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A bicycle built for two....

Anyone on here got a tandem?

I recently had a go on one at an event at Lee Valley. What fun! So much so that I 'm borrowing one for a bit so I can get some miles in with an idea of helping out Camsight, a local charity, with their new project trying to get visually impaired stokers out with sighted pilots.

I wouldn't mind having one in the garage for fun days out with the kids, N+1?

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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LastBoyScout | 7 years ago
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I've got one  1 Quite a few friends have them, too, although we've not done any group rides.

It's an ancient Motobecane on permanent loan from a friend of mine who had a bit of a trust issue with her partner on it.

Originally borrowed for the Bishops Castle tandem triathlon, I raced it with a mate of mine - no-one told us you should put the heavier person on the front until we got to scrutineering (he was a good 5 stone heavier)!

I'd probably echo all the comments above about communication, especially when starting and stopping. Observation and forward planning at junctions pays dividends if you can avoid doing either.

Mine has front and back cantilevers operated from one brake lever and a rear drum brake operated from the other - makes adjusting the cantis a bit tricky, given cable stretch on the rear. I've seen other setups where the cantis are separated and operated by the pilot and the stoker controls the drag brake.

I use double sided clipless MTB pedals on it, as easier to get in and out than road ones and the shoes are better for putting feet down, as they have more grip. Stoker currently has flats, as my wife doesn't have SPD shoes.

Beware riding it for any distance alone, for 2 reasons. Firstly, people don't expect another half a bike behind you, if they only see one rider. Secondly, there is little weight on the back wheel, especially when braking, so be wary of it losing grip - as I found out when I unexpectedly started power sliding round a roundabout.

Have been out with my wife on it a couple of times and had a very entertaining pub crawl one Saturday night in summer with a mate - lots of drunk people doing double takes.

When kiddie #2 is big enough to go in a seat next year, I plan to put both child seats on for trips to local parks...

For transport, it just fitted diagonally in my old Focus estate with the seats down and the front wheel off - taking the back wheel off is a pain and best avoided due to the drum brake not having any sort of quick release cable. Don't think it will fit in either of our current cars and I don't fancy trying to get it on a roof rack, as it weighs a ton!

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Griff500 replied to LastBoyScout | 7 years ago
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[quote=LastBoySco

It's an ancient Motobecane on permanent loan from a friend of mine who had a bit of a trust issue with her partner on it.

[/quote]

What, you mean she came home early one day and found him on the bike with another woman?

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LastBoyScout replied to Griff500 | 7 years ago
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Griff500 wrote:

What, you mean she came home early one day and found him on the bike with another woman?

Ha ha - no, neither trusted the other as the pilot.

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CarolineF | 7 years ago
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Another happy tandemmer here.. My partner and I bought a tandem about 4 years' ago and have now ridden it about 17,000 miles! Our motivation was really that he was a much stronger rider than me and hence spent a lot of time waiting for me when we rode our solos. With the tandem we can bacically go as fast (or maybe even faster) than he could on his own. Although the downside for him was less rest - he hadn't realised how much time he spent stopped! We use ours for audax rides and also for cycle camping tours. The latter is a bit of a challenge as you only have the same number of pannier positions as on a solo bike, but for two people's kit. The answer seems to be back pannniers on a front rack.

On audax rides tandems do sometimes end up as the "locomotive" and it's not unusual to arrive somewhere with a train of following cyclists. It can be a bit disconcerting at first.

Regarding hills, our lowest gear is 28 back/32 front on 700c wheels - we can grind away up a 1 in 7 , anything steeper is a bit of challenge and I don't think we want to do it for very long. However we know other tandem teams who have mastered getting out of the saddle and relish the steeper climbs.

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Morat | 7 years ago
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My advice would be Go for It  1

Coming at this from a slightly different perspective I'm the stoker in an all male team, but it's hilarious. The "Captain" bought one from ebay on a whim and we wobbled off to the chip shop to see what it was like. Later we got more serious about it and he bought a brand new Cannondale Road Tandem which is a very seriously fast piece of kit, even with two Downhill Specialists onboard (crew weight approx 35 stone). Neither of us can climb worth a damn, but with a triple chainset we've made it up White Horse Bank and even Buttertubs non stop. 

