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Training time for the time poor

I have a couple of mates who are far more serious at cycling than I am and when it comes to training they always advocate long slow base rides to increase fitness.
I can happily keep up on 50 mile rides at around 17 to 18 miles per hour or quicker if out with a club.
Having a family, two young children and a full time job fitting in as much training as them is simply not an option as for me family comes first. So can I improve at all without the long slow base rides and get faster or do I just have to accept it ain't going to get better?
I happily do three rides per week - a longer one at the weekend and use trainer Road. Total riding time in the week is an hour to an hour and a half for each as it's before work and the weekend one can be two to three hours as the exception - it's usually just over an hour and a half.

Any thoughts or do I fail by admitting that the family comes first. I also only have one road bike.

Cheers,

J.

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19 comments

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Johnnyvee | 6 years ago
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@peted76 - i'll take a look at bc for some roller sessions and see what I can dig up.  I may come back to you.

@PRSboy - yes I try to ride forearms parallel.

@muhasib - thanks for that I'd missed seeing anything about the update. Shame my sensors aren't Bluetooth.  Have to look at that some more. 

 

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peted76 | 6 years ago
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@Johnnyvee I have a bank of roller sessions which I print off and follow, if you're interested I can send them to you. There's plenty online, the BC website has some good resources.  Mine are mainly edited versions, shorter versions of what's found online or leftover sessions from our old club coach.  

At home when I can't be bothered to do a structured session, I just watch the last hour of bike races on yourtube.. my efforts just follow the attacks on screen.. 

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Johnnyvee | 6 years ago
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Sorry also meant to say - dave you're possibly right -I think I do need to push myself more.

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Johnnyvee | 6 years ago
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Barbarus - I used to run but knees not as good as they once were.When dog turns one the wife who does run will be taking him out. I might give it a go.
Dave - I've been trying to get on zwift but I don't have an i anything and my laptop is too old. So the cost of a new laptop or pc is a bit prohibitive since I may not like it
I am looking into it but it's getting expensive....
Actually does anyone have any cheap pc or laptop recommendations that work? I'm a little fed up of trying to work out what combinations work....

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muhasib replied to Johnnyvee | 6 years ago
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Johnnyvee wrote:

Barbarus - I used to run but knees not as good as they once were.When dog turns one the wife who does run will be taking him out. I might give it a go.
Dave - I've been trying to get on zwift but I don't have an i anything and my laptop is too old. So the cost of a new laptop or pc is a bit prohibitive since I may not like it
I am looking into it but it's getting expensive....
Actually does anyone have any cheap pc or laptop recommendations that work? I'm a little fed up of trying to work out what combinations work....

I saw a Shane Miller clip on YouTube where you can use an Apple TV console, he was comparing a 4th Gen with a 4k version. The 4th Gen is £129 at Argos so that might be a cheaper option to use for zwift than an upgraded PC or laptop. If you use a cashback site the cost might be about £120 net- also from apple online are certified refurbished at £120.

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dave atkinson | 6 years ago
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Quote:

I can average around 17mph over 50 miles but I don't seem to have gotten any faster despite shedding around 6 kilos in the last 4 months through trying to be good with food etc.  I've also dropped my stem by 10 mm in an attempt to, dare I say, get more aero.  Comparing to where I was last year the average speeds more or less the same but my HR has dropped for the same speed so I'm just wondering if or how the speed can increase.

sounds to me that you're doing the right things and your fitness and power-to-weight are probably increasing, but the rides you're measuring yourself on aren't necessarily testing you to your limit. try mixing it up by finding something that gets you out of your comfort zone more. a local chaingang maybe, or some 'cross or crit racing, or even racing on zwift. getting your ass kicked is the best way to learn to go faster, i find  3

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barbarus | 6 years ago
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If you have a dog then why not try running with him/her as an extra bit of cross training?

I think the idea of building base fitness with long slow rides is one that comes from pro training schedules and those guys are doing lots of high intensity workouts to increase speed as well as the base miles to improve endurance.

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Johnnyvee | 6 years ago
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Thanks for all the positive comments there  - I'll have a good look at those links and get that book ordered. Think you're all right that the long slow rudes aren't that important to what I want to achieve to achieve given that I simply don't have the time.

flobble and wellsprop I agree - think I was getting a little disheartened when I posted as eldest currently poorly so we've had a disrupted weekend.  

