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I'm eagerly anticipating the release of the Cento 10 NDR; it looks stunning and I love the design philosophy. However, I'm still very perplexed by the "Actiflex" damping.

Again, I really like the design and the fact the elastomer inserts can be swapped to finely tune the ride quality - but it just seems so horrendously over-engineered.

I have no doubt that it does damp some of the vibrations from uneven road surfaces and therefore give a better ride - Wilier say they have still maintained a very stiff frameset, again, sounds great.

I'm confused why they didn't follow something similar to what Canyon/Ergon/Specialised have done. Again, use whatever "special layup" they say they have used to create a more comfortable ride, but, instead of using a more complex elastomer damping system at the top of the seat stays - why not have conventional seat stays (and the greater stiffness they provide) and use a seatpost which can offer the same amount of damping with interchangeable damping media.

I have Canyons VCLS 2.0 seatpost on my alu commuter bike - it's incredible! When cycling over rumble strips/cobbles/etc, it totally isolates the saddle from the high-frequency sharp vibrations whilst my frame remains uncomplicated (and therefore easier to maintain and cheaper).

I am guessing that the reason Wilier chose not to do this is that Canyon and Specialised have already done it, therefore they are using seatstay damping as an ISP.

Am I being cynical?

11 comments

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Nick T [1101 posts] 4 months ago
2 likes

Because Wilier aren't really a design company, more of a marketing company. They license whatever tech the factory develops which they think they'll be able to market: different=marketing opportunity

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il sole [86 posts] 4 months ago
1 like

I have a wilier cento 10AIR with 28mm tyres...tbh, although the NDR looks ace, the ride quality on my bike is great. Imho there is no need for all the fancy gimmicks on the NDR...BUT, what do i know??? whilst on holiday in Italy this summer i bought a mag over there which absolutely raved about the ride quality on the NDR, so maybe it is worth it! 

I'm sure if you did buy it, you'd love it! My cento 10AIR is my third wilier, and i can't imagine buying another brand...

Avatar
madcarew [481 posts] 4 months ago
1 like

Point of difference is probably the simplest and closest answer

Avatar
wellsprop [633 posts] 4 months ago
2 likes
il sole wrote:

I have a wilier cento 10AIR with 28mm tyres...tbh, although the NDR looks ace, the ride quality on my bike is great. Imho there is no need for all the fancy gimmicks on the NDR...BUT, what do i know??? whilst on holiday in Italy this summer i bought a mag over there which absolutely raved about the ride quality on the NDR, so maybe it is worth it! 

I'm sure if you did buy it, you'd love it! My cento 10AIR is my third wilier, and i can't imagine buying another brand...

My other half is dead set on buying the NDR frameset and I don't blame her, it looks stunning.

As an engineer, I'm just a bit confused by why an engineer would have decided to use a fairly complex and expensive damper for such little relative damping. The answer seems to be "because it's different so should sell well".

I don't doubt that it adds a bit of comfort (probably somewhere in the region of knocking a few psi out your tyres). My girlfriend has suffered from back, shoulder and neck problems the whole time she's been cycling - she's a bike fitter, her position isn't an issue, most the issues relate to a spine injury she got horse riding.

I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Disc 8.0 with 25mm GP4000's, the ride is buttery smooth. My other bike is an alu commuter frame with 28mm GP 4Seasons and Canyon's VCLS seatpost, that's even smoother over rough stuff, thouhg the alu doesn't kill road buzz like my carbon Canyon.

Avatar
TypeVertigo [421 posts] 4 months ago
2 likes

FYI - The Canyon VCLS seat posts are actually made by Ergon. Theoretically you could add it to any bike that has a round seat post in the correct diameter.

Avatar
wellsprop [633 posts] 4 months ago
0 likes
TypeVertigo wrote:

FYI - The Canyon VCLS seat posts are actually made by Ergon. Theoretically you could add it to any bike that has a round seat post in the correct diameter.

I bought the Canyon VCLS 2.0 (Ergon CF3) in the Canyon sale.

The interchangeability and simplicity is the beauty of it. I wouldn't be surprised if the seatpost has the same or better damping effects than the NR frameset, but at barely any cost (relative to an overly complex frameset), it also doesn't compromise frame stiffness.

Avatar
il sole [86 posts] 4 months ago
1 like
wellsprop wrote:
il sole wrote:

I have a wilier cento 10AIR with 28mm tyres...tbh, although the NDR looks ace, the ride quality on my bike is great. Imho there is no need for all the fancy gimmicks on the NDR...BUT, what do i know??? whilst on holiday in Italy this summer i bought a mag over there which absolutely raved about the ride quality on the NDR, so maybe it is worth it! 