People do tend to look at all male tandem teams a bit sideways. We've been asked if we're married "Yes.... (pause)... to our wives" and even mistaken for Father and Son but normally it's just a lot of banter and fun. Tandem riding has many advantages, as long as you get on as a team. I prefer stoking as it's very different to normal biking and I get to look around and see the scenery, faff with my garmin, take videos/photos and chat with other riders but it's not for everyone. Captains need to remember that the stoker is always right, even if the stoker isn't your wife  1 I've also stoked for my wife once, which went very well. There's no reason that the stoker has to be the male in a male/female team - it's all to do with how good your balance is on the back  and how smoothly you can both ride. I've found my pedalling is massively smoother since I started stoking and that has helped my solo riding a lot.

On the flat, Tandems rule and you need to be quite a serious rider to keep up. As a pair MAMILs, riding chain gangs of fitter, younger men off the back wheel is a little bit addictive, even if it isn't exactly big or clever. They get their revenge on the climbs but nobody can get close on the downhills as long as the road isn't too tight. We hit 55mph freewheeling on a  17% hill within 200 yards, and the Captain has decided that will be our record. Can't blame him as he needs serious grip to stop us with cable disk brakes.

On the subject of braking, bear in mind that you WILL fade/fail ANY brake if you are not careful. You can't rely on any single pair of brakes. Hydro Disks will boil the fluid and are a No-No on a road tandem. Cable disks take more effort at the lever but last much longer because they don't fade until you overheat the pad/caliper (We've done it with BB7s). Rim brakes don't fade, but will burst the tyre off the rim through heating (Got SO close to this the tyre itself was hot and rock solid). For safety you should have at least three separate brakes (disk, rim, drum pick two) and ideally two per wheel. Yes we're a lot heavier than normal tandem teams but we don't ride in the Alps, be careful.

 

 

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Rod Marton | 7 years ago
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I use one for rides with the kids, great fun, thoroughly worthwhile. There are a few things to note, though.

Communication is very important - warn the stoker of any upcoming potholes. A tandem handles like a bus, avoiding potholes isn't something you can do at the last minute. The stoker's position gives a harsh ride, too, so a suspension seatpost is a good idea if you can fit one.

If you live in any but the flattest area, a wide range of gears is essential. Tandems are very slow uphill but go like a rocket downhill. 40mph is easy, 50+mph quite possible. With my lowest 21" gear I have been up a local 30% climb with my daughter: the limiting factor isn't the gearing but rear wheel traction as there isn't so much weight on the back.

With children, I find that flat pedals with toe clips (no straps) is the best solution. A couple of bungees between the front and rear pedals keep in them in the right orientation. Crank shorteners are also a good idea with small children.

An unexpected benefit is that you get more respect from drivers. Of course there is still the occasional idiot, but mostly drivers are very considerate - perhaps because you look so unusual.

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Griff500 replied to Rod Marton | 7 years ago
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Rod Marton wrote:

If you live in any but the flattest area, a wide range of gears is essential. T

I note that a number of manufacturers (Cannondale, Dolan) fit triple rings to cope with this.

One question though: Without being able to look down at front and rear derailleurs, how does the pilot keep track of which gear he is in?

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Woldsman replied to Griff500 | 7 years ago
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Griff500 wrote:

Rod Marton wrote:

If you live in any but the flattest area, a wide range of gears is essential. T

I note that a number of manufacturers (Cannondale, Dolan) fit triple rings to cope with this.

One question though: Without being able to look down at front and rear derailleurs, how does the pilot keep track of which gear he is in?

You didn't get the memo? These days it doesn't matter what gear you're in. Apparently. 

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Rod Marton replied to Griff500 | 7 years ago
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Griff500 wrote:

One question though: Without being able to look down at front and rear derailleurs, how does the pilot keep track of which gear he is in?

I've got bar-end shifters on mine, so the problem doesn't arise.

However if you really need to, you can peer back at the derailleurs to check.

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Morat replied to Griff500 | 7 years ago
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Griff500 wrote:

Rod Marton wrote:

If you live in any but the flattest area, a wide range of gears is essential. T

I note that a number of manufacturers (Cannondale, Dolan) fit triple rings to cope with this.

One question though: Without being able to look down at front and rear derailleurs, how does the pilot keep track of which gear he is in?

 

Ask the stoker!

 

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DaveE128 | 7 years ago
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I have a tandem but haven't ridden it for a few years due to kids. Hope to be on it again soon once they are all old enough to ride with us, and then to get my son on the back when he's tall enough! When we had our eldest on the back in a baby seat it was like being a travelling circus, cars would stop to let you out, and you'd get lots of smiles!  1

It is absolutely fantastic fun, there's a real element of team work that is much tighter than riding in a group. However, don't assume that just because you are an experienced cyclist that you will not have important things to learn about riding a tandem. For the captain, technique for stopping and starting is really important, for the stoker, it takes a bit of getting used to not trying to steer the bike, especially when negotiating tight turns!

