Winning rider's team in World Championships???

I don't know where's my message... I'll try again.

How does "Winning rider's team" 5 points bonus works? by UCI teams or by nationality?

For example, Nibali and Bennati will ride in the same team (Italy) or not (Liquigas - Leopard)?

Thanks in advance. I think it's very important to know this point...

Still to be put up, but i think there might be a switch from teams to nation's before the start and if that happens you'll only be able to pick two from each nation, but not a clue, Dave's keeping his cards close to his chest with this one

On a related note, this is the scoring given for the World TT:

Finish line: Points awarded on the line of a stage or day race. First across the line gets 20 points, down to 1 point for 20th position

Breakaway bonus: 5 points to any rider in a lead breakaway of less than 10 riders that's away at half distance

Team bonus: 5 points to every participating rider in the winning rider's team

How will you be judging who's in the breakaway, Dave?

The same as any other break in a one day, If 10 or less guys are away at half way then they get 5 points

Read it again Gkam, that's scoring given for the TIME TRIAL

Oh yeah, oppps, Well i want to judge it and the break away will be formed of my 9 riders

i also think categories should be scrapped (especially for the TT) and we should be able to pick two riders from each nationality

Nah, Categories should stand, that way you can't fill your team with the AR TT specialists

yh but none of the sprinters will be in the TT

I think there will be a handful of them

Don't the countries have to enter a 14-man squad, and select their riders for each event from there? So they'll probably have to enter some sprinters but none of them will do particularly well...

Edit: 14 is a ballpark figure, I can't remember how many it actually is.

It just depends on the ranking, not all can put in a big team and the likes of Luxembourg can only enter the Schelcks

Well, you're only allowed to enter as many people in each race as the number of your nationals who have gained World Tour ranking points - so Luxembourg can enter two people if only Frandy have points.

Not quite - since Luxembourg are in top 10 of World Tour, they are guaranteed 6 places in the road race, even though they only have the 2 riders with ranking points. GB ended up with 3 last year because we were outside top 10

List of how many riders qualified per country here:

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTI2Mjc&ObjTypeCo...

Nice work Simon, been looking for that kinda list for a while, BUT

Eritrea 5 enrolled of whom 3 starters
Islamic Republic of Iran 9 enrolled of whom 6 starters

Do these country's even have enough to fill them out?

Its like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_national_road_cycling_championships

How long do you have to be a citizen of Aruba to enter their cycling championship

Ever heard of Tarbiz Petrochemical CT? Mehdi Sohrabi who has more wins than Cavendish this year? Bit insulting questioning whether they can fill out a team. Same applies for Eritrea, one of the strongest national teams on the Africa Tour.

No, Read the rules:

However, a nation with fewer than 9
riders classified in the individual UCI WorldTour ranking on 15 August 2011 shall start
the number of riders that are classified. A nation with fewer than 6 riders classified in
the UCI WorldTour ranking will, nonetheless, start 6 riders

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTkzNg&ObjTypeCod...

No sorry i haven't, but i looked them up, so Sohrabi races on the UCI Asia Tour, we get NO coverage of that in this country and nor do we get any Africa tour

Are you trying to tell me that Sohrabi is better than Cav??

I didn't mean to insult anyone, it was a genuine question as i dont know much about Iran and Eritrea cycling wise and the later is not surprising because of this

BUT i looked up the cycling and found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_of_Eritrea

If it wasn't so damn hot over there, i dare say i could cover 700 miles in 10 stages, not taking away from it, i love to see cycling being the most popular sport in a country and it also says they have nearly 100 professional eritrean cyclists, BUT how many could even cope with a one day race like the Milan – San Remo?? I use that because its not far off the length of the world champ course

So now i want to know DAVE, will i be able to pick an Eritrean cyclist in my team?

So it doesn't exist then? Of it has no relevance at all? I see no coverage where I am either but this is the internet age, results are everywhere and whilst yeah, I don't look specifically all the time for stage results from Asia or Africa either, I am open to checking out results of cycling everywhere, not just just focused solely on the World Tour.

Did I say that? I said he had more victories than Cav.

