Islabike vs. Self Build

kil0ran wrote:

How tall is she? Kinesis adult bikes go down to 45cm frames?

She is currently just 122cm tall but this build is going to be for her birthday in 10 months time so she should be around 127cm by then

Drinfinity wrote:

If you go for a cheap kids frame as the heart of the build, the geometry is likely to be horrible. For example, Apollo bikes on a size claimed suitable for 7 - 9 year olds have 20” wheels. On the other hand, our very small 9 year old is midway through the range of a Luath 24. 

Apollo bikes claim that the 24" is suitable for 8-11 year olds which would fit with what you say about your 9 year old being halfway through that size.

Drinfinity wrote:

A junk frame with a 105 group on it is still a junk bike.

Maybe, but the bike I keep at my parents (for quick blasts while visiting) is just a cheap Carrera tdf and I do get a lot of fun riding while I'm down there (and the hills are more challenging there).

Drinfinity wrote:

If you go for a Luath, you can still have the joy of stripping it right back (BB comes out really easily even on the one I replaced on a third hand Luath 26), polishing every part, putting on funky bar tape (leopard on ours), new cables in a matching colour, and of course the lush purple frame. 

Now you’ve got me thinking about it, I might strip and spray the 26 when it gets handed down...

If I get a bike that is already great I am less inclined to strip it down though.

Not an exact science but I have compared images (scaled to the same size) of the 24" Islabike/Procycle/Apollo and measured the lines to compare geometry.

Simon E wrote:

If cheap bikes had the same geometry as Islabikes then the latter wouldn't still be in business. In fact Isla may never have needed to start in the first place.

https://www.islabikes.co.uk/knowledge/why-islabikes/holistic-design/

Apollo bikes are stupidly heavy and have rubbish components. Even after you've sourced proper cranks, bars, grips and so on you'll wonder why you bothered. You can't polish a turd.

+1 to what Drinfinity said - either get one sprayed or just find a colour you find acceptable. She will grow to love it, kids adapt to change very well. If you don't mind using Facebook then the PREOWNED ISLABIKES FOR SALE and Islabikes Community groups are worth joining.

You may be on to something with regards to the geometry on an Islabike vs Apollo/Procycle, I will try and do a little research as to the difference.

I believe that the majority of the weight on Apollo bikes are down to the cheap components (esp. wheels), and on the really cheap end of the spectrum, steel frames. I think I could shave a good amount off the weight and get close to Islabike weights (I have been following a thread doing something similar to a Carrera Blast kids mountain bike).

This is not about trying to get an Islabike equivalent cheap, as has been pointed out, it is probably going to cost more than just buying a 2nd hand Islabike. This is about quality parent/child time and creating a bike together that she is really invested in and can be really proud of.

Simon E wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

I believe that the majority of the weight on Apollo bikes are down to the cheap components (esp. wheels), and on the really cheap end of the spectrum, steel frames.

The 2 Apollo 'alloy' bikes we have in our household are really, really heavy. And it's not all in the components; the 26" wheels aren't that heavy, they're just poor quality.

This sounds more like a project for you more than your daughter (though I'm not suggesting that's a bad thing).

I have taken on board your points and now discounted the Apollo from my list of possible donors. Still on the list are:

Procycle 24 Tour (still searching for weight details so may be removed shortly)
Triban 3 Junior
Giovanissimi (Planet X kids frame now discontinued)

If I can get a messy one for silly money then maybe:

Formeula Road 24
Moda Minor
Cuda CP24R
Dawes 24 Academy CX
Luath 24

It may end up being a project more for me than my daughter, but at the moment I am hoping that she will get heavily involved and result in her being very invested in the end product and a passion for cycling to rival mine.

Simon E wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

I believe that the majority of the weight on Apollo bikes are down to the cheap components (esp. wheels), and on the really cheap end of the spectrum, steel frames.

The 2 Apollo 'alloy' bikes we have in our household are really, really heavy. And it's not all in the components; the 26" wheels aren't that heavy, they're just poor quality.

I am following a thread where a guy is stripping back a "Carrera blast 24" to rebuild it with better/lighter kit. In it he says about the weight:

"Before I got out the tools I weighed it: the complete bike weighs 13.7kg, 5kg of that being the wheels."

Once he stripped it he weighed the frame at 1.78kg with the headset which I did not think is that bad and should easily be able to build a sub 10kg kids bike from there.

When he investigated the wheels:

"2.5kg a wheel seemed rather excessive, removing the tyres and tubes (apparently made of a black flexible form of lead), rotors (looks and rusts like steel, but also a lead-iron alloy), and cassette (some rust but a serviceable 7 speed) bought the scales down to 0.9kg (front) and 1.1kg (rear)."

That was the basis of my assumption that "the majority of the weight on Apollo bikes are down to the cheap components (esp. wheels)"

I have discounted the Apollo bike now, but because of the fork it has rather than concerns over weight

alansmurphy wrote:

How old is she?

 

I found an amazing Harry Hall (47cm I think) on Gumtree, almost sparkling new. Whilst looking on eBay etc there were the odd bargains, some in great condition, some not so. I was limited by a lack of driving and not knowing the exact size (she seemed a bit in between). Boardman do some good kids bikes and Halfords Wiggins are ok.

 

As for colours, there are wrap options too, or some good stickers for a white/chrome/black bike to add the purple magic!

 

She's 7 and this would be a project for her 8th birthday in November.

Great shout on the wrap option, I'll look into this

Rod Marton wrote:

My daughter rides a Luath and has a similar purple fixation, whch I managed to satisfy with a purple cycling jersey and purple bar tape. As I got the bike second hand she didn't have any choice about the frame colour. Do you think that would be sufficient for your daughter?

Seriously, the big advantage of Islabikes is that they design very child-friendly bikes, and any cheap frame you get is unlikely to be so child-friendly. Specifically it will be heavier and the controls more difficult to use - even on he Luath my daughter finds it difficult to reach the brake levers and uses the top mount levers exclusively. One specific issue will be the cranks, unless you get them drilled 105 cranks will almost certainly be too long, and using a triple chainset will mean that the Q factor will be too large. So the experience of cycling will be less pleasant. Hopefully it won't put her off drop bars entirely, but...

Personally I'd go straight to the Luath, the self-build is going to be expensive and time-consuming for what it is. If the worst comes to the worst and she doesn't get on with it, resale values are pretty good.

Thanks for that, it is good to know that others have dealt with colour fixated children and managed to get past it.

I know the 105 cranks would be too large, I would either use the ones that came on the donor bike or upgrade to the triple

Although the self build would be time consuming but if I can get the little one interested in the build and maintenance then it will be worth it.

As for purple bar tape, it is a great idea but I am not sure if it would be enough unless I could get a plain grey bike but I think that was a special edition bike so chances are slim.

peted76 wrote:

I think it's a great idea... the important bit on kids bikes are kid sized contact points.. so if you've got them you're laughing I'd say (you might need to reconsider the shifters though...)

I know what you are saying about the shifters and had the same concerns, but when looking at the Luath Pro they seem to use the Ultegra ones. So I am assuming that if the reach adjustment in the Ultegra is OK then 105 should be OK too.