I'm sure if you did buy it, you'd love it! My cento 10AIR is my third wilier, and i can't imagine buying another brand...

My other half is dead set on buying the NDR frameset and I don't blame her, it looks stunning.

As an engineer, I'm just a bit confused by why an engineer would have decided to use a fairly complex and expensive damper for such little relative damping. The answer seems to be "because it's different so should sell well".

I don't doubt that it adds a bit of comfort (probably somewhere in the region of knocking a few psi out your tyres). My girlfriend has suffered from back, shoulder and neck problems the whole time she's been cycling - she's a bike fitter, her position isn't an issue, most the issues relate to a spine injury she got horse riding.

I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Disc 8.0 with 25mm GP4000's, the ride is buttery smooth. My other bike is an alu commuter frame with 28mm GP 4Seasons and Canyon's VCLS seatpost, that's even smoother over rough stuff, thouhg the alu doesn't kill road buzz like my carbon Canyon.

you're right. there was an interesting interview in peloton magazine a couple of issues back  with one of the technicians at Orica Scott. He said before paris Roubaix last year, he played around endlessly with Matt hayman's tyre pressures to get the right balance...of course we know what happened - he won the race on an aero bike. I think that as long as your frame can take larger volume tyres, they can offer the comfort which people require (especially with a tubeless set up) without the need for over complicated engineering solutions...

Avatar
wellsprop [633 posts] 4 months ago
1 like
il sole wrote:

 

you're right. there was an interesting interview in peloton magazine a couple of issues back  with one of the technicians at Orica Scott. He said before paris Roubaix last year, he played around endlessly with Matt hayman's tyre pressures to get the right balance...of course we know what happened - he won the race on an aero bike. I think that as long as your frame can take larger volume tyres, they can offer the comfort which people require (especially with a tubeless set up) without the need for over complicated engineering solutions...

I do, however, really like the design, it's certainly very elegant. Overly complex engineering solutions are generally very interesting but just too complex.

The irony is, the simple solutions are usually the best but the complex solutions often sell better because they look amazing (especially when backed up with fancy CAD, CFD and FEA) to non-engineers (see: normal people).

Avatar
il sole [86 posts] 4 months ago
0 likes
wellsprop wrote:
il sole wrote:

 

you're right. there was an interesting interview in peloton magazine a couple of issues back  with one of the technicians at Orica Scott. He said before paris Roubaix last year, he played around endlessly with Matt hayman's tyre pressures to get the right balance...of course we know what happened - he won the race on an aero bike. I think that as long as your frame can take larger volume tyres, they can offer the comfort which people require (especially with a tubeless set up) without the need for over complicated engineering solutions...

I do, however, really like the design, it's certainly very elegant. Overly complex engineering solutions are generally very interesting but just too complex.

The irony is, the simple solutions are usually the best but the complex solutions often sell better because they look amazing (especially when backed up with fancy CAD, CFD and FEA) to non-engineers (see: normal people).

If you like it, buy it! I buy on looks over anything else - no shame in that!!!

Avatar
wellsprop [633 posts] 4 months ago
0 likes
il sole wrote:
wellsprop wrote:
il sole wrote:

 

you're right. there was an interesting interview in peloton magazine a couple of issues back  with one of the technicians at Orica Scott. He said before paris Roubaix last year, he played around endlessly with Matt hayman's tyre pressures to get the right balance...of course we know what happened - he won the race on an aero bike. I think that as long as your frame can take larger volume tyres, they can offer the comfort which people require (especially with a tubeless set up) without the need for over complicated engineering solutions...

I do, however, really like the design, it's certainly very elegant. Overly complex engineering solutions are generally very interesting but just too complex.

The irony is, the simple solutions are usually the best but the complex solutions often sell better because they look amazing (especially when backed up with fancy CAD, CFD and FEA) to non-engineers (see: normal people).

If you like it, buy it! I buy on looks over anything else - no shame in that!!!

It's my girlfriend who wants it! Just waiting for it to get into UK shops  10

Avatar
matthewn5 [1100 posts] 4 months ago
0 likes
TypeVertigo wrote:

FYI - The Canyon VCLS seat posts are actually made by Ergon. Theoretically you could add it to any bike that has a round seat post in the correct diameter.

I've got one on my Cinelli.