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Wheel Choice - Advice much appreciated

Hi all,
New to the forum, treat me gently as I am sure these types of questions get asked all the time 
I am mid forties, 80Kg and 5’10, and been riding for around 4 years now, loving it and getting fitter and faster all the time. Mainly do club runs and some very low key local races and sportives. Got Birmingham and Cardiff closed roads UCI velo’s to do next year. Bike is Cannondale supersix Evo, ultrgra Di2 with stock Fulcrum racing 5’s.
Also been doing triathlon (sprint and Olympic) for around 2 years building up to a 70.3 half iron distance next May. Don’t want to spend daft money on TT/Tri bike – not good enough to justify that.
So using the one bike for everything, love doing both disciplines and have a bit of cash to spend on upgrade, undoubtedly the best return for cash is wheel upgrade.

I want something mid section, with either alu braking surface or treated carbon/special pads, as going too deep section whilst helping triathlon, would probably not make sense on long rides, events. Also want clinchers/tubeless as cant be fussed with tubs.

I have narrowed it down to 4/5 options at 2 different price points (£600 and £1000).
First question is would spending the extra 400 quid be a benefit?
Second question – thinking about going deeper at the back and slightly shallower at the front, hadrons and Reynolds have this option, to minimise wind effects, thoughts?
Third question is around what people’s personal experience/opinion is on the choices, and benefits of one over another? Damn sure any of them will give me 1 or 2 mph on the flat, so would be happy with that but just want to make the right choice.

I also know that wheels aren’t going to turn me into sir Brad, but got some cash and fancy the marginal gain along with the bling factor!
(PS I’ve also been looking at second hand, but tbh seems daft saving say 20-30% on used when I can get full warranty etc with new.)

£600 range;
1. Wiggle Cosine 55mm front and rear
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cosine-55mm-full-carbon-clincher-wheelset/?lang=...
2. Campag bullet 50mm
http://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-wheels/campagnolo-bullet-50-clincher...

£1000 range
1. Reynolds Assault/Strike 41mm/60mm
http://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-wheels/reynolds-assault/strike-clinc...
2. Mavic CXR ultimate 60
http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Mavic/CXR-Ultimate-60-Clincher-Wheelset...
3. Swissside Hadron 42.5mm/62.5mm
http://www.swissside.com/shop/category/hadron-collection/

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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22 comments

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CXR94Di2 | 7 years ago
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Look at Yoeleo

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CXR94Di2 | 7 years ago
1 like

Look at Yoeleo

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MoutonDeMontagne | 7 years ago
1 like

If you're looking around the £500-£600, keep your eyes peeled for the American Classic aero 420 or Argent, or the Spada Breva's in the sales, tend not to get the same press as the bigger names, but well made wheels and super light.  Hunt wheels may also be right up your street too. 

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neilkav1 | 7 years ago
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Great info and comments everyone, thanks very much, probably not gonna justify reynolds prices now, but keeping eyes open at the £500-£600 mark. defo gives an advantage from what I can see, jury is out on just how much aero wheels give (saw the video and interesting but perfect (not real) conditions, nonetheless impressive).

Thanks again all, great help.

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CXR94Di2 | 7 years ago
2 likes

There is a cycling weekly video comparing different pairs of wheels(road rims, 50mm rims and full TT setup) on the same road bike at 200 Watt and 300 Watt runs over 10 mins. It was quite clear that aero wheels offered significant speed improvments at both power levels. greater still with full aero wheels.

I have just ordered some 60mm aero wheels from abroad which I'll use for TT and sportives.

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LastBoyScout | 7 years ago
1 like

I have the Campag Bullet 50 Ultra Cult version, on my best bike. Bought knowing I'd never be able to justify that expense on wheels again (they were on sale, even so).

Perhaps not quite the lightest, but they are very stiff, roll beautifully and look fantastic on the bike. I wanted carbon wheels, but liked the idea of the alu braking surface.

A friend has the standard ones and really likes them.

Wiggle seem the be the cheapest at the moment, but keep an eye on Ribble for a sale.

Overall, I've never regretted buying them, but at some point I may buy a lighter set for hilly rides. My other bike has 2 sets of alu wheels, and the difference in weight is noticable, expecially when pulling away from a junction, as the lighter ones spin up much faster.

