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Ribble R872 105SE vs Planet X ProCarbon SRAM Rival?

I've just started getting into Sportives and am currently riding a 2016 Cube Attain. No problems with the bike but I am thinking of taking advantage of the bike to work scheme to make an upgrade, as it's the only way my wife will let me spend a £1000 on a bike and spending any more money on significant upgrades is also out. Two options seem to make sense at the current prices:

  • The Ribble R872 105SE which seems to have a very well reviewed frame, albeit with a few complaints of a lack of compliance on longer rides, full 105 groupset and what appears to be a very basic set of Rodi Airline 5 Wheels. I'd guess that Ribble's thought process is that these would be the first thing to be upgraded but as mentioned above, it's pretty unlikely I'll get to upgrade them. another downside is I'd have to pay an additional £100 Admin fee, so save money from the tax man but pay it to Ribble instead.
  • The Planet X ProCarbon is a bit lighter and has a better set of wheels, Vision 35's, and a more compliant frame but there is just no up to date review available. It has a full SRAM Rival groupset(I am not bothered about if I have Shimano or SRAM). On the downside there are a few mentions on Forum posts that the bike suffers from high speed wobble at speeds over 40mph (I am not sure I've even gone that fast yet!) and that the front fork is a little springy when sprinting. 

I am 40 years old, 5ft10 and currently weigh 14st (that is going down but I doubt I'll ever weigh less than 13). I am looking to enter short and middle distance sportives next year, with maybe one longer distance one and will probably join a cycle club next year. And of course I'll be riding it to work!!

Any constructive advice welcome, particularly if you have experience of the bikes in question. If you do have alternatives to offer please remember I can only buy through the bike 2 works vouchers so please don't suggest anything that cannot be purchased that way or costs more than a grand, regardless of how brilliant it is.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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75 comments

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ibr17xvii | 6 years ago
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As the owner of a 2016 CAAD12 I would 100% go for that, at £999 it's a steal. 

The wheels are the only "weak" point of the bike, upgrade them as I have & you have an excellent bike on your hands for the money. 

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Johnnyvee | 6 years ago
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I live near ish to planet x and have been in a few times.  Last year I test rode a couple of bikes but they really weren't that interested in sorting me out something that fitted.  Being well over 6 foot it was a case of if you buy the bike and it's too small fit a longer stem.  I also asked about the admin fee and why it was a percentage and not a flat rate as surely filling in a form for one bike takes the same amount of time as another.  They were pretty unhelpful throughout.

I went elsewhere and hit an absolute bargain in Evans. They let me test ride quite a few bikes to narrow it down and were great with my c2w voucher.

As others have said I think you really need to invest in test riding a few rather than buying something that you may not like or regret. 

There are also some good sites like bikesales.org that can point you towards bargains once you've narrowed it down and some sites like pauls cycles iirc do some cracking deals on cannondale and giant. But Evans have price matched everytime I've asked them. Worth thinking about.

Buy what makes you happy but if you bought without trying and found you hated it you'll have however long you're paying it off over to regret it and not use it...

Just my tuppence.. 

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Roadie_john | 6 years ago
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Ribble and PX are great if you know exactly what you want, but the punitive buy-back rates for the C2W scheme for bikes over £400 and the admin fees mean that you're better off not bothering and just paying cash. Both are generally OK service wise (Ribble have been good on the few occasions I've had to go back to them...)

For C2W, and especially if you want after sales or don't do your own maintenance, go to an LBS. At about 1k there's lots out there and the differences are pretty minimal. There's no practical difference between big brand alu and cheap carbon. Ribble and PX are cheap, but that will evaporate in other costs pretty quickly.

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Johnnystorm | 6 years ago
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Playing Devil's advocate for a moment. You want to buy a certain brand of bike because it's the best vfm. This is in part because the retailer doesn't have a huge margin.

You begrudge them charging £100 extra for the hassle of going through a C2W scheme, something that means they dont get full payment for because the c2w company take a slice for the privilege of doing some admin with your employer.

Also, right at the beginning you're quite open that you're happy to dodge paying tax yourself because you have no intention of actually commuting on the bike (I realise you aren't the first to do this).