You're not paying any attention to what I wrote. You posted that you don't think they have enough riders to fill squads of 6 and 3. I showed it was clearly a belligerent ignorance viewpoint, that these nations have been doing well on their own Continental Tour and have more than enough riders who can race. I gave you an example of Iranian rider who has done well this season and I mentioned that the Eritrean teamhave been racing well on the Africa Tour, not what their countries media standards are, not how many cyclists they have registered with the UCI. Actually get off Wiki and look. The UCI site has all the race for this season here and you can find results on CQRanking like for this year's La Tropicale Amissa Bongo here

Your flippant statements about the heat directly contradicts your your third sentence. Why are you trying to hold them to the same pedestal as WorldTour riders? Again, I was only mentioning them in the context of their respective Continental Tours and being more than capable of filling riders for in the spots allocated, I never got into discussing whether they can last long or at all in the WC with cyclists from the bigger nations but then that's not really the point of the World Champs to begin with, nor the point I was originally raising.

to answer the original question, there will be *no* team bonus in the TT and the bonus for the the road race will be based on *national* teams

so dave does that mean we can pick say four sky riders? so long as only two are of the same nationality?

No team bonus for the TT is actually quite a good rule and I'd like to see that brought in for every ITT next year.

drheaton - duly noted. doesn't really make sense in an ITT

nope. the game logic is all written so that you can only have two riders from one team. so that rule still applies for the worlds.

So does that mean the game will stop me from having Cav, Geraint Thomas and Wiggins if that's what I want?

i think that means we will be able to do that drheaton

yes you will.

Sorry, got a little confused as team bonuses will be done by nation but limits are in place by team. Glad I can stock up on Brits, Belgians and Norwegians though, that's useful.

This is probably something that could be improved on for next year, especially with the Olympics (which I hope will be included in the fantasy comp). Limiting people to two per nation and scrapping limits per 'pro team' would be better for World Champs and Olympic events.

not as confused as i'll be when i do the scores, no doubt

Also, when I've been looking at previous top 10s for the TT there are some riders in there who aren't in the current full rider lists. I assume that once the final teams are announced they'll be added in?

EDIT: Scratch that, the guys retired.

This would be a good time to raise the limit of riders from one team to 3 or 4

Were you after Koos Moerenhout by any chance?

I might have been

Although a few might need to be added anyway like Jack Bauer and Borbridge who I don't think are in the list as it stands.

Bobridge (check your spelling) is there... I can't see Bauer.

Ok, my team is all greyed out right now. So, I have questions! Does that mean that none of the riders I had for the Vuelta are on the currently available riders list? Are the riders that are available right now only the ones that will do the WC Elite ITT? Wil the list then change for the raod race? That's a lot of work! Wow! Will someone post here when the game rider list is complete? Until then, unlimited transfers? Thanks!

The riders that are available just now are the ones who races the GP Montreal and not the world championship riders, i'm sure they will get updated nearer the time when a list becomes available

You can have a reasonable guess about who will be there and get picking, if you like, but start lists won't be out til around next weekend.

Does anybody understand any of the above?

Sohrabi has 10 wins this season.
Cavendish has 14 wins. by the way, I think.

excluding team time trials, jerseys and classements.

ive sort of got a team i think, my prob is who if any out of the sprinters and climbers category will be in the TT

Ditto, I'm struggling to try and find a potential top 20 TT rider in either the PC or KM categories. As usual they're all in the ARs although some of the better TT all-rounders might be saving themselves for the road race. Also trying to work out which 4 of the 10 or so half decent TTing DSs will have a good run.

I don't

To clarify though, here's where we are: we don't know who's riding yet, and when we do we'll whittle down the starters. for now everyone's down as riding.

Ok, so i made up a mock team

Bradley WIGGINS
Mark CAVENDISH
David MILLAR
Jonathan BELLIS
Christopher FROOME
Daniel LLOYD

So if that for instance was the British team and Cav won a sprint finish, does that mean i've already made 45 points without anyone else finishing in the top 20?

20 for Cav's win and 5 for the rest cause they are British, or only 20 for the win because non of the rest are from HTC??

Does anyone reading road.cc still watch and enjoy real bike races for what they are - incredible examples of athleticism and great entertainment. Or do you simply view them as necessary components of a game? It would be a great shame if that were true.

I can only really speak for myself, but i have seen others saying the same, I really enjoy the racing and this game give it an extra edge.

From a personal stand point. Before i used to just enjoy watching it, but now i have riders to cheers on, but only the guys in my team at the time, lol, sort of like watching a football match with two teams you dont support, take for example, Man Utd vs Chelsea, there are a few players i dont like and a few i do, so i cheer for the ones i dont like to get snapped (Rooney) and the ones i like to play well

I'm now doing this with racing, so say i had Dan Martin and him and J-Rod were on a climb, i'd be wishing J-Rod would slip a gear or get a puncture or anything to slow him down, i dont wish them injuries like i do with footballers, but i want to see the riders i dont have lose

Am i the only one??

