Hors category climbs...

I've just started doing training for mont Ventoux this week. I loaded up my simulator with the route from Bedoin. I didn't have my MTB Cass on my Kickr so knew the cadence would be below comfortable. I took me 2.05 hrs @250W average, with a cadence of 70rpm. I began to really feel it in the kegs over the last 2 miles. I could of probably gone sub 2hrs with a cadence of 80+ rpm

I'm a bit of a part-timer with the bike, normally getting out once a fortnight for a couple of hours in rolling hills and putting the bike away for winter. My cycling-mad best mate persuaded me to travel to Italy to do the Stelvio last month.

We hired bikes with 50-34 on the front and 11-32 on the rear cassette. The ride started off okay on lovely smooth tarmac and gentle gradients but as the air got thinner – it's 2757 metres at the top which equates to 25 per cent less oxygen – and the switchbacks got progressively steeper I entered a world of pain. I'm a stone overweight as well which really didn't help. Nor did the beers and local meat and carb heavy meal the night before. I made it to the top but I had to stop four times and felt a bit delirious and had to lie down in the cafe. We did a couple more rides out there and since being back I've felt a lot stronger on the bike and more confident that I can tackle pretty much anything the south west can throw at me. 

Incidentally, we moved on to France because my friend wanted to do Alpe d'Huez and shared a guesthouse with a very experienced, middle-aged Belgian who fitted a mountain bike triple to his front and got up the top in 52 minutes which seems very fast to me. 

Assuming Strava's average is in the right ball park, which is 13% thats a seriously high average, same as stuff like hardknott pass but fair bit longer.

None of the Surrey hills (just) top 10% average so that is quite a step up in gradient!

Most of the Iconic climbs is less the gradient more the distance/time your climbing at least thats what i've found, mind you I've only done one Hors in Mt teide.

My fastest strava hill efforts are always (at least partly) out of the saddle. These don't usually go with a good overall speed though. Sometimes the freshness coming over the top is worth dropping a handful of seconds over.

I think we're talking about the average cyclist who unless quite light in weight or both young and light will struggle to climb 10,15,20%hills unless you do what I've done and fit MTB gearset to a road bike. I can reduce power down into the 200W range whilst climbing 20%hills using high cadence gearing

Most of the comments seem to be about compact groupset and 11-28/32 whilst climbing steep long hills. A hill like Leith hill is no different to mont Ventoux if you're prepared, in fitness and gearing. I've cycled up Mt Teide and it's long old climb.(maybe not an epic like Ventoux etc)

Those who did Tour de Yorkshire this year will remember that the first hill was an absolute swine. I saw and passed a number of light, fit riders struggle, grinding at ridiculously slow cadence 30-40rpm. I used 28 chainring and 40t sprocket. I was able to keep a decent cadence ave 78rpm max 98rpm. Don't get me wrong it was bloody hard first hill, I was in better shape when I crested it than some of those who literally dragged themselves up.

If you like climbing monster hills, select gearing which will allow you to perform at your best.

Bike Channel has a programme called Greatest Climbs hosted by Paolo Savoldelli & Massimo Boglia which consists of them riding up steep hills in Italy.   They often comment on how many climbing metres you need to have in your legs  (that year) before you attempt the steeper climbs... I think they'd wince at someone riding up Leith Hill on the odd Sunday and then tackling the Stelvio on their holidays....the gradients may be similar but its the strain it puts on your heart doing it 20x without a break.  Gears will help, obvioulsy, but unless you're used to it you'll soon be at threshold and quickly red-lining.   They do the climbs on a 36/28 and are constantly commenting on how much harder it used to be on a 39-23!    Lots of walkers up Leith Hill on Sunday, by the way.....  

Don't underestimate the gearing. Like Dave I am Cheshire based and for Ventoux used a few shorter hills and reps in the red. A lump at just 5% for a mile worked quite nicely doing reps with a 2 mile return where I was actually in zone 5 on the return got me used to pushing up while on the edge. It worked well for my Ventoux climb.

On the other hand, Mow Cop nearby has the killer mile with the last few hundred metres being 25%. Even with plenty of miles upwards under my belt I can't do the final slog on a 34-28 but can on a much heavier bike with 34-32. I think long climbs of under 12% you can battle and spin, there's not much cheating north of 15%.

That's not tale of woe, IMHO. A 13% HC climb that starts easy and ends easy means that the through of it was likely around 15%. That's as hard as it gets on a road bike. Pros weren't regularly doing climbs thay hard until 10-speeds and compacts were invented. Not only did you have a go, but you crested it. Chapeau.

But as has been mentioned, you were more than likely undergeared. Yep, you can train pushing lower cadences. But climbs like that are why pros use compacts and 32 cassettes, never mind us mere mortals. 34-32 is 22% easier than 36-28. That's huge.

I just rode this weekend with a much fitter friend up a 13% gradient with that same gearing difference and he cracked while I was almost-but-not-quite-at my limit. He proceded to destroy my PB by nearly 2 mins on the next (7%) climb. He's more of a spinner than me, so even though he's probably around 10% fitter he likely couldn't even match my lowest sustainable cadence, much less go 10% lower than that, for more than a few minutes. Which was precisely what happened. Gear ratios are a thing for a reason.