PRSboy - we also have a spaniel so I get plenty of walks too some of them are like jogging.  Currently on the general build TR programme half way through after using a Base build to supplement normal riding just seem to have platued. 

I can average around 17mph over 50 miles but I don't seem to have gotten any faster despite shedding around 6 kilos in the last 4 months through trying to be good with food etc.  I've also dropped my stem by 10 mm in an attempt to, dare I say, get more aero.  Comparing to where I was last year the average speeds more or less the same but my HR has dropped for the same speed so I'm just wondering if or how the speed can increase.  Think the thing is I ride before work outside to de-stress and try to go as quick as possible but I don't see it as training nor do I approach it as training. When the weathers bad I hit the turbo and TR.

peted76 - did you design your roller workouts yourself or find them on the Web? I have set of rollers but don't use them enough. 

Maybe I need to re-jig the training I am doing to be more focused and put some structure in outside.  I just want to be a generally good all round rider.

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PRSboy replied to Johnnyvee | 6 years ago
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Johnnyvee wrote:

PRSboy - we also have a spaniel so I get plenty of walks too some of them are like jogging.  Currently on the general build TR programme half way through after using a Base build to supplement normal riding just seem to have platued. 

I can average around 17mph over 50 miles but I don't seem to have gotten any faster despite shedding around 6 kilos in the last 4 months through trying to be good with food etc.  I've also dropped my stem by 10 mm in an attempt to, dare I say, get more aero.  Comparing to where I was last year the average speeds more or less the same but my HR has dropped for the same speed so I'm just wondering if or how the speed can increase.  Think the thing is I ride before work outside to de-stress and try to go as quick as possible but I don't see it as training nor do I approach it as training. When the weathers bad I hit the turbo and TR.

If your HR has dropped for a given effort, this shows your CV fitness has probably improved.  Increasing speed comes, I find, from shorter, more intense interval sessions that generally hurt at the time!  You can see them on TR if you look at the training stress score/intensity factor for them in the preview.

This will raise your threshold, meaning for a given perceived effort you will produce more power and go faster, like for like.  I presume you are re-testing your threshold periodically and raising the virtual power target accordingly...

I also find that speed drops at this time of year... denser air, more clobber etc.  Keep at it over the winter and enjoy the dividend in the Spring.

As Dave says, having something to aim for is good- go out with the quick group on a club ride or chain-gang.  Enter some time trials next year.  I really enjoy those on my road bike, no extra gear necessary as you are racing yourself.  I was very pleased when I first cracked the 40kmh average 10 mile on my road bike.

Do you ride low on the hoods, forearms parallel to the ground... this is apparently the most aero position on a road bike, will give an instant boost even vs the drops and of course propped up on the hoods.

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PRSboy | 6 years ago
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...and also, to add a not particularly scientific observation, you don't have to cycle to get some benefit of low impact aerobic style training.  I've been surprised this year by how regular brisk dog walks maintained my weight and fitness, in between 'proper' training sessions.

So, if you are out walking Junior in a buggy, say, then that's all aerobic time on the clock!

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peted76 | 6 years ago
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Yep all good stuff written above which I echo..

I'm also time poor (and not a morning person and I'm lazy) but I am fortunate that most of the rides/sessions I do are HIIT or training style rides.

With that in mind, personally, my own pin the tail on a donkey fitness guide is that, two sessions a week I'm maintaining fitness, three sessions a week  and I'm gaining fitness and I can do just one session a week now and again and not loose out too much.

Sessions I do indoors are, HR based and done on rollers, they last normally between 45mins and 1 hour - quality not quantity. 

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fukawitribe | 6 years ago
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Just to add to what people are saying - if there's one thing long, slow distance (LSD) is good for it's training you for long, slow distance. Thing is, it's very inefficient time-wise at that and there's not really anything more you'd get out of it that you couldn't get, and more, from a more structured and sometimes higher intensity set of activities bar the mental side and getting more used to just spending more time in the saddle. Sure it'll keep you fit, but there's definitely more effective ways to do that especially if you want a more rounded fitness and ability on the bike (which I guess you might if you're already on TrainerRoad). 

