Home

Seeing as the 2011 fantasy season is now winding down I figured I'd start a topic for everyone suggestions/requests for next year. I know a few have been given through the season but I thought it'd be more helpful for us to have our suggestions and requests for next season all in one place.

Other than having a little more flexibility on who I can pick (up to 3 ARs, 2PC etc) my suggestion is:

- Have a team reset button when doing transfers -
Basically be able to reset my own transfers if I realise I've messed up. While this is the basic reason it would also allow people who perhaps can't always make their transfers at 10:55 to make two transfers immediately when the window opens and then if they have a change of heart or realise that one of their riders has abandoned/crashed/been done for drugs they can reset their team to how it was at the end of the last stage and redo their transfers. Also this might stop people having to keep asking Dave to reset their team if they mess up.

On variable rider values despite being against it at first I like that the riders change in value a little throughout the season but I think variations might be better if they were slightly more noticeable than they are now. How it was during the Giro was probably a bit excessive, how it was during the TdF was hardly noticeable and a bit pointless (other than to mean that I was always 0.1 short of having the team I really wanted) so either no changes or more noticeable changes would be better.

80 comments

Avatar
JAndrewHill [1207 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

...and let me win some time

Avatar
Gkam84 [9086 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Yeah the team values need to be sorted out and hopefully its a SEASON long credits system, non of this re-setting nonsense, if your in at the start, good on you, if you start late thats your tough luck  19 I feel if it had been that way right through i could have had more points as i would have been able to pick the team i wanted with the amassed credits and not limited because the game was reset

Also, as many more races as you can and more overlaps aswell because that was great having to balance two races between your nine riders

I would like to see more flexible choices, but still so you can only have one GC guy and then pick what you want a bit like this

Want 2 sprinters, then fine, you can only have 1 AR, same with climbers

But if you want 3 AR them you can only have 3 DS, slightly flexible, but not hugely

I dont want to see a team reset button, because thats just a cop out, if you make a mistake, thats your fault, dont go making it easy

Avatar
thefatcyclist [543 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

A separate league table where our choices get points for the time not the position over the line on stages. So if the first 50 riders have the same time they get the same points whatever that might be. Then the next group gets less points etc etc. This makes up for riders sitting up and being placed lower down than if the had continued to ride. But it would have to ba a stand alone separate competition.

One would think that unlimited choices within budget would make the game easier but it does not(halfords). I would not go there.

I would like to be able to carry 1 transfer over once per small tour. 3 times per grand tour.

Maybe have a wild card section where we could pick 1 rider from any speciality.

I would not like to see a reset button, even though there are times when I could have used it, like inadvertantly having 3 riders from same team and having to take one out. It allows us to banter more on the forum, and avoids people changing due to that chat.

Avatar
drheaton [3318 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
Gkam84 wrote:

Yeah the team values need to be sorted out and hopefully its a SEASON long credits system, non of this re-setting nonsense, if your in at the start, good on you, if you start late thats your tough luck

To be honest I completely disagree on this point, the way the prizes are dished out means that really it's not a season long game. You get the big prizes, bikes worth £1k+, for the three GTs and the season long prize is 'just' a £200 Evans voucher so in prize terms the season long comp isn't as important as the three GTs. As far as I'm concerned the Giro, TdF and Vuelta feel like separate competitions with major prizes and the season long prize tacked on the end.

If you don't reset then going into the TdF the top 50-100 players from the Giro will have a massive advantage over everyone else and you run the risk of the same people winning every GT. If you reset then players who only want to play the GTs or even the TdF (and who are we to discriminate against them?) will have as much chance as anyone else to do well. Whatever happens those who make the right picks will do well but the reset evens the playing field for the start of each GT. 'Forcing' people to play the whole game would be counterproductive for the site and the game and if people feel like they're not being given a chance they won't play.

thefatcyclist wrote:

I would like to be able to carry 1 transfer over once per small tour. 3 times per grand tour.

I agree on carrying over transfers, if I choose not make transfers on one stage it'd be nice to have those to use later on and it adds another element to the game, choosing not to make changes one day in order to carry them forwards to later in the game. Maybe a max of two transfers carried over so you can only ever have four and all carried over transfers are reset on rest days?

Another option might be to have a 'wildcard' where, if you play it in a transfer window, you get double transfers. That means if you were to play your wildcard during a normal Grand Tour transfer window you'd get four transfers instead of two BUT you can also play it on a rest day and get eight transfers instead of four thus adding a skill element to choosing when to play it.