Gkam - I agree, with the emergence of Sky i seem to cheer them on regardless of their nationality. But if they aren't at the front i have my fantasy team riders to cheer.

However there was nothing better than seeing Voeckler in yellow hitting the front, proper bike racing.

I agree, I've always watched the TdF but never so much the Giro or Vuelta but the last two years I've got alot more into these races. It's also caused me to pay more attention to who's in the breakaways, which Domestiques are doing well and who's in form rather than just watching sprint finishes and waiting for the mountains where it gets interesting.

i know a *lot* more about pro racing than i did a year ago

My understanding is that you would get 45 points as each Brit would get 5pts but you would not be allowed to have EBH as another rider as that would take you to three Team Sky riders.

agreed, my knowledge of the peloton over the last 2 years has gone through the roof, I know the palmares of a lot of DS's like the back of my hand, its actually a bit embarrassing.

My love for the consistency of Konstantin Sivtsovs point scoring knows no bounds.

you could do this but overall you wouldnt do that well in the road race with those riders, not on this course.
You'd get your 20 points for Cav and 5 for each of the others, so 60 points or so, but I would doubt any of them would come in the top 20 really, bar Cav.

Better to go for people finishing in the top 20, perhaps augmented by a couple of brits, maybe GT for example.

The road race will be much easy to pick anyway due to it being like a normal stage, im finding the TT hard, i want 5 DS's to feel like i have a strong team

and putting in mr Dekkers to free up cash wont exactly help either based on who i have picked and the lack of (current non existance to my knowledge) PC KM riders,

As usual all the TTers are all-rounders so despite the likes of Taylor Phinney and Dave Zabriskie being likely to finish top 20 I can't see them being massively popular just down to who else is in the that category. Hopefully next year with some added flexibility in how you set up your team we can have a bit more freedom on who we choose.

I think everyone is going to struggle to pick someone likely to finish in the top 20 from the PC and KM list, I can't find anyone that I'm overly confident of and to be honest most of them probably won't even compete.

Dave, if there are no/few sprinters/climbers competing in the TT and we pick someone like Dekkers or Hinault who are cheap but not racing will our team still be valid? I know having greyed out riders is fine mid-tour but usually you need a valid team going into the first stage. How does that apply for classics and the worlds?

Unless Dekkers is riding the TT then you cant have him in, it will leave you with the 9 valid riders to start the TT because its like the start of any new race, you must have 9 riders who are on the start list

yh but if there are no PC guys at all, what will the difference be as everyone's team will be invalid in that case

Just had a read through the rules, I don't think there's anything to stop you from entering Dekkers as your sprinter. The rules say that you have to have a roster of 9 riders, they don't say anything about whether they have to be riding that stage or not. By the way, Bauke Mollema can TT a bit, so there shouldn't be a total shortage of climbers.

Yeah but the rules are different for having grey'd out riders during a tour, i'm pretty sure you cant start a race with grey'd out riders as its then not a vaild team

I'm sure Dave will clear this up or move some of the riders into different categories to cover that issue

you just have to have nine riders selected. doesn't matter if they're greyed out.

Thought so, thanks Dave

well mollema isnt doing the TT and i cant see any of them doing it tbh, especially when teams can only select two

Well i have a TT team lined up, but pretty annoyed that its not going to be limited by country rather than team, because i want to put in 3 from the same team, but can't even though they are from 3 different countries and as they are racing for their countries, i dont see why it should be limited by team

Gkam - from what Dave's said, it seems that the system of only having 2 people per team is written pretty deeply into the codebase, so changing it would be an absolutely enormous job.

Can each country really only enter 2 people for the TT?

I dont know how many each country can enter and don't really care about that

But what i'm saying is, 3 riders all from different countries but from the same team, but i can't pick them because of the limit, which is just annoying because we're already limited because most will be all rounders and not climbers and sprinters, so i may not even bother with the TT properly because i'm only going to be able to pick a couple of riders who have a real chance, the rest will be DS and not do much, there will only be a couple of GC guys aswell

All limits are abolished. You can pick whoever you like, within budget. It's a World Champs beanfeast. Make hay!

Does that include rider classifications Dave?

Wow Dave, nice work, that makes it alot more interesting. Anyone have any idea how many riders per country are entered into the TT? Will GB be able to enter WIggins, Thomas and Millar or just two of those?

