Support road.cc

Like this site? Help us to make it better.

BB30 considerations...

Hi all

Looking for some advice with regards to what i now know to be a fairly well documented problem...

I have a 2016 cannondale synapse ultegra disc and i suspect that it has already developed a creaky bottom bracket. Some digging has led me to a few bits of information:

1/ It is a common problem with bb30 bottom brackets which i believe mine is

[Edit: just realised it is a bb30a, so now unsure as to whether the adaptors will even work anyways...]

2/ there are adaptors available to relocate the bearings to outside the frame in the same vein as a htii bottom bracket setup. The favourites seem to be Rotor and Praxis on this front.

So with that in mind i am looking for some information regarding my options really, the cranks on the bike are the cannondale own brand ones that came with it and ideally i would like to keep the costs down as this is more a frustrating issue than anything more sinister. Would the cranks on the bike now be compatible with the above adaptors or would i have to shell out on a set of new cranks as well as the adaptor if i were to go down that route?

Any help would be much appreciated!

Cheers

Col

 

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

Add new comment

16 comments

Avatar
keeweeman | 7 years ago
0 likes

Cheers again folks, thanks for clearing up the difference between bb30, bb30a and pf30. I am off next week and going away for a couple of days with the missus so I may drop it into my lbs and ask him to give it a once over and try and address any creaks etc as he goes. Doing the slateman tri in llanberis next month so would rather get it sorted before thenoon!

Sergius, speaking from past experience I have only ever replace bottom brackets when they fail, although by fail I mean start creaking and showing signs that they are on the way out. That said most failures I have had in the past where when I was a downhill mountain biker so until the advent of hollowtec ii cranksets they were always either sealed square taper brackets that weren't serviceable or just bearings when I switched over to 3 piece cranks lol.

Avatar
pablo replied to keeweeman | 7 years ago
0 likes
keeweeman wrote:

Cheers again folks, thanks for clearing up the difference between bb30, bb30a and pf30. I am off next week and going away for a couple of days with the missus so I may drop it into my lbs and ask him to give it a once over and try and address any creaks etc as he goes. Doing the slateman tri in llanberis next month so would rather get it sorted before thenoon!

Sergius, speaking from past experience I have only ever replace bottom brackets when they fail, although by fail I mean start creaking and showing signs that they are on the way out. That said most failures I have had in the past where when I was a downhill mountain biker so until the advent of hollowtec ii cranksets they were always either sealed square taper brackets that weren't serviceable or just bearings when I switched over to 3 piece cranks lol.

That's the issue with BB30/pf30 it can be one of several possible issues and running it down can be a bugger hence the bad rep. I bet mechanics love it when a customer brings a BB30 bike and goes out the back and hides when a pf30 rolls in.

My BB30 bike you can feel the roughness in the bearing when you spin the inner race with your finger that said it felt like that 1000 miles ago and still runs silent bikes getting stripped and rebuilt after 2 winters and lots of hours on the trainer so about time it's done.

Avatar
sergius | 7 years ago
0 likes

Slighty off topic, how do you decide when a PF BB is "shot"?  My best bike has an Ultegra BB (I'm fairly sure at least - the part isn't actually listed on the Rose order), I've now done around 7500km on it with nary a creak or hint of any resistance from the crankset.

I've replaced various other bits as they've worn, but I've never had cause to replace a BB in all the time I've been riding - hell the last time I even took the cranks off one of my bikes was my BMX 20+ years ago.

Avatar
TypeVertigo | 7 years ago
0 likes

Guys, just a clarification: PF30 is not the same as BB30 or BB30A.

Cannondale's BB30 and BB30A both make use of bare cartridge bearings and circlips. As mentioned before, BB30A is slightly wider in bearing stance but is otherwise identical.

PF30 is a SRAM invention that has plastic cups that contain the bearings and have a lip that prevents the whole thing from sinking too far inside the bottom bracket shell - hence no circlip needed.

http://wheelsmfg.com/bb30-tech

http://wheelsmfg.com/bb30a-tech-info

http://wheelsmfg.com/pf30-tech

BB30/BB30A and PF30 also don't share internal diameters for their bottom bracket shells. A PF30 shell is slightly larger (46 mm) to allow for the plastic cups vs. BB30/BB30A (42 mm).