Avatar
simon F [1001 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

My sixpennorth of gawd help us :-

If the GT's are still to be separate comps, then a value reset at the start seems fair but maybe, after the GT finishes, your team value could be reset to the greater of it's value at the end of the tour and it's value before the reset for those who are taking part for the whole season.

drheaton wrote:

Maybe a max of two transfers carried over so you can only ever have four and all carried over transfers are reset on rest days?

This seems good, and fair, to me.

I would also like to see more races (particularly more of the one week races) but I wasn't mad keen on the overlapping so that could be difficult. Maybe having a larger budget and running two teams? You could choose to spend it all on one race or split into two lower value teams.

On similar lines, I would like to see some women's racing included. Perhaps everyone should have to have a women's team as well? If that would put people off, maybe it could be a separate competition, running in parallel. There are some very good women racers around with not much support and maybe 4 or 5000 road.cc competitors wanting to know about the races would boost the profile a little.

Avatar
drheaton [3318 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
simon F wrote:

I would also like to see more races (particularly more of the one week races) but I wasn't mad keen on the overlapping so that could be difficult. Maybe having a larger budget and running two teams? You could choose to spend it all on one race or split into two lower value teams.

I agree, more one week races like the ENECO tour and the tour of Poland would be good as well as the Tour of Britain. Some women's races may be good too but I suspect that, like some of the smaller tours, getting the level of information required to run the fantasy game including intermediate sprints, mountain points and getting actual results in a timely manner may make some races unworkable for fantasy purposes. Even some of the bigger stage races like the Tour de Suisse were terrible for getting information.

I think that two teams where races overlap could be good and that was mentioned a while ago during the Dauphine/Suisse crossover. Maybe it could just be easier to allow unlimited transfers during overlaps so that you can still pick and choose who you want and which race they're in but it allows more flexibility.

Also, please don't drop the purist comp, it's great fun!

Avatar
drheaton [3318 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Also, I don't think the Consistency league works, the same people (person) who's at the top of the season league is at the top of the Consistency league so it doesn't really work as intended (ie giving something for people who joined mid season to try and win).

How about a UCI style world rankings instead? Score the top few teams in each stage and add the scores up at the end of the season to get a ranking. Maybe 100 points for a stage win down to 50 in sixth then reducing in 5 point gaps to 11th and then one point gaps to 35th

100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25, 24, 23, 22, 21, 20, 19... down to 1 point for 35th place?

That way if you're inconsistent but every few stages you get in the top 10 point scores you could beat someone who's consistently top 50.

Avatar
Gkam84 [9086 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
drheaton wrote:
Gkam84 wrote:

Yeah the team values need to be sorted out and hopefully its a SEASON long credits system, non of this re-setting nonsense, if your in at the start, good on you, if you start late thats your tough luck

To be honest I completely disagree on this point, the way the prizes are dished out means that really it's not a season long game. You get the big prizes, bikes worth £1k+, for the three GTs and the season long prize is 'just' a £200 Evans voucher so in prize terms the season long comp isn't as important as the three GTs. As far as I'm concerned the Giro, TdF and Vuelta feel like separate competitions with major prizes and the season long prize tacked on the end.

If you don't reset then going into the TdF the top 50-100 players from the Giro will have a massive advantage over everyone else and you run the risk of the same people winning every GT. If you reset then players who only want to play the GTs or even the TdF (and who are we to discriminate against them?) will have as much chance as anyone else to do well. Whatever happens those who make the right picks will do well but the reset evens the playing field for the start of each GT. 'Forcing' people to play the whole game would be counterproductive for the site and the game and if people feel like they're not being given a chance they won't play.

That all depends on IF Evans donate prizes again??

I think there should be season long credit though and if there are prizes going to be offered then its off benefit to play the whole season, if you just want to play a one off GT then you'll just have to be lucky and pick well

There was only 7 stages before the Giro this year and the gain over others was not that much. But with the game going to be started in January next year, the gain could be much greater  4

So say it did go that way and I happened to win one of the prizes for one of the GT's, then that should automatically rule me out of a prize for the rest of the game, even the way it was re-set this season, it still meant that someone could go on to win Giro, TdF and Vuelta if they picked the right guys, so i would hope they wouldn't win all the top prizes??

drheaton wrote:

Also, I don't think the Consistency league works, the same people (person) who's at the top of the season league is at the top of the Consistency league so it doesn't really work as intended (ie giving something for people who joined mid season to try and win).