If you want to have a whinge, have a gp at tour employer for being lazy and not doing the admin themselves and just paying the shop in cash saving younthe admin fee, instead they've employed the services of a third party, so your direct sales bike firm has another tier to pay for, the whole thing their business model avoids.

Frankly, with end of year discounts and 0% finance deals C2W is a waste of time considering the hassle.

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alansmurphy | 6 years ago
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But it isn't if you find the right bike at the right shop and are willing to spend a bit of time. I'm looking at a Cannondale Slate down from £1700 to under £1200. The lbs won't do sale bikes on C2W, there's a shop 50 miles away that do and then there's Evans that price match and will get it in for me to ride. Think if I wait a couple of weeks they may even do the trade in any bike discount (usually comes late season) which would make it a steal. And it's effectively free finance and something the missus pays little attention to as it's not blazing out in black and white on a credit card statement...

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kieren_lon | 6 years ago
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Thanks for the feedback on the weight differences. Certainly good for thought.

I can't ride at the moment as I'm recovering from an injury which is a good thing as sales are starting around now.

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Punches Dragons | 6 years ago
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Johnny, it's not that I begrudge any retailer making a fair profit or paying the administration fee but I also want to make sure I get the best bang for my buck. The issue really is a lack of transparency and the description of the admin fee. At first I believed it to be simple profiteering from the retailers and my earlier posts reflect that but the reality is it's a payment to cover the extra cost the retailer incurs due to commission paid to the cycle to work scheme. It took me a little time to fully understand that, in part due to the vagueness of some of the retailers in describing it. If that cost is as much as £100 is really only known to the retailers. If a retailer decides that they can either reduce or not charge this admin fee to make it more likely I purchase from them then fair enough but that £100 is a factor in considering value for money. After all, as a relatively new returning cyclist there is lots of other equipment and ongoing costs that could be covered with that money.

Looking at the bike2work scheme, my purchasing price for the bike at the end of the scheme is 7% of the voucher price. I know there is quite some variance on each of the schemes and on some they barely work out different than an interest free loan so if you are reading this and thinking of using a cycle to work scheme then you'd best thoroughly check out the t&c's. In my case however there are considerable savings over buying on interest free or cash.

On the subject of retailers not making a profit let's take the CAAD12 deal for example. There are a few reasons, hidden from us consumers as to why CAAD12's are so heavily discounted but I'd suspect Cannondale have produced too many and are now offering good prices to retailers to clear out ready for 2018. That probably means retailers are buying these at a reduced cost in bulk and still making some profit selling them at £999.95. Since there is competition at this price one of them may forego the admin fee to secure a sale if they are still going to make a profit. If so why shouldn't I snap one up at a bargain price? If not then so be it. I just have to take that admin fee into consideration.

As far as not riding it to work goes, that is not an issue, or even a tax dodge anymore. I have double checked this with my employer and the scheme. The stated purpose of these schemes is to encourage healthier lifestyles and they don't give a hoot if you ride to work or not, simply exercising more, and costing the NHS less, is the goal. Most of these schemes were created when it was a requirement to ride them to work and have subsequently kept the names. When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense to encourage everyone to ride more and offer the scheme to everyone. My job involves a lot of driving so encouraging me to be less sedentary in my own time probably has similar benefits to those that commute on bike.

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mrp0ny | 6 years ago
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I used to be a big fan of Planet X, having 2 x RT57, 1 x RTD90, a DirtyDisco and a Stelvio. But now I would strongly suggest you shop somewhere else.

I needed a spare part - a cable stop insert for the downtube where the gear cable goes through the Carbon tube. No problem you would think, I can see they have 35 RT57 frames in stock (from the website), I'm sure they will help.

NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY INTERESTED. 

Despite several emails, there is simply no intent to help me.

 

So for this reason alone I would strongly suggest you leave Planet X to discover how important customer service is.

Personally, I will be shopping the other side of the Pennines and suggest the R872 is the better buy as you will be able to get spares for it with Ribble.