 

Regarding Wheels Manufacturing: I've ordered rear mech hangers and bottom bracket presses from them. I'm not from the UK, but so far so good as far as ordering is concerned - I'm pretty sure they should be able to accommodate UK orders just fine.

Avatar
mikecassie | 7 years ago
0 likes

I fitted a Wheels Manufacturing PF30 BB into my SuperSix earlier this year.  It was a doddle to fit but I did buy a spanner to tighten the BB into place as I like to do as much maintenance to my bikes as I can.  I'm sure a LBS wouldn't charge too much to fit one.  

It creaked like f**k before but it's good as new now, hopefully even better than that now.  

http://www.freeborn.co.uk/wheels-manufacturing-bb86-92-bottom-bracket-wi...

Avatar
Nixster | 7 years ago
0 likes

Good advice above, I can only add:

First principle of bike maintenance is to rule out the cheap things first so check and lube pedals, cleats, chainring bolts, headset, stem, saddle clamp and rails and pretty much anything else you can think of before pointing the finger at the BB. I just changed mine only to find that it's the freehub that's shot but at least doing the bearings was cheaper than a new freehub!

I see bearings as consumables and expect to replace mine annually, it's an easy diy as I have a cheap bearing press from Wiggle and a Park removal tool. The Park tool isn't a must have, any steel rod would do if you're careful but I strongly recommend the press. 

I have BB30 not PF30 although will do soon on a new frame. As soon as the stock bearings go I'll be getting a Wheels Mfg BB because without it there is nothing that aligns the bearings across the frame. If they're not aligned bearings wear faster and friction increases so worth doing I think. I don't think going to outboard bearings and a new crank is worth it for the reduced maintenance although not everyone would agree. 

Best of luck, I'm on my third Cannondale so the BB hasn't put me off!

Avatar
andsaw | 7 years ago
0 likes

I have started on my CAAD10 for second spring summer use and started to notice a slight creaking so dismantled my BB, cleaned it all up and used some bearing grease for the shaft and seals, tightened it up and then started to get clicking, so re dismantled it again and re cleaned it, but this time used Urea grease and it stopped, it is a bearing grease but not as stiff as other lithiun based grease, its very similar to Park tool Polylube, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50g-Extra-Heavy-Duty-Polyurea-Grease-Joints-Be..., i also had a bit of rusty gunge on inside of the drive side bearing and after cleaing it i put some grease on the inside face of the bearings hoping that will cure that, i have just bought some Loctite 641 in case it starts again, i also have a Praxis converter if all else fails.

Avatar
keeweeman | 7 years ago
0 likes

Cheers guys the advice is very much appreciated. Give that there seems to be quite a few possibilities as to what could be the cause and solution I may take it to my lbs and and sky them to have a look especially since tools wise I don't have the kit required currently.

Part_robot, I would be annoyed if the bearings were shot by now, bike is a few weeks shy of 12 months old and only about 1200km of use as my targets last year were geared around a triathlon so I was doing shorter rides for the couple of months between getting the bike and race day and then did the mark Cavendish sportive in August and it wasn't long after that the winter bike came back out.

Avatar
part_robot | 7 years ago
0 likes

Before you get carried away with thinking about replacements, are you absolutely sure it's the BB? The PF30 on the older models of SuperSix can suffer from this if not assembled correctly but it's much rarer for the BB30 on the Synapse from my understanding. If you have the Si crankset (either with the FSA or Spidering chain rings which are the ones I think you have), you may wish to inspect the big-ass nut that holds the chainrings onto the cranks. It is not uncommon for this to be the source of creak. However, it's not cheap to play with on a whim; you need a vice, a special dookickey for undoing it and a decent torque wrench that goes up to 60Nm or something like that.

Other things that could be creaking in that region that aren't the BB are the pedals and your cleats.