I agree with the consistency not working at all, It is the same person that is top in both, scrap it all together in my eyes

The other thing, is LIMIT everyone to 1 team, because i've seen on the forum that others have more than one, which if not in the rules it should be. Although, if you wanted to have 2 one for the normal and one for the pursuits, then name your teams the name but put (pursuit) afterwards??

Avatar
thefatcyclist [543 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

"anyone found to have more than 1 team will be removed" or words to that effect is in the rules.

Avatar
drheaton [3318 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I can't find anything about having more than one team (I admit, I have a normal team and a purist team) but I did spot this:

Rules wrote:

You can only win one major prize (first prize for a competition) during the 2011 season. In the event that you place first a second time, the prize will be awarded to the first player without a competition win, and you will be offered a runner's up prize.

Avatar
Gkam84 [9086 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

So why do people have more than one then?

Yeah thats the bit i was on about, where you cant win more than once  4

Avatar
dave atkinson [6210 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Keep 'em coming... we also have plans of our own  1

Avatar
drheaton [3318 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

One thing that I would like that should be nice and easy. Better access to the game rules and guides without having to register. I tried to get some people from work to play the TdF this year but quite a few said that they didn;t want to sign up before finding out how the game works, they wanted some run down of how it works (basically the game guide you've already produced) before deciding to play or not.

Are you planning on including the Olympics next year. How will team bonuses for that, as well as this years World championships come to think of it, be allocated? It seems unfair to give all HTC riders 5 pts if Cav wins when his actual team on the day would be GB with people like Wiggins, Froome, Thomas etc supporting him.

Avatar
Gkam84 [9086 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Good point drheaton, i never thought about that, in theory, you could have alot of the GB squad if its left as is

Avatar
mike077 [4 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Less frequent transfers during a tour. It is onerous to log on every day and make transfers, maybe 4 per week same as Halfords would be better.

Avatar
mike077 [4 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Allow me to pick any mix of sprinters/ climbers/ AR/ Domestique, and if I want them all from Sky, why not ?

Avatar
Gkam84 [9086 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

No way, Halfords was a shocking game, want to keep away from anything they used

Avatar
drheaton [3318 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I think that the amount of transfers and the limits on who I can pick are part of what makes the game great, I wouldn't pay half as much attention to the tours through the year if I wasn't having to try and work out which DC is on form and likely to get in the days breakaway etc or acting as a teams sprinter like Kittel/Degenkolb.

I can however see the point that making two changes a day can be pretty hard work some days and with the competition running practically every day for three weeks during the Giro, TdF and Vuelta it can get a bit much. For this I'd like to see either the Purist comp getting a bit more serious with the prizes to encourage people to try this or having a semi purist comp where you can only make changes on rest days. That way if you want to play as a purist/semi-purist you can do and judge yourself against others doing that whilst still letting the people who want to play the full two-transfers-a-day game carry on doing that.

Another idea I had (which could involve LOADS of work by Dave) is to allow players to 'schedule' transfers ie be able to choose who you're going to bring in for every stage up to the next rest day and have these changes happen automatically without you having to log in. This'd help those on holiday for the starts/middles/ends of races as they can still have the changes they want but wouldn't give them an advantage as they might be picking on old info. If you could do that and then be able to cancel changes (ie schedule three days changes then have a change of heart after two and swap who you were going to change for someone else) that might solve alot of problems.

Avatar
JAndrewHill [1207 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

How about, for the grand tours, the points you get for the GC points are based for the entire race on the team you picked on day 1.
But the points for the stages take into account the transfers you make.
So picking who you think will do well overall at the start of a long tour is going to be better rewarded (if you get it right)
I get everyone is getting GC points at the moment for Froome and Cobo, but if you guessed that on day ibe you deserve a pat on the back.  39
And so if stage one was a TTT, you would be wary of picking the TTT specialists, and more strategy is required for the picks.

Avatar
Gkam84 [9086 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

So no GC points for anyone else but who you pick for stage one? not high five'in that idea  13

You might aswell just become a pursuit player

Avatar
dave atkinson [6210 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
Gkam84 wrote:

So no GC points for anyone else but who you pick for stage one? not high five'in that idea  13

one of the things we're considering is a tour bonus based on your starting team. A bit like what's described above, but separate to the GC points. So, you pick your team to start based on who you think will win, and play as before, with transfers and GC points. But if you picked Froome and Cobo on day 1 and they end up one and two, you get a bonus at the end of the tour.