All the best

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

 

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LastBoyScout | 6 years ago
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I hired a Planet-X Pro Carbon bike for 2 days on holiday a couple of years ago.

I found it quite flexible, especially out of the saddle, but may have been partly the wheels. I would have prefered something a bit sharper.

I didn't notice any speed wobble, though - even up to nearly 50mph down a couple of hills.

I also found it a bit of a pain that I couldn't get a 750ml bottle into the seat tube cage - not a problem on my usual bike. It was a medium frame.

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Punches Dragons | 6 years ago
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Wheelbase got back to me last night. They also charge the £100 commission on a CAAD12 at £999. They did openly say that the £100 is the commission that bike 2 work charge them so it appears that none of the retailers are profiteering from the scheme just the the scheme operator. Still with 3 retailers offering the CAAD12 at the same price one of them may be open to granting a further discount or doing a deal if I decide to go with it.

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bobinski | 6 years ago
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I have to say I find your endurance, the amount of time and money spent contacting retailers and your time spent here on long posts, quite extraordinary. I don't say that by way of criticism. I thought I deliberated long and hard over things but you have my admiration. 

 

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Dantenspeed | 6 years ago
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Punches, I think you're going to have a hard time getting the £100 admin fee off a Caad12. The 105 retails at £1400 and the frame alone is £750 or so. How about persuading your LBS that stocks it to give you a standard bike fit or service into the deal instead? 

The Caad12 seems to be regarded as the best alloy around.

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kil0ran | 6 years ago
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Just got an offer through for the Ribble Evo Pro carbon at £699...

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ibr17xvii | 6 years ago
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I got my CAAD 12 105 last year (September time) for £899 at Wheelbase.

I was fortunate that they only had 1 size left which was mine so there may be further scope for a reduction in the future.

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peted76 | 6 years ago
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The C2W scheme charges about 10% of the voucher value, so that why 1) you don't often see discounted bikes available to buy on that scheme 2) you keep coming up against a £100 'admin' charge - it's not the retailer being awkward. 3) It reiterates that you should always expect at least 10% haggle room when buying bikes outside of the C2W.

You can get full Ultegra with the Btwin, also they are very well regarded/reviewed.

The Ribble I've heard nothing but good words about. Some of the old planetX's haven't been known to be the stiffest of frames. 

My money would go to the CAADX every time, however you might faff about waiting for a deal where there isn't one (see point above). 

 

Maybe you don't have the best LBS, but give it a reconsider, here's why, becuase you'll no doubt have another LBS within a stones throw. My LBS bends over backwards to help with all things. It sounds like you'll not be forking out for a full tool set anytime soon so no matter how many video's you watch, certain jobs on a bike need certain bike tools, without which you're back to the bike shop. Also my LBS were far more open to negotiating than any internet dealings, they sold me a discounted bike on C2W, were open and honest and built value into the sale. They also price match shimano prices (which is handy). However taking the emotion out of it, the most value I get from my LBS is the ability to pop in and get the mechanic to 'tweak my bike right', free of charge and there and then. I must have been in ten times for front and rear deraillier tweaks for various reasons.  You can't get this from online shops and you shouldn't expect it from your LBS unless you are a customer. 

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kil0ran | 6 years ago
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Another plus for an LBS is they may let you pay up front for a C2W bike whilst you wait for your voucher, which can take several weeks to arrive depending on how efficient your payroll dept is. I've done this twice, just time it so it goes on a credit card at the right time so the refund comes through before it's due...

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Punches Dragons | 6 years ago
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I emailed my nearest Cannondale LBS today being completely straight up with them about it. They have been very helpful in the past and have serviced my Spesh MTB so we'll see.  I may pop in tomorrow since I am off work for a few days. I completely get your point, peted76 about the LBS. There are certain things I just cannot do for myself or have the time/tools for currently.  Especially anything to do with truing wheels or hydraulic disc brakes. If they could match the £999 price on the bike2work scheme and I saw and liked the CAAD12 I'd much prefer to buy it from them, as long as they made some profit from it. I'd even pay a little more to be safe in the knowledge I had my LBS on side in case of any issues. In terms of faff, I can wait until Sep 9th when my company reopens the scheme (for some reason they only run it sporadically) to see what the price does on the Cannondale but I'd like to be decided and ready to go asap.