I think it is often overlooked that producing your FTP at say 90 rpm is very different when you get into the mountains and your lowest gear is only allowing 65 to 70 rpm at FTP. Your muscles are having to push much harder per pedal stroke, so the physiological effect is very different.

When I rode in the Alps a lot, I used to train on flat courses that allowed an hour or so of uninterupted riding, in a big gear that forced me to drop my cadence and push harder, which better prepares you for what is to come.

To the OP,

The first ride in the big continental mountains is always a shock, don't be hard on yourself, you now know what it requires and can be prepared for your next visit.

Pablo I disagree with power not being useful. If you can hold 250 Watts for 2hours on the flat, then if you're maintaining the same cadence, transfering the effort to a climb is very similar. It's all about gearing. However if you're over geared for a climb and can't get into your comfort cadence, it then all goes out of the window, re,power, effort and comfort

Alot of its in the head had a similar experience due to seriously bad planning. Anything I've ridden before/since like it has been fine but I've understood exactly what I'm getting into. I've tried 11-28 and 11-32 on a compact in the mountains and didn't really notice a big difference between them it's always hard as f#ck!
Running power helps with pacing but just because you can sit at X watts for 2 hours means nothing in the mountains. The only way of doing any training for it in the UK has got to be a trainer.

Good story, entertained me

Oh, Leith Hill was nice, White Down Lane and Coldharbour Lane were a bit harder.

If you're ever in West Berkshire, try Whitchurch Hill, just come back from there this morning, Streatley hill is just around the corner and has quite a harsh 0.5km as the middle half of the climb.

I will now admit that last time I did anything in the Alps I used a 53/42/30 triple with a 29 on the back. 

Got me up everything off the valley between Annecy and Albertville including Semnoz, Forclaz, Sasies, Colombiere and Aravis.

I had to stop once on the tough side of Forclaz (from the South) when I met a van on a hairpin and had nowhere to go. Was too steep to get restarted and had to walk a hundred metres or so round the bend.

That triple is now on one of my older steel frames so if I go back to the Alps I'll be doing old skool. I'm getting too old for HC or cat 1 climbs with a 34/29 bottom gear.

I think CXrdi2 (?!) built something Alps-busting. Not sure how he got on.

The 40/28 is what I'd run up front if I was going somewhere relentless and straight-line speed wasn't the priority. Not built it yet but some other guy on here has. My plans for trips abroad went to crap this year after a bad start vto the year on the health front, only just finding my climbing legs and still nowhere near what I was doing was year. Turbo trainer for me all winter. 

YW on last Sunday's ride?

I imagine that's his club kit too.

Yeah turbos can be a good base, and are decent for just enforcing a relentless slog. I think they're limited if you try to train by gradient (think my Kickr has a limit of 20% IIRC? but then it's down to your simulator to use that resistance properly) so you've got to make sure you're putting out a similar wattage as you'd expect, rather than just focus on the gradient (eg. you might calculate you need to put out 300W for an hour to get up one climb). I've pretty much exclusively trained by FTP in TrainerRoad but am looking to simulate some real-world courses this winter, to mix it up.

Where they're seriously limited is the magnification of every minor bike manoeuvre when you're right on the edge of unclipping and putting your foot down... The eeking round a hairpin, avoiding a pothole, correcting your line - all horrible mental challenges when you're midway through a climb that you just want to end.

Then there is the change in temperature and oxygen if you go high enough, as has been mentioned ^. Not sure I'd even want to simulate that in my garage!

Also, YW: your escape gear is 40/28?! Or is that the chainrings?

A cautionary tale indeed. Sounds like a fate that could have befallen me, as you've said, it's easy enough to get through the steep stuff in short blasts but in the UK there's little to prepare you for miles of climbing in one go. If I ever manage to get abroad next year then I'll stick the 40\28 on make sure I've got a proper escape gearing. 

The only other thing I can think of is a decent turbo trainer and something like Bkool running the gpx route of a famous climb. 

Seems like you're right on your limit with the gearing.

My limit is probably around yours: on a 36/28 I'm OK with a punchy 20% (couple of hundred metres-ish). Anything over that (25%, or a sustained 20%) and I need a 34/32 - but I could spin that up most things.

There's no real mystery to it: I live in Cheshire, so getting any sort of proper climbing in is a 100-mile+ all-dayer into North Wales, the Lakes or the Peaks and even that is nothing on what you get overseas.

It doesn't take long to turn decent base fitness into decent climbing ability: on Pyrenees and even Mallorcan and Canaries holidays I've seen real progress. But if you don't sustain it, no surprises - you lose it. Personally, I can live with being a not bad triathlete/TTist, and a mediocre climber who just sees what he can do uphill every now and then.

The alternative is repeats sessions up the most brutal local climbs you can find (possibly driving to them), or go and live somewhere hilly. And then if you really get into it, Sir will be wanting the upper body of a malnourished 6 year-old, which means I wouldn't be able to swim, or lift anything. It's not for me.