Avatar
dave atkinson [6210 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

carrying transfers over: noted

also mooted: extra transfers could be available, but you'd pay for them. So you get your two, but if you want to make a third it'd cost you 10 points or whatever, and maybe even more for a fourth...  19

Avatar
Gkam84 [9086 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
dave_atkinson wrote:

one of the things we're considering is a tour bonus based on your starting team. A bit like what's described above, but separate to the GC points. So, you pick your team to start based on who you think will win, and play as before, with transfers and GC points. But if you picked Froome and Cobo on day 1 and they end up one and two, you get a bonus at the end of the tour.

Now thats a good idea, quite a hefty bonus?

So for instance, i'm on 1162 and cherrypicked the current leader is on 1546 and if that was the end of the tour, so a nice 200, 150, 100 for the top 3 and if i'd picked Cobo, Froome and Wiggo, that would see me top  4

Avatar
manolo [31 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

As far as how points are awarded during a stage:

I would suggest:

1. Stage PC: Each sprint have 3, 2 and 1 point available for 1st, 2nd and 3rd

2. Stage KM: Have the following points available.

HC: 5,4,3,2,1
Cat 1: 4,3,2,1
Cat 2: 3,2,1
Cat 3: 2,1
Cat 4: 1

It makes sense to me to bring the pints down just because an attacker could earn more points than the stage winner if there are a lot of mountains, but I think most people feel the real prize, and therefore the most points should go to the stage winner. On a mountainous stage, a rider could accrue a lot of mountain points, yet not wear the climber's jersey at the end of the day, which I think is more prestigious than just getting a lot of points, yet the leader of the KOM, at the end of the day only gets 5 points? I'd rather the rider get less points along the way.

3. For Team Time Trials: If your rider does not arrive with his team to the line I propose he get no points - or the amount of points the team he matched times with.

4. I'd also like to see the points available for the GC standing from the first stage, the Team Time Trial. In my mind if you get to wear the leader's jersey after the stage, why not award fantasy points for it?

Avatar
Gkam84 [9086 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I think your going the wrong way manolo, thats just making the game dull

If you decrease the points for mountains and sprints then your taking the thrill of trying to work out who might go in the break each day, if you reduce those points, people will just load their team with people in the GC to gain more points

For TEAM time trails, why should a rider who's worked his ass off in the opening half of the TT not get points for finishing with the team? thats the whole point of it being a TEAM TT the team works in whichever way the feel is right

Also, giving GC points for an opening stage TTT isn't right because then you benefiting from the team deciding a certain person crosses the line first, thats not a good idea

Avatar
stewieatb [292 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

[EDIT: we already have that]

Somebody suggested weighting the classics' finish line points as if they were the opening stage of a tour (finish line points plus GC points), so 1st gets 30, 2nd gets 28, 3rd gets 26 and so on til 10th gets 12, 11th gets 10 and as it is now from there on down to 20th gets 1.

I hope you get your team selection code from early in the season up and running again Dave, a bit of flexibility would be helpful  1

Avatar
Gkam84 [9086 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

One final thing i thought off that really came to light in the TdF this season

Is it possible to change riders category's for each race??

So to avoid having 3 riders in the GC: Team leaders, ok, so Radioshack didn't do well with the 3 they had in there, BUT you didn't have that set up with the Schlecks?? But you have it just now with Geox, Sastre and Menchov are GC, so why not the Schlecks?

A bit of consistency with that would be nice, either have only 1 GC team leader per race, which would be better in my eyes or make it fair, If Sastre and Menchov are GC, then i see the Schlecks should be aswell?

Avatar
nickobec [246 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

TTT & GC points, that has what happened this year in Giro & Vuelta. You need to pick right team and know the team politics. I did well in the Giro, lousy in the Vuelta. Why not keep it.

GC finishing order points for starting line up. Is likely to significantly change the way people play the game and adds to the complexity. You need to sell it to me, what makes it good (and yes Cobo & Wiggins was in my Vuelta starting line up).

2 transfers per day is good and I want to keep it, I do really like the idea of being able program my transfers in days in advance (I have missed 3 transfer windows this year, mind you one was the day I beat everybody in a Giro stage - go figure).