I too got the email from Ribble for a Tiagra ProEvo at £699.  Ribble seem to do this sort of thing. They did a similar deal last year by the look of it and even cheaper. I guess the weaker pound is hurting them this year. I have looked at the ProEvo before and it gets really mixed bag reviews. It's not for me but it's certainly a competitive deal at that price point.

 

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Punches Dragons | 6 years ago
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My LBS got back to me this morning, They cannot get the CAAD12 105 in what I believe my size will be ( a 54) but they can get a 105 disc at the very attractive price of £1200. The disc version is 570g heavier and opens up a whole new topic of conversation. I can see that discs may be an advantage for leaving braking until later while descending and give far more predictable braking in the wet but it's more expensive wheels to upgrade, more in servicing costs as I cannot service them myself, and probably marginally slower times for  the type of riding I am doing at the moment. They have a 56 and 54 frame in stock so I am going to pop down and take a look and have a chat.

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Dantenspeed | 6 years ago
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The disc will also take wider tyres which may be of benefit. Again looks like a deal and the weight is surely not that huge. It's a great bike!

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Punches Dragons | 6 years ago
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Visited my LBS and was very impressed by what they could offer:

  • A CAAD 105 disc all in at £1200 including the admin fee. I really like the Cannondale in the flesh and the Geometry is not that upsetting at all. It's a great deal and my LBS would be willing to get the bike in for £200 deposit and keep hold of it till the voucher comes through. They'd even be willing to let me buy it outright and refund the £1000 back on to my card while the voucher goes through so I could have it right away. It's very tempting.
  • Since they could not get hold of the 105 rim brake version I asked if they could get the Ultegra version. They can do the same deal as above at £1450. It is a bit more than I was looking at but it is an insanely nice and light bike and a really good deal.

Both bikes still come with the Aksium Wheelset so there is a very obvious upgrade path should I want to at a later date.

Edit: The disc comes with RD2.0 rims and formula hubs.

So I find myself pretty convinced by the Cannondale's now considering I'll be able to get them from my LBS and have the support and lack of worry compared with an a direct sales internet company or a specialist manufacturer based hundreds of miles away. In some ways this is a shame as I'd rather be supporting a British manufacturer but with the sort of prices available on the Cannondale they are just not as competitive. I just need to take a look at the finances a bit now and see which one I go for.

Thanks for all your help and contributions in helping me get this far! It's been a great help.

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kieren_lon | 6 years ago
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Good luck.   I'm still on the fence.

I'm really tempted by the cannondale but Merlin Cycles had some great recutions on at the moment too.

Does anyone know what the weight of the CAAD12 105 is?  Website reviews say 8.3kg but the Btwin is listed as not much more despite the CAAD frame and fork being significantly lighter.

 

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Punches Dragons | 6 years ago
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These are the 2016 weights on a 56cm frame,  I have seen 2017 bikes quoted at slightly lighter weights but not always with the frame sizes given:

CAAD12 BLACK INC. - 14.8lb (6.71kg)
CAAD12 DISC Dura Ace - 16.80lb (7.64kg)
CAAD12 RED -15.84lb (7.2kg)
CAAD12 DISC Ultegra 3 - 18.34lb (8.34kg)
CAAD12 Ultegra 3 - 16.5lb (7.5kg)
CAAD12 DISC 105 5 - 18.96lb (8.62kg)
CAAD12 105 5 - 17.71lb (8.05kg)
 

This guy stripped  down his 2016 CAAD12 105and had himself a fun afternoon:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137189

Obviously it will depend on what size frame you go for but between 8.0 and 8.1kg seems to be about right.

I know I was a little obsessed by weight but that is only one factor to the bikes efficiency and performance. It is just the most easily quotable one and easy to understand but it only follows that a lighter bike will go faster if all the other variables are the same.  As other posters have mentioned, the important thing is the ride of the bike and a lot of that originates from the frame design, materials and construction. I found that one of the hardest things to compare and research but a universal constant was nobody criticized the Cannondales ride, neither in reviews or here on the forum.