Speaking of TR, if you haven't already (which you probably have) then you could far worse than trying one of their training plans and also having a look at their blog

 

http://blog.trainerroad.com

 

.. lots of good stuff there. Here's some more links to things that might interest you as well, mainly about the mis-conceptions about base miles but also some good training tips and a heap of further references

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-myth-of-winter-base-training-for-...

http://endurancenerd.com/the-base-training-myth/

https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/should-you-do-high-intensity-training-r...

https://thesufferfest.com/blogs/training-resources/dropping-lsd-why-base...

 

HTH, good luck with whatever you're aiming for.
 

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hawkinspeter replied to fukawitribe | 6 years ago
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fukawitribe wrote:

Just to add to what people are saying - if there's one thing long, slow distance (LSD) is good for it's training you for long, slow distance.

I tried using LSD for training and thought it was extremely effective. However, my wife later informed me that I was just walking round in circles making "vroom" noises for most of the time.

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PRSboy | 6 years ago
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The TrainerRoad plans are excellent.  I did the Sweetspot 'Base' 1&2, sustained power 'build', came on in leaps and bounds just doing two 1hr TR sessions a week and substituting the long TR session for a nice outdoor ride, plus one shorter more intense outdoor ride if I had time.

Its tought fitting it around family life, particularly in the dark cold winter months.... don't forget its supposed to be fun!

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David Arthur @d... | 6 years ago
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Can recommend have a read of Chris Carmichael's Time Crunched Cyclist book, lots of good stuff in there for people that have limited time. There are also a lot of studies that show shorter higher intensity efforts are more beneficial if you are time poor compared to long slow base rides

If you want to get faster, you have to train at riding faster, which means intervals and short fast rides. Long slow rides just make you good at riding slowly

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flobble | 6 years ago
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Very much depends on what your objectives are, and then tailoring your limited training time so that it's more specific to those objectives, rather than just putting in time on the bike.
You might find that 3x1h on the turbo to be more effective than 2x1.5h, especially if those sessions include some chunky interval work, e.g. the famous 2x20 sweet spot intervals.

Another thing I have (slowly) learned is the importance of sleep - getting up earlier means going to bed earlier too. And eating real food. When you're running around like a headless chicken looking after the little monsters, it's all too easy to try and get by on less sleep, and eat whatever is to hand. Doesn't work. Eat well and sleep well - you'll not only be a better cyclist but a better parent too.

This is worth a read: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Time-Crunched-Cyclist-Racing-Winning-Fitness-Athlete/dp/1937715507/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

Finally: "do I fail by admitting that the family comes first?" That sounds like the exact opposite of failure to me.

 

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Canyon48 replied to flobble | 6 years ago
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flobble wrote:

Finally: "do I fail by admitting that the family comes first?" That sounds like the exact opposite of failure to me.

Ditto.

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mtbtomo | 6 years ago
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That's more than enough but every session needs to be good quality.

I do between 5-10 hours a week depending on it being a hard week or an easy week. That's a longer weekend ride and 3 or 4 x 1 hour turbo sessions in the week. Its just about enough to hang in the bunch in 3/4 road racing and do 23mins for a 10mile TT.

Should be steady base miles, not necessarily slow - i.e. not easy but not hammering. Its got its place but the reality is, not many people have that kind of time to do purely that - and you don't need to if you make sure every session is focussed.

Training to power makes it easier to ensure a quality session but you can do it with heart rate too, or even perceived effort.

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Canyon48 replied to mtbtomo | 6 years ago
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mtbtomo wrote:

That's more than enough but every session needs to be good quality.

This man's got it!

I'm in a sort of similar position with my riding. I do about 100 miles a week, with about 60% being commute miles. I'm doing no more miles on my bike than I have done for the past couple years, but I've got way fitter (and much better at long slow rides).

Rides of around 40-60 mins at sweet spot (with a few max effort intervals) - zone 4 with a bit of zone 5 - have really helped up my fitness. I can only really manage two of these a week though as it really tires me (so any other riding has to be fairly comfy zone 2/3 stuff).

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