The Halford's game is rubbish compared to this (and I have played the Halford's game as the SBS game for the last 3 years)

Keep the mountain and sprint bonus points as is, even though the Giro, TDF and Vuelta do them all differently. Giro heavily favoured climbers, TDF breakaways + sprinters bonuses.

and my previous post in another thread on same topic

+1 for rider values changing throughout next season based on performance during season. Just make sure when some riders rides rise in value, other riders decrease in value. (ie average GC rider value before Giro is 30, Contador dominates his value rises from 40 to 44, end of Giro his values stays at 44, average GC rider is still 30, even if other 20 GC rider drop 0.2)

Like the idea of same budget for everyone in Giro, TdF & Vuelta, it is about fairness. Banking points for World Tour add to complexity, which I don't really like. Plus is it really competition if your team is over 220 points competing against 175pt teams?

Banking transfers, makes it more complex. Only way I would say yes is 2 unused transfers can be banked as a single transfer. And you can only bank max of 2 transfers.

Only 2 transfers makes you plan ahead, while you all where working on your Alp D'Huez strategy, I transferring in riders for the Grenoble TT (who could climb JC Peruad anyone), that is why I finished 7th overall in TdF (brilliant TT performance, too bad I picked Spartacus instead of Tony Martin, expecting afternoon rain, but went from 13th to 7th overall that day).

Again I like the simple 1 GC 1 PC 1 KM 2 AR 4 DS. 2nd choice 1 GC 1 PC 1 KM 2 AR 3 DS + 1 your choice any more adds complexity.

Other changes I would like to see:

Increased points for the classics, currently the winning rider gets 20pts if rider wins 1st day of multi day race the usually get 35pts, 20 for win, 10 for 1st in GC and 5 for leading sprint classification. Suggestion top 25 finishers in one day race get points from 25pts for 1st to 1pt for 25th. Logic, points at end of classic (325pts) roughly equal points for end of stage in multi day race with finish, GC, sprint, mountains and young rider points (310pts), Advantages nice and simple. Disadvantage 6th place in a one day race = 1st in GT stage.

Alternative 1st 30pts, 2nd 28pts, 3rd 26pts... 9th 14pts 10th 12pts, 11th 10pts, 12th 9pts ... 20th 1pt. Logic = stage + GC points.

Lantern Rouge is over valued, once a GT is on it is easy to pick the Lantern Rouge, they rarely change from stage to stage. Suggestion decrease the value of Lantern Rouge from 10pts to 5pts. Also award Lantern Rouge points for the last rider to finish a classic.

Avatar
AWPeleton [3281 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I'm about to swear - in fantasy football - yes i know we shouldn't use bad language on forums, but, in their game you get 2 transfers each week and if you transfer more players you loose 4 points for every transfer.

I think it was mentioned about extra transfers and losing points, seems a good idea though.

In the end the game runs well as it is and only needs a couple of tweaks.

How about a small prize for the winner of each stage, such as a pair of socks or signed memorabilia from teams which i'm sure Evans could get quite easily using their contacts.

Avatar
drheaton [3318 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
dave_atkinson wrote:

one of the things we're considering is a tour bonus based on your starting team. A bit like what's described above, but separate to the GC points. So, you pick your team to start based on who you think will win, and play as before, with transfers and GC points. But if you picked Froome and Cobo on day 1 and they end up one and two, you get a bonus at the end of the tour.

I like this idea but I'd hate if I did really well through a tour only for someone who's had a shocking last week to jump above me because they'd made some good choices at the start. Likewise I don't know how well it would work if going into the last 2 or 3 stages nobody really had any idea who was likely to win because the bonus was big enough to have a significant effect on the scores. That kind of uncertainty wouldn't be good for the game, perhaps having daily points allocated on who you picked at the start might be good rather than having a big lump of points at the end. That being said if you want to try and pick a team that'll do well throughout the tour for the first stage play the Purist game.

dave_atkinson wrote:

carrying transfers over: noted

also mooted: extra transfers could be available, but you'd pay for them. So you get your two, but if you want to make a third it'd cost you 10 points or whatever, and maybe even more for a fourth...  19

Any of these ideas, transfer carry over, transfers costing points (as long as the price is reasonable) and having a transfer wildcard where you play it and get double transfers for a stage would work and be an improvement.

Gkam84 wrote:

One final thing i thought off that really came to light in the TdF this season

Is it possible to change riders category's for each race??

I also agree with this to a point and when team values are reset to 175 the rider values should not be reset, it was daft at the start of the TdF that those riders in great form who's price had increased significantly were then reset to their lower starting value. Rider changes should be allowed to fluctuate through the year, team values should keep being reset. Ensuring an average price is kept for each category is also a good idea.

Pages