If those don't work out, try hawkinspeter's advice but note that it also requires fancy tools to get the crank arms off. (Which I happen to have spares of, now I think about it, so I could sell you them on the cheap or loan them if you're in London?)

[EDIT: also, you're probably due some new bearings by now anyway depending on how you use the bike. The stock ones on my 2015 were shot by 5000km]

Avatar
pablo | 7 years ago
0 likes

I have an evo which is pf30 which did suffer badly from this when i built it up. I found that when i removed the cranks and regreased the axle it would disappear for 50 miles and then return. I looked at many options including the wheels manufacturing (their are others out their now) had a think and realised it's wasn't actually the bearings but the shell width.
The shell is slightly under size in width and when my crankset was tightened up with all of the appropriate spacers (SRAM) i still had a very small amount of play which caused the noise when the grease was pushed out. I made some micro spacers up from the clear packaging you get never get into and this solved my problem. Haven't had a creak since and that Bike/bb now has 2500 miles on it.

So if i was you I'd regrease the crank axle and see if it disappears. If it does you may have found your problem. If you hear no change then the problem may well be the shell diameter out of spec to the bearing/cup only way to solve it is new BB, loctite, or a screw in cup bearing like the wheels manufacturing BB.

BB30/pf30 can certainly be sensitive and the only thing you can do is trial and error. My other bike is BB30 and the bearings will get replaced shortly after 7500 miles with zero issues they've finally started to grumble.

Avatar
matthewn5 | 7 years ago
0 likes

I built up my Bianchi Sempre Pro with the appropriate Praxis BB30 adaptor and then standard Campag Chorus cranksand have never heard a peep out of the cranks. It really works, and then you can use any crank you want.

Avatar
hawkinspeter | 7 years ago
0 likes

I solved the same problem on my Synapse (older non-disc model).

I found the trick was to use some Loctite 641 bearing fit retainer (e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/LOCTITE-BEARING-RETAINER-Bearing-Retainer/dp/B00AFT6FBE) when replacing the BB bearings. (You might not even need to replace the bearings with new ones, but they're not that expensive so you might as well if you're going to be pulling them out anyway.)

Put a small bit of Loctite around the OUTSIDE of the bearing shell (i.e. the bit that will be making contact with the inside of the frame) so that when you push them back in, they get bonded/stuck into place and that should solve any noises.

It's certainly worth a try before trying to change the bearing system with adaptors.

You might need to repeat this if you let too much water get into the bottom bracket - BB30s like to go rusty if you don't look after them.

Avatar
jollygoodvelo | 7 years ago
0 likes

The PF part means that the frame itself doesn't have a screw thread in it.  You need a BB where the two sides screw together and pull themselves into the frame, rather than relying on the crank to hold them in.  

This is one example - http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Wheels-Manufacturing-PressFit-30-To-Outboard-Bot... - I found a cheaper equivalent when I had the same problem on my Boardman and it works beautifully.

Avatar
keeweeman | 7 years ago
0 likes

is the pf30 not just a pushfit bottom bracket? i thought i needed a bb30a compatible solution with the additional 5mm on the non-driveside side of the shell? Also, with wheels manufacturing being a US supplier how easy are they to get stock from? 

Cheers for the help  1

Avatar
Jimthebikeguy.com replied to keeweeman | 7 years ago
0 likes
keeweeman wrote:

is the pf30 not just a pushfit bottom bracket? i thought i needed a bb30a compatible solution with the additional 5mm on the non-driveside side of the shell? Also, with wheels manufacturing being a US supplier how easy are they to get stock from? 

Cheers for the help  1

Speak to a decent local bike shop. My boardman had its pf30 replaced with a wheels mfg threadfit by a stockist near me.

Avatar
Jimthebikeguy.com | 7 years ago
1 like

Your bb problems are common and you pretty much have no option but to change it out for a better one. Wheels Manufacturing will sell you what you need. They sell virtually every variant but their bb's have a thread-together action which secures them, and the bearings are serviceable. You prb want a PF30 threadfit with inboard bearings, and they do three grades - cheapest, middle and expensive. I bought the middle one (comes with angular contact bearings).

Latest Comments