Rapha not happy with Torm

by 11speedaddict   January 25, 2011  

Has anyone else been in touch with Torm clothing ? i noticed their website showing"o ut of stock" on all items so i did some snooping. I believe Rapha are squeezing them legally so to speak.
i think this is disgraceful. However you look at it Torm is less than half the price for very similiar quality jerseys. I know some rapha fans dont agree with Torm but thats only because feel foolish spending so much more on identical jerseys. I have owned both brands and i wouldnt buy rapha again over torm BUT now I certainly will not buy rapha if this is how they act to competitors.
are they trademarking the stripe across the arm / front.
Its effectively bullying and more importantly its stopping people like me buying reasonably priced jerseys. What are Rapha saying " you pay our prices or take a hike" outrageous.
I wouldnt mind but by nature Rapha is retro through and through. their designs hark back to previous decades designs.
Anyone else feel the same way ? any Torm owners out there feel Rapha are dictating prices here ?

121 user comments

Latest 30 commentsNewest firstBest ratedAll

CLX1 wrote:
I don't intend to go into my personal details on this forum but you don't know how I prioritise my spending, you don't know what kind of home I live in or if I have a car or not.

Those of us who have responded are well aware of that. You contributed to the thread with information that *suggests* you're not skint. If the responses bother you then you could either give more info to clarify or less - or maybe none at all about your purchasing choices so we can't make assumptions about you from them. Or you could lie and pretend you ride a Halfords BSO wearing JJB stuff from the sale.

CLX1 wrote:
some of the comments made in this thread are quite insulting, the one that really p***es me off is the "all the gear and no idea", it's typical of the superior attitude of some roadies,

It doesn't have to piss you off, that's your choice. This is the internet - we're not all going to agree and people don't feel a need to politely respect others' opinions in the way they might face-to-face with people they know. I don't have a problem with ATGNI types, it's their money. I just hope it eventually brings good kit onto the secondhand market for people like me. Is there a Rapha fanboy forum? It might save you some grief.

CLX1 wrote:
the length of this thread is a perfect example of just how good Raphas marketing is

No, this thread is more about opinions on Rapha's pricing and whether another brand can sell very similar garments for a lot less money. If I feel something's overpriced aren't I allowed to say so? Rapha gets talked about so much because of the diverse (even opposing) reactions to their products and prices.

Their marketing may deserve separate discussions but it doesn't interest me, it's just marketing - you could say it's merely a means of separating MAMILs from their money Wink

Simon E's picture

posted by Simon E [1948 posts]
4th February 2011 - 10:57

1 Like

Thanks Ian it does sound like I've been mis-informed doesn't it - ah well, bit of egg on my face will probably do my complexion the world of good.

From what I now understand Rapha and Torm are talking to each other about all this and those conversations do have a legal dimension to them. One way or another I'm sure we'll find out the result soon enough. In the meantime us speculating on who's doing what to whom is probably not all that productive - so we should probably all knock it on the head for the time being.

Mind you, I'm sure the opportunity to discuss the relative merits of Rapha and Torm will present itself soon enough.

Tony Farrelly's picture

posted by Tony Farrelly [4136 posts]
4th February 2011 - 15:03

1 Like

Well well well, I was about to stop adding to this thread. I started it and I was thinking it's gone off on a tangent, but something's come to light. I believe, in fact I know, Torm will be back on sale this weekend.

Bombshell - I have now heard some of the details of the cease & decist letters.

And if it wasn't for the fact that I don't wish to mess with any legal case Torm may have, I would publish the details so other people contributing to this topic can see what a lovely company Rapha are.

Tony, whoever told you that:

"no legal letter was ever sent by Rapha to Torm. All they did, I'm told, was write to Torm pointing out that TWO of their garments (yes, the jersey and the arm warmers) were a bit too similar to Rapha's which was all rather ungentlemanly (or words to that effect), If that's the case it hardly seems to amount to legal bullying and certainly falls well short of threatening to send the boys round to"

Tony I will email you what I know about the legal details that Rapha had sent to Torm.

For anyone interested Rapha seem to think they own the rights to many details that in my opinion are present in existing cycle clothes. The details are very 'detailed' and I would love to publish them but it could predudice things. So Tony your "informants informant" has got mixed up with a different case, as i say i will email you the details if you wish

After talking over the details I actually feel like re-titling the thread back to bullying- its actually much worse than bullying.
I'll say it again = Rapha are pissed off with the price difference

I for one will never buy a single Rapha item again. All my cycling buddies will boycott Rapha forever now.

