Doping.....advice and thoughts

by Gkam84   September 23, 2011  

Ok, a couple of things have arisen from a ride out last night with a friend, we were talking drinks when he told me he was currently using SIS Ergogenic Thinking I'd only heard of SIS Go Electrolyte, which after a little research, seems to be the same thing

He emailed me a link to what he's using which seems to suggest it is Ergogenic??

http://www.gbcycles.co.uk/product/32396/SIS_GO_Ergogenic_Drink

But after a little more searching, i found the ingredients list which is as follows

Quote:
Carbohydrate mix (92%) (maltodextrin [produced by partial hydrolysis of a special variety of maize], fructose), natural flavouring, citric acid, electrolytes (2%) (sodium chloride, calcium lactate, potassium chloride, sodium citrate, magnesium lactate), sweetener (aspartame).
Suitable for vegans. Contains a source of phenylalanine.

Nothing about the use of Ergogenic or anything related to it.

My question is, IF it did contain Ergogenic, would it be banned by the likes of the UCI and WADA because as far as i know, its in some way linked or is an anabolic steroid??

My other question is, which will be more of a personal opinion i think, Do alot of amateur riders use things that would be banned in pro cycling?? (intake wise rather than bikes and cycling gear)

Like most of us, who enter sportive's and similar races, i have used various gels, drinks, bars and so forth, but never really thought about what is in them or if they contain things that would be banned.

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An interesting one that!
Firstly, if you are actually Racing you need to very careful what you are using, the CTT book lists loads of illegal substances and other regulations.
Secondly, if you are riding Sportives you are NOT racing! The only things that you are competing against are the course and yourself. So anybody that consciously takes an 'illegal' substance really needs to ask themselves whether they actually enjoy what they do.
Thirdly, the drink manufacturers also normally supply the pro's too, so have to keep on top of the rules for 'allowed substances'. Reading some of the press for GB/Sky with CNP products, they really seem to be pushing the boundaries of what is allowed.

Currently going slower than I'd like...

posted by stealth [184 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 5:11

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I can only guess the people who produced that web page spend more time in the cake shop and cafe than riding their bike...

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posted by the_mikey [146 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 7:08

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An Erogenic is simply an external enhancement to performance, it's not by itself illegal - only the ones defined as such by the powers that be are illegal. Clothing, food, your bike, HRMs, and cycle computers, all could be defined as ergogenic aids… your turbo trainer or even your water bottle could strictly be said to be ergogenic aids.

The ergogenic benefit of something like that SIS drink is I would guess the speed at which it delivers the nutrients contained in it to your blood stream and muscles and that it is formulated to give the maximum amount of the right nutrients.

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posted by Tony Farrelly [4135 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 8:53

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I thought clenbuterol was a muscle-building drug?

Stewie

posted by stewieatb [298 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 14:05

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I must admit I looked for a moment at Clenbuterol when the Contador story broke. Within a very short space of time I'd googled it and found that its alternative name was the "Size Zero pill".

As someone who could do with losing a couple of pounds this immediately sparked my interest, although I have to say that in the end I googled sufficiently thoroughly to understand the possible medical side effects too, which were enough to put me off.

But it is an interesting one. Certainly Clenbuterol is banned by the UCI or Contador would be a non-issue, but as far as I know it is not illegal in the UK. And it is easy enough to buy on the web. Perhaps there comes a point where "personal use" becomes "intent to supply", and this may have legal implications. This drug is not approved for prescription in the UK, but it is approved elsewhere as a treatment for asthma.

If I were a bit more of a risk-taker....

Pete

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posted by PeteH [159 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 14:05

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It might well be as well, but in the medical world it is used for the treatment of asthma.

Bearing in mind I got interested in it because of the weight-loss aspect....I know it promotes weight loss by raising your body temperature slightly, therefore it takes more energy (and therefore hopefully burns more fat) to maintain this higher temperature, even if you're just lying on the sofa.

But last time I saw Contador he didn't look at all porky so there must presumably be other effects too.

Possible side effects look pretty dodgy though. High blood pressure, respiratory problems...

Pete

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posted by PeteH [159 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 14:12

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It's not a muscle building drug, but it helps burn fat very efficiently, as I understand it, one of the reasons it is also supposedly much used in Hollywood. In livestock it's used to get leaner more expensive meat.

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posted by Tony Farrelly [4135 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 16:06

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I have to admit, i also looked a clenbuterol because of its weight loss properties and then looked into it, WAY to dodgy to even get into i think

Most of the world has banned it from being given to food producing animals, but it still goes on, I think its ok to give to race horses who have an allergic reaction that causes breathing difficulty's but i don't know of many other uses anymore because its pretty much banned all over, so i wouldn't like to be caught with any

BUT i will also admit, i have looks at other things cyclists have used for doping in the past just to help with losing some weight, building muscle quicker and becoming better on the bike, but after looking into most of them, i decided that the best way to do all three is just to get on the bike, put the miles in and watch what i'm eating on a daily basis, STILL need to give up smoking though Crying

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posted by Gkam84 [8825 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 17:30

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Yeah, Gkam, I'd pretty much go along with that.