Communication is also really important as stokers need notice of gear changes, bumps in the road, putting the hammer down, easing off, coasting, stopping coasting, etc. After a while they can anticipate more and more of these things coming, but it's best to be chatty! You also often have to learn to compromise on cadence. I once read somewhere that wherever a relationship is heading, tandeming will take it there faster! I can easily see how this would be true as it depends on good communcation and also fair amount of trust!  1 A good piece of advice is that whatever goes wrong, it's always the captains fault, so don't try to blame the stoker!

I'd suggest any captain new to tandeming loses the clipless pedals until they are pretty experienced!

I'd also highly recommend The Tandem Club:

https://www.tandem-club.org.uk/

Lots of useful info, organised rides and rallies and a enjoyably eccentric bi-monthly magazine!  1 Membership is cheap too!

I'm really looking forward to getting on the tandem again!  1

Only down side is you have to get used to the same lame jokes about "she's not pedalling!" (FWIW you can easily tell how much effort the other rider is putting in!)

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Woldsman replied to DaveE128 | 7 years ago
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DaveE128 wrote:

.... I'd suggest any captain new to tandeming loses the clipless pedals until they are pretty experienced!

+1 (although I did fit a spare pair clipless pedals for my stoker to help her prepare for delivery of her solo bike)

Something else I found useful was to ask the stoker not to try to pedal at all when setting off.  Just rest their feet on the pedals.  If the two of you are not in synch then your joint efforts can be counter productive. 

The other thing to watch out for is when your stoker 'locks' their legs whilst the tandem is coasting.  That's fine when you're on a solo bike, but when you need to pedal immediately it's a bit unsettling to find you can't turn the pedals

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Woldsman | 7 years ago
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I do, Simontuck! Tandems are a great deal of fun.  My wife bought me a second hand one three Christmases ago, but we never got much further than around the block together. 

However, I veeerrrrrryyyy cleverly enlisted a friend of ours who was getting in to cycling as my stoker.  That meant I could ride to her house (cue: "You've lost someone, mate!") then go to a favourite cafe where we'd meet up with my OH and children. So, a family day out, a decent ride out, coffee and cake and everyone's happy.  Sadly, our friend enjoyed cycling so much she bought another bike and goes out on it with her new man and, separately, another cycling club.  Er, exactly how tall are you Simon...?

Maybe have a go at Googling 'Charlotte's Tandems' to see if they are looking for pilots to look after their tandems and take people out from time to time?

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Jharrison5 | 7 years ago
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Also - sizing! If you're taking a variety of stokers on it, you'll need to think carefully about the size of the rear cockpit.

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DaveE128 replied to Jharrison5 | 7 years ago
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Jharrison5 wrote:

Also - sizing! If you're taking a variety of stokers on it, you'll need to think carefully about the size of the rear cockpit.

To follow up on this point, we bought a tandem with a relatively small frame size for our heights (it just felt right), but reasonably long, and a highly adjustable stoker stem. With a couple of different length seat posts it will accomodate a wide range of people. A long seatpost isn't a bad thing either as it makes any unwarned bumps less uncomfortable for the stoker!  3 Actually a suspension seatpost isn't a bad idea at the back for the same reason.

Unfortunately the tandem we bought (http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/urban/product/review-landes... but set up with flat bars and 26" wheels) isn't made any more, as Landescape switched from a highly flexible tandem to making custom made tandems! (http://www.landescapetandems.com/)

I don't know if I'm the only one who is more comfortable with a shorter top tube (and higher bars) on a tandem than a solo, but it may have something to do with needing more muscle on the handlebars due to the different steering technique.

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Jharrison5 | 7 years ago
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I bought one last year having hired several tandems with my wife on holidays and days out. It's second hand and quite old (mid '80s) but robust and in immaculate condition. It's stunning. I felt like I got a total bargain. I still do.