I wish Torm all the best for the future.

Thats me signing off

p.s. I have no connection with Torm whatsoever except just a satisfied customer.

If helmets had never been invented would you never ride a bike ? Discuss....

posted by 11speedaddict [50 posts]
5th February 2011 - 11:56

2 Likes

Peace in our time. Sounds like this spat is finally over. Torm have announced a sale to clear their current stock, and they've revealed revised design details. Looks mighty fine to me Applause

T4-Sub-white-back-9F40BD2A-B370-457A-951D-DE633DF50741-550x0-q80.jpg
simonmb's picture

posted by simonmb [360 posts]
6th February 2011 - 5:12

1 Like

looks smart indeed
big improvement
and cheap.
and the were cheap to start with
hurrah

If helmets had never been invented would you never ride a bike ? Discuss....

posted by 11speedaddict [50 posts]
6th February 2011 - 8:06

1 Like

And yet the most blatant copy, their arm warmers, remain unchanged?

posted by sneakerfrfeak [67 posts]
6th February 2011 - 13:03

1 Like

Wouldn't want to wear that middle one anywhere near a Spurs-supporting White Van Man Thinking

Simon_MacMichael's picture

posted by Simon_MacMichael [8042 posts]
6th February 2011 - 14:48

1 Like

I have to say that while I wouldn't have purchased Torm before any more than I'd purcase an 'Georgina Armoni' tshirt the new kit looks good and I'm tempted. Certainly you can see where the inspiration comes from but seems its no longer a copycat.

TheHatter's picture

posted by TheHatter [810 posts]
6th February 2011 - 16:03

1 Like

"He thought we were wearing Rapha!!"
laughed the boys on their Colnoga bikes

TheHatter's picture

posted by TheHatter [810 posts]
6th February 2011 - 16:08

1 Like

..and just to add fuel to the fire...the cost of Torm is now less than it was before....(albeit short term)

@ TheHatter...very good..made me smile/laugh as much as the 'Colnoga riding 'raph@ wearing boys' in the pic...

The_Kaner
FREEEEEEEEDOM!

The _Kaner's picture

posted by The _Kaner [413 posts]
6th February 2011 - 21:05

1 Like

So so tempting Devil Devil Devil Devil

jimmythecuckoo's picture

posted by jimmythecuckoo [1250 posts]
9th February 2011 - 21:20

1 Like

Well, I bagged one of the red long sleeve ones and very pleased with it I must say, and at such a great price!

Like the look of the new designs as well and will be getting more when funds are better.

Really pleased that they are back trading again and feel that they will be a better and stronger company for it.

posted by Bom W [30 posts]
10th February 2011 - 9:27

1 Like

Bom W wrote:
Well, I bagged one of the red long sleeve ones and very pleased with it I must say, and at such a great price!

Like the look of the new designs as well and will be getting more when funds are better.

Really pleased that they are back trading again and feel that they will be a better and stronger company for it.


First post promoting Torm? Lucky you didnt try this on LFGSS forum!

Fixie Girl's picture

posted by Fixie Girl [116 posts]
10th February 2011 - 12:27

2 Likes

Fixie Girl wrote:
First post promoting Torm?

Hardly FG. There have been many. Where have you been? Confused

simonmb's picture

posted by simonmb [360 posts]
10th February 2011 - 12:57

1 Like

simonmb wrote:
Fixie Girl wrote:
First post promoting Torm?

Hardly FG. There have been many. Where have you been? Confused

I mean the previous poster, its his/her first post… On another forum, like LFGSS that's a capital offence.. He/She should try it...

FG

Fixie Girl's picture

posted by Fixie Girl [116 posts]
10th February 2011 - 13:44

0 Likes

What? You're not allowed to make a first post - you have to jump straight to number 2?
How? Thinking
Overall I'm glad the whole Torm v' Rapha thing is all sorted now. Perhaps they can now concentrate on making an XXL top Wink

... ... need more speed!

JC's picture

posted by JC [126 posts]
10th February 2011 - 15:02

0 Likes

Second post!

I'm a lurker on here and didn't actually realise it was my first post!

I've been reading the Torm v Rapha saga with interest and I'm just glad I can get hold of their gear again.

I'll probably go back to lurking a bit and post my third post another day. Wink

posted by Bom W [30 posts]
10th February 2011 - 16:30

2 Likes

11speedaddict wrote:
the thing with ASSOS is they sell themselves as a textile company. constantly innovating. it clearly aint about the look

And clearly not still just about a woman wearing nothing but bibshorts.