 

Edit

The Ultra ones I've got are supposed to be the 2-way Fit tubeless ready ones, but I don't recall the manual saying anything about it, far less the label. Must remember to check that out and, if so, try it out.

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MoutonDeMontagne | 7 years ago
1 like

I had a similar conundrum this year as to what wheels to put on my supersix and narrowed it down to the Fulcrum racing zero nite, racing zero carbon, Reynolds assault, campag bora 35 and the Mavic cosmic. 

In the end I went for the Bora 35 as they're light (1400g) mid section and had ceramic bearings. the Reynolds were a close joint second with the fulcrums. So far been really pleased with them, got them reduced for just over £1k, roll brilliantly and the carbon brake track has performed faultlessly including in the alps. Theres a big price difference, but they really do make the bike come alive, I run Askiums through the winter and everything just feels sluggish and a bit dead in comparison. 

Out of your list I'd probably jump for the Reynolds, some people in the club have them and they seem bombproof and good value. The braking is apparently good too. Might also be worth checking out the Hunt carbon wheels too. They're well made, wide and excellent value. Were out of stock when I was getting mine else they'd have been on the list too. Likewise for tri, the Fulcrum racing quattrro aren't much heavier at 1500g and good value at £800 - same brake track as on my boras and the zero carbon, just without the USB bearings in the hubs. 

Just noticed we have the same 2015 bike. The Bora with a 25mm vittoria Corsa G+ fits with no problem. 

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racingcondor | 7 years ago
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I'd say either the Reynolds (light), or the Campagnolo Bullet (Alu brake surface for the same weight as the Cosign).

For me that would mean the Reynolds but it depends how paranoid you are about braking and how much you expect to be riding in the wet (where Alu brake track will be a big benefit).

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marcof11 | 7 years ago
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a couple of option from farsport ( a "reliable" chinese vendor)

https://www.wheelsfar.com/road-wheels/clincher/24cm-23mm-width/38mm-x-23...

or higher price with DTSWISS 240s straight pull

 

https://www.wheelsfar.com/road-wheels/clincher/24cm-23mm-width/38mm-x-23...

very easy communication, 

 

 

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marcof11 | 7 years ago
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farsports very easy communications :

top end : DTswiss 240s hubs straight pull  ( various combination of rims depth and width)

https://www.wheelsfar.com/road-wheels/clincher/24cm-23mm-width/38mm-x-23...

more budget  : 

https://www.wheelsfar.com/road-wheels/clincher/24cm-23mm-width/38mm-x-23...

you can ask ceramic bearing for small upgrade cost..

 

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neilkav1 | 7 years ago
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They do look amazing wheels there, and your info on the width and the ride in really interesting.

Might be an issue on my bike - supersix evo 2015 - notorious for not having great tyre clearance, my shwalbe ones 25mm on fulcrum racing 5 rims give me around 3-4mm each side at the moment where the chainstays meet the BB.

Also a bit more expensive than I ideally want to go, have since rethought the budget and think spending a grand is nuts at my level! trying to get a decent all round wheel at sub £500.

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upinthehills | 7 years ago
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Would agree with earlier comments about the power meter. To be able to moderate your power over a ride is a great asset. If you are riding a 10 mile TT or 100 mile sportive you will be able to judge the ride on the basis your average and current power. Thus able to ensure that there is still gas in the tank for the whole ride. Plus you get a much more accurate view of energy consumed so you can judge better when to feed yourself. They also help in training.

Wheels are an intersting issue. Over the years I have bought and sold around 10 pairs of wheels in search of the perfect all rounder. Weight is only really a big issue if you are doing alot of climbing on the ride. It matters but not that much. What you are left with is how well they cut through the air and how well they transfer power from the you to the ground. So stiffness. Each of the sets of wheels that were sold where lacking on one of the two catagories mentioned and it seemed difficult to get both. It does exist and I found it with a company called Ride full gas. Various depth sections available but they all share a very wide profile 25 to 28mm between the pads. This wide profile provides a great tyre profile with the tyre to braking surface connection being very smooth. This makes the tyre shape more aero but the shape is also amazing for grip and cornering as there is no roll on the tyre. Then there is the stiffness. Boy but they transfer power well. I have the DM 838 wheels which are a few grams heavier than a Duraace C24 but with a much deeper section. They work really well as an all rounder and come supplied with the proper pads. Lovely hubs which are real easy to service. Braking is fine too.