I'm in my early forties and came back to cycling about 2 years ago specifically to lose weight - started off just riding 2 miles each way to work instead of using the Tube. Now I'm riding sportives etc. and have lost loads of weight (not to mention shrinking 3 clothes sizes). Next milestone will probably be a 100-miler sportive next year, leading up to the Etape in '13 or '14.

Trouble is I'd still like to lose more weight. I'm rubbish at climbing in particular and although quite decent on the flat I'd love to be able to cruise at 40km/h rather than 25-30km/h. And the only way I'm going to get better is by getting lighter.

Logic dictates I will get there eventually naturally, but it is soooooo tempting to look for something to accelerate the process. (I could just eat less I suppose but I do quite like my food!)

Fortunately do not have your problem re cigarettes - I gave up on principle when the price went above £2/packet! (Old fart!) Big Grin

Pete

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posted by PeteH [159 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 21:06

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On the subject of loosing weight...how much weight can you loose? Certainly the more I have lost the faster I have gone; but... Surely there is a limit? Anyone got any ideas?

posted by SideBurn [787 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 21:29

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SideBurn wrote:
On the subject of loosing weight...how much weight can you loose? Certainly the more I have lost the faster I have gone; but... Surely there is a limit? Anyone got any ideas?

Naturally there is a limit to what you would want to lose.

BUT i think you could only physically lose a certain amount before you became grossly underweight and ill

Then just to be extreme, you can only ever be as light as whatever your bones, muscles and internal organs weigh if you could lose every single bit of fat, but you'd still be building muscle, because the less you weigh the easier it is for you to build muscles i think

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posted by Gkam84 [8825 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 21:44

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Funnily enough I am reading Ned Boulting's book at the moment, I think he mentioned that Chris Boardman's racing weight was around 80kg. I've met Boardman had I'd say he's only 5'6 or so. And this a guy who broke the hour record and won TdF prologues. Very dense, certainly makes you realise that its never as straightforward as lighter is faster.

Speaking personally I can still see there's a way to go. There is a danger of going too far but somehow I doubt I'll ever end up anorexic! Seriously, presumably BMI is as good an index as any. I know they use this to classify overweight so presumably they use it to ckassify underweight too.

Pete

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posted by PeteH [159 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 23:13

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Don't dope and ride

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posted by seabass89 [235 posts]
23rd September 2011 - 23:16

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If you want to read about professional starvation, try this article:

http://www.velonation.com/Blogs/Ben-Greenwood/ID/181/Food-Glorious-Food....

BMI can be a guide for general fitness but it'll go a bit funny at professional level, particularly for climbers. The tactics used by the Italian team described in the article above are definitely unhealthy.

Stewie

posted by stewieatb [298 posts]
24th September 2011 - 12:21

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A timely question, given this story about amateurs being involved in doping in Italy.

http://road.cc/content/news/44610-more-100-people-under-investigation-ma...

It wouldn't surprise me if a fair number of people riding in clubs and sportives - especially on the continent where they are essentially races - are using performance-enhancing substances.

In swimming at least you have to be a member of the ASA to compete, even at the club gala level, and part of that means signing up to the rules against illegal doping. Theoretically my 13 year old son is subject to the same rules as any Olympic swimmer, though of course the enforcement is not the same.

Maybe cycling clubs need to do the same thing through BC. Again I realise enforcement and testing is the big issue but at least it might stop a few people if it was against the rules - is it actually illegal to take EPO or HGH etc if all you are doing is riding sportives and you don't have a race licence ?

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posted by abudhabiChris [516 posts]
24th September 2011 - 12:24

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Thanks for that Stewie Surprise

posted by SideBurn [787 posts]
24th September 2011 - 15:28

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Clenbuterol / weight loss pills - "Bearing in mind I got interested in it because of the weight-loss aspect"

But isn't riding your bike also very good for weight loss?

I think as long as you're open about what you take, fill yer boots.. the only thing wrong in all this is Pros who swear they're clean when they're doping. If you want to use a bit of something to put in a good TT or sportive time, it's a free world but don't kid anyone - including yourself.

After all, my strong black coffee pre-ride ritual is nothing more than a mild stimulant pick-me-up.

posted by james-o [190 posts]
24th September 2011 - 17:28

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james-o wrote:
But isn't riding your bike also very good for weight loss?

Yes but would be happy to accelerate the process if I could an acceptable way to do so.

Pete

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posted by PeteH [159 posts]
26th September 2011 - 17:11

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Pete - Strong black coffee no sugar, ride steadily for an hour or 2 before breakfast as often as you can. Natural weight loss guaranteed. Speedy weight loss puts your body into a starvation-mode and is usually followed by rapid re-gain of any weight lost.

posted by james-o [190 posts]
26th September 2011 - 19:29

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clen is better cycled with eph every other week to get real fat burning effects. used to compete a few years ago bodybuilding so was familiar with getting to 4% bodyfat. dont really see the need for a cyclist to go anywhere near that far but every-1s own choice. its easy to get to 10% bf without much hassle with the right diet in place as i just shed 3 stone in 18weeks as i was way too heavy as a cyclist thinking of competing next year. green tea helps burn away the fat as does a drop of lemon in your water as you do your cardio. Black coffee just kick starts your day nicely, breakfast of champions lol. (btw my weight was lost naturally!)

Head down, arse up

posted by Daza [16 posts]
26th September 2011 - 20:47

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