Oh.

Assos.png
Simon_MacMichael's picture

posted by Simon_MacMichael [8042 posts]
10th February 2011 - 16:50

1 Like

Fixie Girl wrote:
simonmb wrote:
Fixie Girl wrote:
First post promoting Torm?

Hardly FG. There have been many. Where have you been? Confused

I mean the previous poster, its his/her first post… On another forum, like LFGSS that's a capital offence.. He/She should try it...

FG

Well it was a perfectly valid post in the context of this thread, hardly the same as coming onto a forum specifically to sell or promote something.

Having said that I think it's very commendable to be fixated on how many posts people have made, rather than what they're saying.

There's just nothing more worthy of derision than some total newb who's jumped onto a trend.

abudhabiChris's picture

posted by abudhabiChris [517 posts]
10th February 2011 - 17:11

1 Like

Fixie Girl wrote:
n another forum, like LFGSS that's a capital offence..

It's easier going here at road.cc, no stoning people in the street just for an opinion.

LFGSS is so anarchic they even have rules about how anarchic you are supposed to be.

abudhabiChris wrote:
There's just nothing more worthy of derision than some total newb who's jumped onto a trend.

STONE HIM!!!

Simon E's picture

posted by Simon E [1948 posts]
10th February 2011 - 17:44

1 Like

Nah, stoning's too good for him.

On LFGSS he'd have his testicles tied around NJS bars, to which Chris King headsets are then added one by one until... well you either lose them outright or you need a different sort of top-tube protector.

Of course we can only look on and admire such high standards.

abudhabiChris's picture

posted by abudhabiChris [517 posts]
10th February 2011 - 18:25

3 Likes

V funny post by TheHatter of the Colnoga riders.
I wonder what Torm were thinking in making items so similar to Rapha's.
They are almost damaging their own brand by appearing as Rapha knock-offs rather then a legit sportwool jersey brand. Like producing Burberry-ish check shirts, or polo shirts with the croc facing the wrong way.

If they can sell these shirts at a great prices (cheaper than many other manufacturers besides Rapha) then good luck to them (i've bought 2 plain jerseys from them) but there's no need to put out the designs that ape Rapha so closely.

posted by alty [1 posts]
16th June 2011 - 9:30

1 Like

I like Sportwool... I like Sportwool a lot.

I have 4 Torm jerseys, 2 colomba and a Shutt VR. I have, and always will have absolutely no Rapha in my jersey drawer. I detest the elitist uber-trendyism of the brand. The recent bullying of Torm has done nothing for their image in my eyes, and has even made Torm more attractive to me!

As for the marketing of Sportwool Jerseys, its an obvious rip-off of the real cyclists over at Team JVA http://internationale.teamjva.com/

Interestingly, of the Sportwool jerseys I do have, I have found an inverse relationship between quality (or at least my preference)and cost. I love the Torm gear for summer or layered up for other seasons and their sizing is perfect. Colomba stuff is great in slightly cooler weather, but limited in range... and the colour leaches a bit. With all respect to the guys at Shutt, I was hugely disappointed by their stuff... Big fat seams, weird cut/sizing and seemingly less breathable than the offerings from either Torm or Colomba. Of the the 7 Sportwool jerseys i have, the shutt is the least likely tosee daylight. Obviously, I can't compare Rapha, but I don't feel the need to.

My eyes prefer Celeste, my bum prefers titanium.

Jack Osbourne snr's picture

posted by Jack Osbourne snr [304 posts]
16th June 2011 - 23:13

1 Like

Duplicate post removed.

My eyes prefer Celeste, my bum prefers titanium.

Jack Osbourne snr's picture

posted by Jack Osbourne snr [304 posts]
17th June 2011 - 14:47

1 Like

Rapha certainly looks lovely, but when far superior technical apparel is available for far less I know what I'd go for.
Perhaps when I'm even older, and I start admiring myself in shop windows, and ride so slow I can drop my Giro for a cotton cap and need something to keep me warm whilst Tweeting with one hand and sipping expressos in a street front café I'll don some Rapha.
So really good looking stuff, but mental pricing.

posted by oldgit [27 posts]
22nd June 2011 - 17:08

1 Like

At the risk of stretching out a 6-month old thread even more, I thought I'd add my two pence to the whole Rapha debate. Threads about Rapha are like an institution on bike forums - the LFGSS one is now 114 pages long! - none of which can hurt Rapha in any case, as it's much better to have a brand which is as divisive as it is than one which creates a feeling of apathy.