In regard to your B'twin weight difference that is in large part to the superior groupset and wheels on that bike. Where the Cannondale saves weight is the different alloy used and the design process that enables them to make a lighter frame and probably a better ride.  I am not knocking the B'twin but it does not have quite that level of frame design however  you do get some really good componentry to compensate for it.

I also briefly looked at the Merlin Fuse, It's a very similar proposition to the Dolan L'etape. I think I discounted the Merlin on the basis of reviews saying it was a little bit dull. They are now putting a Fulcrum wheelset on it which probably makes it feel different to the last review.

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kieren_lon | 6 years ago
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Thanks Punches - that is all good advice.   I discounted Merlin too.  Aparently their frames are bought / made bt Ribbble if forums are to be believed.

Most of my commute is flat (26 mile round trip) and that will be the primary use although I may enter a sportif or race once I have the bike and skill up.

The bike of the last 12 years has been a simple, steel fuji track fixed gear*  bike at 70 gear inches.  I upgraded the wheels and it weighs about 9kg.   I love the sound of a  light bike and am swayed by it but mostly by heart.  I could lose 10kg body fat and I don't think 1kg here or there is the end of the world on the bike.

I think in my case, much like yours as I read it,  there is not a huge margin to separate good bikes from each other and my decision will probaly come down to aftersale care.   I have a large Evans with a huge workshop and good staff near me and not much further a large Decathlon, again with a good workshop and highly rated staff.  

The CAAD12 105 is £1200 at Evans but they might price match as lots of other shops are listing it at £1000 now.    
The Btwin Ultra 900 AF with 105 is £800 which leave some change from my £1000 voucher for a set of tyres, helmet and bits and bobs.

I got my last wheelset handbuild from DCR Wheels.  I plan to get a set of his own brand wheels and run tubless with which ever bike I get.  Budget for those is £420 so I need to ride a bit and save some train fare first  1

I haven't riden either and am learning towards the CAAD12 however the BTWIN may sway me if it as a slightly less race geometry.  I don't want to be as upright as a sportif type bike as my flexibilty has improved from riding the fuji but being on the drops on that bike feels a little squashed with higher bottom bracket and (maybe) deeper drop bars.

---------

* fixed stigma disclaimer.  I bought this after my geared bike was stolen in 2005.  I wanted something that might be less likely get stolen.  I don't think hipsters existed in 2005  and I am not one  3
I like to go fast so I like that it keeps me at sensible speeds.  It's not possible for me to sustain much more that 45kph for any length of time.   I will need to develop riding at skill speed when I change to gears / freewheel.

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Punches Dragons | 6 years ago
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Kieron, I think I've read that Safety equipment is VAT exempt but when they put it into the cyclescheme they then charge VAT on it. You still get it cheaper than you would but the 32%(assuming you're not a high rate tax payer) you'd save due to not paying the Tax and NI on the safety kit is partially negated by the 20% VAT you now end up paying, which really only gives you around a 12% discount on the safety kit and you may be able to save more than this just by shopping around. 

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Ratfink | 6 years ago
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I've just scanned most of this thread so sorry if i'm repeating things,I looked at planet x before and i can't remember the figure but i know the percentage they charged on top was prohibitive using one of the two schemes my emplover uses (cycle plus) I'm sure it was 10 or 15% and they wanted it paid seperately to the voucher.

I used C2W to get a charge plug 4 for commuting on through Wiggle they have a seperate C2W section of their site and they honour sale prices and charge no admin,The bike was reduced to £665 and that's what i paid.

You just fill out your details and they hold it for 30 days until your voucher arrives.

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kieren_lon | 6 years ago
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Thanks Punches.
I'm getting a caad12 for £999 .Aside from the bottom bracket, people only have excellent things to say about it.

I'm spending £30 on mtb pedals with a price match (£30 cranc brothers candy 1). I'll probably get a helmet from decathlon mail order.

I can afford new wheels but my rule to myself is that I pay myself an allowance for new things based off the commuting money I save. The train currently costs me £10 a day so I need to cycle a few months before the next treat.