You will already have come across some of the big differences from a handling point of view: handles like an oil tanker, braking takes some planning, goes like a rocket in a straight line, mounting and dismounting take a little team work and timing, the reach is generally shorter from both saddles. I haven't found hill climbing to be a major challenge. Mine has a triple chainring with a low bottom end gear, perhaps 30×30 but I haven't counted. If you both remain seated it's not difficult. I think climbing while standing on the pedals takes a well practised team and is probably not worth your while as it's less efficient anyway. The frame and wheelbase are very long, so there's more flex and vibration in corners and climbs. I'm guessing your hills are a bit different mine in South East Scotland. We managed to ascend a hill in North Queensferry called "The Brae" on our first ride on our own tandem. Communication is more important than you might imagine. I usually ride pilot. If you don't warn your (largely unsighted) stoker of gear changes, corners, hazards or road surface imperfections, you may find yourself without a stoker very shortly. That moment when you see a pot hole late, take your weight off the saddle and chuck your bike and body round the absent tarmac - that doesn't happen on a tandem. You'll stand, lean to the right, feel chuffed that you dodged it, then your stoker will feel the brunt of it as the rear wheel doesn't follow you, holds its line and transfers all the forces of the impact direct to their pelvis.

From a maintenance perspective there are a few big differences too. Long cables. Innovative braking solutions - mine has two cantilevers and a drum brake. Amazing 40 spoke wheels. 2 sets of contact points. The only tandem unique thing I can think of, off the top of my head, is the eccentric bottom bracket. The timing chain (between the two riders, doesn't engage directly with the drive chain) is tensioned by the off centre spindle in the pilots bottom bracket. I have not needed to adjust mine yet, but there will come a time when I might need to learn a bit about that. There are a few specialist retailers online that stock these weird parts. My wheel builder salivated at the thought of building a 40/48 spoke wheel.

Transporting it is really easiest done by riding the thing. Stoker not required! My already bargainous double steed came with an amazing car roof rack that incorporates a lift. I probably could manhandle it on to the roof, but fine motor control with 25-30kg of moving parts would present a major challenge. It is possible to move them by car but requires a bit of thought and planning. There's an obvious storage issue too. It's massive. I have a garage with space for it, but if I didn't and had to move it through a flat or house, I'd probably have to reconsider my tandem bicycle ownership.

Happy shopping! Give me a bell with any specific questions @harrisupersonic . There is a tandem club who might be able to help too. Membership is £10 per family per annum. Mine has lapsed because I didn't get much out of it.

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Griff500 | 7 years ago
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No, but like yourself, I'd like to hear more first hand from those who do. I believe that I, like many cyclists, have a few misonceptions about tandems being slow, and about the stronger rider having to drag the weaker rider up hills. My wife is very keen to get one as we are of very different aibility, particularly when it comes to hill climbing, which I love and she hates. I get the bit about lower wind resistance and weight per rider leading to higher speed on the flat, or moderate climbs. But when we hit a 20% gradient where on my solo carbon racer I would just select a low gear and grind it out, would the tandem grind to a halt?

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DaveE128 replied to Griff500 | 7 years ago
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Griff500 wrote:

No, but like yourself, I'd like to hear more first hand from those who do. I believe that I, like many cyclists, have a few misonceptions about tandems being slow, and about the stronger rider having to drag the weaker rider up hills. My wife is very keen to get one as we are of very different aibility, particularly when it comes to hill climbing, which I love and she hates. I get the bit about lower wind resistance and weight per rider leading to higher speed on the flat, or moderate climbs. But when we hit a 20% gradient where on my solo carbon racer I would just select a low gear and grind it out, would the tandem grind to a halt?

I'd say that unless your cycling is all about Strava segment times, then go for it, especially if it means you can enjoy cycling with your wife more. I enjoy a bit of Strava silliness sometimes, but for me tandeming is all about enjoying the ride.

It isn't so much a matter of dragging the other up the hill - you add your power output together and you ride at the speed that this power output supports.  So be prepared to accept some compromise on speed in that it may be slower than you would be on your own, but you should be faster together than it is waiting for her on the hills. In other words, you'll get where you're going faster.

As for 20% hills, I wouldn't attempt that straight off. Get the feel for the tandem first. Also make sure you have a very wide range of gearing. Tandems can be slower up steep hills due to the challenges in co-ordinating the effort. However they are very much faster going downhill!  4

 

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Jharrison5 replied to DaveE128 | 7 years ago
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DaveE128 wrote:

Cycling is all about Strava segment times, then go for it, especially if it means you can enjoy cycling with your wife more. I enjoy a bit of Strava silliness sometimes.

 

Valid point. I wondered what the ettiquette with posting tandem assisted rides to Strava was.

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