Oh and not to be discounted they look the business.

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neilkav1 | 7 years ago
1 like

Duncann

thanks - I agree its a nice sentiment this time of year, but I contribute plenty to charity lol, and fund raise for macmillan often!

Madcarew

thanks - interesting stuff. I personally cant be bothered with tubs, hardly race at all, only locally and not that often. Really would like to find a wheel that would suffice for my club rides/sportives/  and really mainly for flat triathlon events without having to change, thinking a reasonable set of 45's would be fine, along with a PM set up to enhance training. Definately NOT now going to spend daft money, maybe £500 tops.

700c

Also thanks, not going to be able to justify/afford reynolds now lol, but will defo look for a mid range 45/50, which I think is a decent compromise. I still like the bax clinchers I found, but hardly any reviews as the company is pretty new, will keep my eyes peeled. Other option is of course second hand but no warranty there, we'll see.

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700c | 7 years ago
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IME Reynolds are very well built and reasonably stiff, which is what will give you that feeling of strong acceleration under power. Ditto campag / fulcrum (though ive only used their alu rimd. I don't have experience of the other brands. The latest ones are wider and generally a wider wheel will be stiffer.

Light weight is nice, but it sounds like the priority should be aero, stiffness then weight. Especially if you're doing ironmans. Go for 50-60 mm if you can, 40mm is unlikely to give you all that much of an aero advantage. You learn to cope with winds but you can always swap back to the fulcrums for winter and v windy days.

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madcarew | 7 years ago
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I can't speak to the actual wheels you've posted up there, but I have the same bike and I ride it with some very old (15 yrs) Dura-ace 30mm aluminium rims and my 'normal' race wheels are Dura-ace C24s. There is little noticable difference between the 2. The approx 400 gm is barely noticable riding up hill, but they do accelerate a little easier. I've recently ridden the GF world champs on some borrowed reynolds 50mm XL carbon tubulars, and been riding a national series on some FFWD 50mm tubs. Both are around 400gm lighter than the C24s. The difference is noticable, and quite dramatic. In the acclerations they 'spin up' a lot easier, and when riding solo / bridging gaps there is certainly an 'easier feel' to them. 

I think you will notice the difference of deeper carbon rims, but probably not the difference between the 2 price ranges

Your last comment re: cheaper wheels and a power meter seems spot on to me. 

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Dnnnnnn | 7 years ago
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I know this is about the benefits of very expensive wheels versus extremely expensive wheels but maybe go for something in the cheaper range and donate the difference to charity? Your money, of course but £400 is quite a lot to many in the season of goodwill.

You'd probably also feel a greater benefit from that too, albeit a different kind.

[With apologies for the sermonising - just trying to offer a wider perspective!]

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neilkav1 | 7 years ago
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Great comments, thanks a lot, PM and cheaper wheels just for the bling is the way forward for me  1

Would rather have an alu braking surface tho, for obvious reasons, will keep looking, cheers.

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Nixster | 7 years ago
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As always its a question of what's important to you.

Of the wheels you've listed I would go for the Reynolds because they are lighter and I like a light wheel.  I don't intentionally go out in prolonged rain so the wet weather braking of full carbon rims isn't that much of an issue to me and it's not like alloy rims are great either in the wet.

Aerodynamically Swiss Side probably have the edge but it's probably not an edge you'll ever notice over say the Cosines (which have no data to back them up AFAIK).  But the Cosines are lardy and the Bullets lardier still.  So I'd take 200g lighter wheels from Reynolds.

I should probably pay more attention on lateral stiffness- Roadcc rated the Hadrons in that respect but the Reynolds don't strike me as flexy.

A shallower front than rear is a theory I subscribe to btw for an all-round wheelset even if it might sometimes be the less than aerodynamically optimum solution.

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neilkav1 replied to Nixster | 7 years ago
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Nixster wrote:

As always its a question of what's important to you.

Of the wheels you've listed I would go for the Reynolds because they are lighter and I like a light wheel.  I don't intentionally go out in prolonged rain so the wet weather braking of full carbon rims isn't that much of an issue to me and it's not like alloy rims are great either in the wet.