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Punches Dragons | 6 years ago
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That's no problem at all Kieron,

I have got the provisional go ahead from my wife to spend a bit more than I first allowed, albeit with a few conditions attached, so I am pretty certain I will go for the CAAD12 Ultegra rim brake version provided the wife conditions are met but if not then definitely the CAAD105 disc from my LBS. They were surprisingly competitive on price and it is very reassuring to have their support in case of any difficulties. 

My LBS was pushing the disc versions due to the extra stopping power when descending and the increased predictability and that the weight difference(between discs and rims) could always be lost by me.  All very true points but if I went for the 105 disc I think I'd be looking at a wheelset upgrade shortly afterwards. The Maddux RS2.0 wheelset that comes with them seems to be; rather portly and not liked on forum posts etc. If it follows the rest of Cannondales ethos for the range the wheelset will be the most basic part. Looking at upgrades a set of MASON x HUNT 4Season Disc would be the logical upgrade but that's another £369 on top. That would give me a roughly 8.1-8.2kg disc brake equipped steed but with some small compromises in compliance and finishing kit (alloy rather than carbon seat post, a supposedly less compliant front fork due to the differing design and a different saddle). That's still a reasonably light bike if I decided I wanted discs.

That being said my local area is not exactly mountainous and most descents are relatively short and straight so I don't think I'll get all the benefits that I might from the discs although the ability to stop quicker in an emergency is always going to be attractive. The CAAD12 Ultegra is a much lighter machine at under 7.5kg and that will equate to a faster machine on climbs and accelerating, so overall a faster machine. I can get the weight even lower with a wheel upgrade. The Aksium elite Wheelset is around 1785g so an upgrade to a set of HUNT Race Aero V2's for £369 at 1435g gets it even lighter and adds a wheelset on that nearly every review says made a large difference. Add another £100 for an Ultegra Cassette and some nice rubber and I then have a nice set of race wheels and keep the Aksiums for training. It's certainly not an upgrade that needs to be made at all but it's a clear upgrade path should I want to at a later date and my overall level of fitness warrants it.

I have a few days to mull it over but I am leaning toward the CAAD12 Ultegra, it is £350 more than I was looking to spend but it's a much better machine and I'd have the support of my LBS.

 

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Punches Dragons | 6 years ago
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Put £200 deposit on the CAAD12 Ultegra at my LBS today. It was more than I planned to spend but it made a lot of sense in the long run. If I'd have bought a 105 CAAD 12, either in discs or rim brake versions I'd have been hankering after new wheels almost straight away and knowing myself I'd have bought them within 6 months of getting the bike. I'd have ended up spending roughly similar amounts anyway and then left with a bike which would be much harder to upgrade cost effectively. This way I get a machine that should not really need an upgrade, but has a very obvious upgrade path in the wheels later should I need to. If I do the wheel upgrade(and I need to lose around 10lb just to satisfy the maximum rider weight ratings on the Hunt wheels) that would leave me with an exceptionally light bike and probably more of a chasis than the engine justifies! The only other upgrade I think I may need to consider is changing the spidering to a 50/34 for some rides. It comes with an 11/28 cassette but I believe this cannot be changed without changing the rear mech to a long caged Ultegra. I think the stock setup will be fine for my local rides but I may need more options if I start entering sportives further afield.

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kieren_lon | 6 years ago
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The DCR wheels weigh about the same and are rated at 120kg. (At least I think as I'm checking from my phone)

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kieren_lon | 6 years ago
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Copy & paste from the website

DCR standard road, DCR 23mm alloy, Sapim D-Light spokes, alloy nipples (20:24)
£360. Approximately 1420g.
As above with CX-Ray spokes (silver)
£395. Approximately 1385g

The DCR rim is a popular alternative to the Archetype. It comes with a silver machined sidewall rather than black which is generally preferred. It is a more rounded aero profile. It is also tubeless friendly and it is lighter. They have a welded joint, a rider weight limit of 120kg and a spoke bed that has been tested to 300kgf (to put that in perspective, the original Pacenti rims were failing at 125kgf).

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