Thomas isnt listed down, GB will pick two from wiggins, millar and dowsett, and it ins only two per country as far as i am aware

I think Alex Dowsett would be a much more likely candidate for the TT that G, what with him being the new national TT champion and all. Though personally, I think BRad and Dave would be the safer choices

Yeah, Dowsett is TT champ because everyone else was at the TdF so that doesn't really mean anything.

GT would be a better bet except I expect him to be main lead out man for Cav for the road champs so they might save him for that instead.

Its even harder to pick a team now

and yh true about dowsett but he is one of the three that GB will pick from, im guessing they will go from brad and dave tho

I think you might look at the course before you put Cav in your team

http://www.copenhagen2011.dk/docs/elementer/20110913-1256-70.jpg

Thats not a Cav style course and he wont be in the final group after going round that 17 times, in fact i'd be surprised if he even finishes

Here's one for you all, will Froome be picked for Kenya in the TT after his exploits in the Vuelta or will Britain say "he's ours now"

and as for Dowsett, he's only 22 still so will he be in the u23 race instead ?

No froome will not race for kenya (i dont believe he can now)

Yeh Gkam, Cav was never gonna go anywhere near my team, especially as you can only have 1 PC guy, much better/cheaper options, i will take the 5 point bonus with my british rider if he happens to win

I know Alex only won because everyone else was at the Vuelta, but he is still the national champion and surely that has to figure into it somewhere. Though this is probably all moot because Brad and Dave are still the best choices

A bit more info on the course - 17 x 14km laps and

"The riders will climb 105 meters in altitude on each lap, which besides from the final climb contains at the 3,9 km. Slotsbakken closely followed by a climb on Attermosevej"

according to the official website giving a total climb for the race of 1785m over a 266km race.

Eh? Not a Cav-style course? Those bumps on the profile are about 25-30 metres each, if that.

If, instead of a one lap profile (with a VERY exaggerated vertical scale), that were presented as the full 17 laps, it would look flat as a pancake. Which is pretty much what it is.

And anyone who thinks Cav can't cope with anything but a flat course in the first place needs to look at his recent results

Shhhhh!

Damn, you've given the game away now. I was just having a bit of fun, and yes, the profile is massively exaggerated making it look hilly whilst being pretty much flat. Cav's going to be in my team as are most of the in form sprinters. I won't be picking any climbers.

Oh ffs, some folk dont understand, you put false things up on here, because look at the amount of players and then look at the amount who post

Gotta be people who are just sniffing around to get hints and tips, well come join the convo, else i repeat Cav will be lucky to finish that course with the profile like that

Ah, see, now I had you down as not being a fan of Cav's given some of your past comments about him (when the game/team selection hasn't been part of the discussion). So it's a bit like the boy who cried 'wolf,' you see...

I'm neither for or against him, i just don't like his attitude sometimes, which isn't very endearing

I often put false teams up with random picks in it to try and spark some of those who do not post to get involved and i also put up my "transfers" which were obvious points scoring guys out and no-body's in to see what people would say, it has grabbed a few people in and have started posting more, but i wonder how busy this forum will be outwith the pro cycling season?

So for the people who had a go, Eritrea only have 4 riders registered and Iran have 3 so i guess they couldn't fill their quota

Hey GKAM, have you considered Rasmussen for the ITT?
He's got some good results in ITTs recently.

Cav better take some KWELLS before he throws his leg over, looking at that coarse profile
GE fly through looks impressive

PS - I think Gkam84's a very naughty boy

He's my main man, going to thrash Fabian and Martin, don't give away inside secrets tho

What i really should have done was cropped the course profile to remove the metres and distance and made out it was the full course and put in some fictional distance's and heights

If you left off the height & distance it would look a decent challenge for Danny MacAskill

Your point being? Do you think there are no riders to take their place or that fiscal reasons take priority?

Are you ridiculing USA as well since they aren't taking a 9th rider, for reasons only known to them. Eritrea will still race with their full quota and guess what, Sohrabi is riding for Iran, with 2 helpers. Guess that's all they can spare? Why do you have to be so judgemental? Not the only nationals teams either, Russia and Venezuela are starting 5/6 and then there's a bunch of no shows from Bulgaria, Costa Rica, Cuba, Ecuador, Uruguay.

There are many reasons why these nations can't field a team but not having any riders to race would be one of the last.

Tuarts - i think you need to take some happy pills mate, this is a forum for everyone to express their views, whether they are right or wrong is immaterial.

I thought all limits were removed - but I'm getting a red warning message because I have three riders from one team.

Should I ignore it - usually the best policy with red warning signs, isn't it ?