 40.0
P. Gilbert AR BMC 40.0
A. Contador GC SAX 39.6
C. Vande Velde DS GRM 16.6
S. Casar DS FDJ 16.0
L. Bak DS LOT 15.7
V. Agnoli DS LIQ 15.6
D. Cataldo DS OPQ 15.4

Hey, that's not a bad GC squad. . . . can I have 200k and pick this purist team?

The less money you have ther more skillful you need to be.
Otherwise we'd all pick . . .
M. Cavendish PC SKY 40.0
P. Gilbert AR BMC 40.0
A. Contador GC SAX 39.6
J. Rodriguez AR
C. Vande Velde DS GRM 16.6
S. Casar DS FDJ 16.0
L. Bak DS LOT 15.7
V. Agnoli DS LIQ 15.6
D. Cataldo DS OPQ 15.4

Hey, that's not a bad GC squad. . . . can I have 200k and pick this purist team?

But thats you using nearly 200 points, the limit for last season apart from the starting where the value's went all over was 175

Yeah, i am all for low budgets to make it more skilful . . . big budgets make it too easy.

With a low budget you ned to find those jokers in the patch who no one else realises is going to get in the top 5 in those big uphill finishes in Qatar.

So who are my jokers?
Is Juanjo Cobo riding qatar?
He's good value at 34.7.

Im all for low budgets and a challenege, but im not sure the correct balance between budget and rider values has quite been struck

Did anybody go down in value???
Anyhoo, heres a hypothetical not too bad team.

149.4 points.

Mark Cavendish (SKY)
Mark Renshaw (RAB)
Thor Hushovd (BMC)
Juan Jose Haedo (SAX)
Johan Vansummeren (GRM)
Christian Knees (SKY)
Ion Izagirre (EUS)
Anders Lund (SAX)
Javier Moreno (MOV)

Also as previously posted else where, there will be a lot of great riders missing from the tours due to teams merging and consolodating, so some of the choices will be made for us, also remember Coe/Ovett in the running,expect Cav, Goss, Renshaw, Greipelm Hushovd not to come up against each other till they have to.

Cav v Renshaw v Greipel might happen next week in qatar ! Bring it on.

Yeah those 3 plus Boonen, Hushovd, Gilbert, Farrar, Sagan, Degenkolb and Phinney

Straight fight out between BMC, RSNT and Sky for the TT i think with outside bets of Rabo, Liquigas and Omega

Think I have my team sorted

Where has Flecha gone from the Sky line up. They only have 7 listed but he is not one of them. Was going to pick him as he always tries a break at some point. Anybody help

He is in the tour, just not listed in the game for the next stage, i suspect its not updated yet, if you want to find him, click on the filter and hit "all riders" he's an AR and is 22.0

Well Flecha isn't the Sky specialist I went for . . . I picked another, and I don't mean Cav !

Ah, i was looking under riders for the next stage and he wasn't listed. Found him now but it still wont let me pick him.

Never mind cos i couldn't find him i have gone for the same as Mr Hill above.

Austerity measures - smaller budgets, higher prices....

I was surprised to find Christian Van de Velde as a domestique... Hmmm!...

Yeah...

I think we'll score quite highly for these early tours as they are fairly predictable and the extra stage scores make for big totals.

On points: by the end of the TdF I had about 190 points but I didn't always use them. In fact leaving a few points spare is a good strategy. The lack of limitations in who you can pick as star riders also makes the game easier as you can pack your team with sprinters for the flat and climbers for the mountains. Transfers rolling over also makes it easier to build up transfers and switch. I used to change mainly DSs, now I'm realising it's more important to change star riders as they are the big points earners.

Make that list, Gkam, please!

I'd like to see it tied to only (!) the UCI points, really. If a rider is a surprise from last year, cool!

Does anyone know where I can find the last UCI 2011 standings? I'd kind of like to propose a different point value system for the riders for mext year's game...

Thanks!

http://www.uci.html.infostradasports.com/cache/2/TheASP.asp@PageID%3D102...

I would Orli, but for a few different reasons i wont

1, I cant access last years game anymore
2, I would just open a whole can of worms for people to pick out certain riders and ask why they are so high
3, Its a game, lets get on with what we have and be thankful its here at all

Thanks, Dave!

Yeah, without last year's points earned it's pretty hard... I can't go off of UCI points, where for example, Cavendish is ranked No. 30 but I have no idea how many points he totaled in the Grand Tours or the overall competition. Dave do you have those totals per rider for last year? Can you put them on a spreadsheet or a text file? Can they be separated into the Grand Tours and the Classics?

It's just for fun and just to play with them.... I am annoyed at some of the rider values and would love to come up with a formula that would be pretty straightforward... I'd just like to give it a shot as something to consider for next year. I'll even ask you if not last season, can we get the totals by Grand Tour and the Classics at the end of the year? It might be cool to have anyways as a refernce point for next year's game! I know the people at NBC Universal (http://nbcfantasy.stats.com/cycling/index.asp) offer those stats for the last 3 years when you play their game. Of course, this game is nuch (!) more fun! I'll give it up if it'sot available, but I'd really like it to try the exercise out, to see if I can twist it and make a little more sense to me... Either way, it's a proposal to make the game more (!)... fun?... And I'm thankful (!) In fact, I'm hooked on this game!

Dave, are the riders' total points on display anywhere on the site? I know if you click on a rider's name you get his total scores for the overall competition, but can they be seen as a group anywhere?

On another note, I'm looking for some numbers to crunch for next year, so, I know it's a lot to ask for, but, if you're bored some day, at the end of the overall competition, could you share some stats for the stage races, like:

1. Top 20 riders who got their points at the finish line of mass sprint stages?
2. Top 20 riders who got their points at the finish line of mountaintop summit finishes?
3. Top 20 riders who got their points in breakaways - or - on the road - meaning not at the finish line?
4. Top 20 riders who got their points from KOM points on the road
5. I know it's a lot, thanks for reading!