In regards to the Rapha/Torm dispute - it seems pretty childish and certainly exceptionally niave to throw words like "bullying" around. There isn't a (successful) business around who wouldn't have acted in exactly the same way if a competitor began producing items extremely similar to their own. To do anything else would be commercial suicide. I noted a few sarcastic comments at the time but I didn't see pages and pages of forum debate when Assos stopped Asos from trading in Switzerland under their name; arguably a decision far harder to understand in legal terms as the chances of someone accidentally coming across the Asos site and buying what they believed to be a high-end jersey which actually turned out to be a Ben Sherman polo shirt seems unlikely.

Likewise the branding of Rapha will obviously not appeal to all, but to single them out as "all about the brand" is laughable given that most other companies push lifestyles for people to buy into alongside their product. For Rapha it's arty shots of cyclists, for Assos it's ladies in bib shorts. And though you'd think Rapha is so expensive if you actually compare it to other similarly placed brands it simply isn't - buy a ShuttVR jersey, a pair of arm warmers, cap and socks and the difference is £10 to what you'd pay for the Rapha classics pack with the same items, but I haven't seen a single post in which someone shouts about how overpriced they are.

The irony is that in most of these threads about Rapha the most vocal detractors - the whole "all the gear/no idea" thing for example - is basically an inverse snobbery. If you wear x and ride y then you are xy and you can't be in our club. It's just as elitist to make the decision as to who can be considered a "proper cyclist" based on what they wear/ride. For the record I ride a fairly modest Allez 16, but I certainly don't begrudge those who have the money to buy Cervelos or Colnagos regardless of their ability.

Anyway... just my thoughts. Also - nice to see a discussion about this which hasn't descended into knuckle-dragging homophobia as on certain other bike forums. Though I don't post often it's one of the reasons I like Road.cc so much!

posted by jijiandnoah [53 posts]
23rd June 2011 - 9:40

1 Like

You mention inverse snobbery. I honestly think that inverse snobbery has almost been a rule in cycling since day one.
Though I would have thought that came from older riders, the poker faced ones that like to keep their tallent and intentions well hidden, not younger riders.
I fall into the older rider camp myself, but my own issues aren't only with Rapha. I won't wear any clothing that blatantly advertizes it's manufacturer. The exception being clothing supplied by the bike manufacturer or other business that would be supporting me.
Currently I only wear club kit.
But as I said that Rapha is beautiful kit, and I think everyone who produces kit anything like raphas is a pale immitation.

posted by oldgit [27 posts]
23rd June 2011 - 10:23

1 Like

My turn to make massive generalisations now, but I do notice that whenever I go out riding it's always the old guys in club gear who wave and say hello. I generally get either blank or icy stares from the guys wearing full Saxo Bank kit or something similar.

When I am brave enough (and I'm well aware how pathetic that sounds, I just don't consider myself able enough yet and have never ridden with others am kind of a bit scared by it) I'm hoping to join a local club - I like the idea of having kit which means something, rather than something corporate (whatever the status or size of the manufacturer)!

posted by jijiandnoah [53 posts]
23rd June 2011 - 11:09

1 Like

I don't think Rapha are quite over it - this is a genuine question on their current questionairre (albeit a little tongue in cheek)

59. A new cycle clothing brand appears in your favourite cycling magazine/ website selling jerseys made from a merino wool blend and featuring a familiar three rear pocket configuration and contrast armband styling. When you visit their website you find the experience poor but the jerseys are a bit cheaper than Rapha's. Do you:

Buy one because everyone is wearing Rapha these days and you think these are going to be the next big thing.

Buy one because no-one will know that it isn't a Rapha jersey, but will probably think it is.

Buy one because you read a review that says it is nearly as good as a Rapha jersey but is cheaper.

Don't buy one because Rapha is the original and best merino jersey. Of course.

Don't buy one because the website experience doesn't inspire confidence.

Don't buy one because you doubt their customer service can compare with Rapha's.

Don't buy one because you have found a Rapha discount code and would rather go with a more well known brand.

Buy one and burn it. Post video to YouTube.

Other (please specify)
[/i]

TheHatter's picture

posted by TheHatter [810 posts]
23rd June 2011 - 20:01

2 Likes

In the words of Vic and Bob 'You wouldn't let it lie'.

posted by oldgit [27 posts]
23rd June 2011 - 20:05

0 Likes