Aerodynamically Swiss Side probably have the edge but it's probably not an edge you'll ever notice over say the Cosines (which have no data to back them up AFAIK).  But the Cosines are lardy and the Bullets lardier still.  So I'd take 200g lighter wheels from Reynolds.

I should probably pay more attention on lateral stiffness- Roadcc rated the Hadrons in that respect but the Reynolds don't strike me as flexy.

A shallower front than rear is a theory I subscribe to btw for an all-round wheelset even if it might sometimes be the less than aerodynamically optimum solution.

Hey, thanks very much for the comments and advice.

TBH I also love the look of the reynolds, but not sure I can justify that price point for my first set of carbon/aero wheels.

Am being advised that it won't make hardly any difference at all to speed, and that power meter and training are the way to go and to forget the wheel upgrade.

My training is very good, training hard through the winter to prepare for quite a few sprint/middle/70.3 tri's and some sportives next year along with usual local rides.

So I guess I'm now thinking some cheaper or second hand wheels and invest in PM too.

 

These caught my attention, clearly Taiwanese components but built in UK, under half the price of Reynolds;

 

http://www.baxcarbon.co.uk/product-page/5f9c1cf6-d26c-bf23-147d-4c4ddace...

 

Could even mix and match front / rear sizes, any thoughts?

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Nixster replied to neilkav1 | 7 years ago
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neilkav1 wrote:

Nixster wrote:

As always its a question of what's important to you.

...

A shallower front than rear is a theory I subscribe to btw for an all-round wheelset even if it might sometimes be the less than aerodynamically optimum solution.

Hey, thanks very much for the comments and advice.

TBH I also love the look of the reynolds, but not sure I can justify that price point for my first set of carbon/aero wheels.

Am being advised that it won't make hardly any difference at all to speed, and that power meter and training are the way to go and to forget the wheel upgrade.

My training is very good, training hard through the winter to prepare for quite a few sprint/middle/70.3 tri's and some sportives next year along with usual local rides.

So I guess I'm now thinking some cheaper or second hand wheels and invest in PM too.

 

These caught my attention, clearly Taiwanese components but built in UK, under half the price of Reynolds;

 

http://www.baxcarbon.co.uk/product-page/5f9c1cf6-d26c-bf23-147d-4c4ddace...

 

Could even mix and match front / rear sizes, any thoughts?

Can't argue with your logic.  I ride far Sports 38/50mm x25mm wide tubular wheels, 1285g real world weight.  Like most generic carbon wheels they are Giantex rims in my case built on Bitex light hubs with CX-ray spokes.  Cost about £500.  Tubs are a bit of a faff, not sure I'd do that again but it meant that the wheels are about 300-400g lighter than clinchers and I don't have to worry about the 'my wheels blew up because I dragged my brakes on a descent' horror stories.  Well, not worry so much anyway.

The wheels you've linked to are essentially a UK based version of a generic Taiwanese carbon wheel, less hassle to buy in the UK I'm sure.  No idea how well they're built but if they're crap it will be a lot easier to get your money back.

There's a lot of BS talked about aerodynamics.  I think it was Flo who did a test comparing the effects of different tyre brands of the same size on various 'aero' wheel brands.  Turns out that the difference from the tyres was of the same magnitude as the aero benefit of the wheels in the first place (Conti GP4000S were the best tyres btw).  So £50 in tyres could negate the benefits of £2k's worth of wheels...

What I think we can say with some certainty is that following a thorough training regime based on the effective use of a power meter WILL make you a faster rider.  Harder work than flexing a credit card though  1

Like I said originally, it depends what's important to you.

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neilkav1 | 7 years ago
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Yes good point hadn't looked at the mavics width, will go take a look at your suggestion cheers!

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Anthony.C | 7 years ago
1 like

The Mavic wheels you linked to are very narrow at 13 mm. What about the new Mavic cosmic pro carbon 2017 wheels ? Reasonably light, 45 mm deep, a good internal rim width for an Evo at 17 mm ( my Supersix Evo has very limited clearance at the back ),  about 787 quid and Mavic wheels have a 3 year warranty now and crash replacement. If that reads a bit like an ad it's because I want someone to review these damn wheels !

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