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Radio5Live debate, cycling in UK v Holland

by Leviathan
Wed, Aug 17, 2016 23:54
4

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07nm63d

Woke up for a late shift and caught this 5Live debate with Nicky Campbell about cycling in the UK (starts at 43mins.) Some horror stories and appeals for better attitudes and standards. I was particularly interested in one of the later callers stating what a paradise 'Holland' is (56min). How they have wide boulvards and separation. I was thinking, maybe in Utrecht but not Amsterdam. The Netherlands is a smaller and denser country than the UK. We can't blame our infrastraucture on Victorian street layouts. Most main roads have plenty of grass verges and pavements here. Cycle lanes are poorly laid out and poorly maintained (which was mentioned; how do you clean these sand bars.)

As I was riding home tonight I was passing lots on new construction (in north/Manchester city centre) lots of apartments and town houses squeezed into tiny plots. All with no parking facilities. We just keep letting the construction industy use the lowest common denominator. It might be more profitable but we just end up with on street parking. We are back to a new version of industrial terraces with cars narrowing our streets.

We do need more housing, but we are just compounding the same mistakes in our cities. Unless we can get the people living in these boxes just outside our city centres to walk or ride we will still be talking about congested dangerous streets in 50 years time.

To paraphrase "Marty, where we're going, we will need a road."

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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4 comments

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WillRod | 7 years ago
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In my opinion, segregated cycle lanes should be an option and not mandatory. I think more people would cycle for recreation, commuting and shopping, and it would tempt some cyclists away from the road. But for people who want to go faster than 12-15mph the road is more suitable.

I think we need an attitude change more than an infrastructure change. Assumed liability would be a great start. According to the Dept for Transport illegal cycling only led to 2% of cycling collisions and incidents despite the vitriol from motorists about illegal cycling! See link at bottom for more.

i think one difference between the UK and Holland that needs mentioning is the relative lack of hills (except near German border) and the lack of hedges. These reduce sight lines and make it harder for overtakes as well using the acceleration of overtaking vehicles. Perhaps on hills they should provide a cycle lane on the uphill side? In Ipswich on the main Norwich Road there is a 2ft wide cycle lane on the uphill lane, but a shared bus lane on the downhill side. Needless to say, cycling uphill can be a bit hairy!

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accide...

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Beatnik69 | 7 years ago
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A firend of mine moved into a new house a couple of years ago. The development was fairly recent and the first time I went ot visit I was astonished that there were no footpaths. Each house had a small front lawn which then led directly onto the road. The developers have obviously decided that the residents will just be driving everywhere.

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Chris James | 7 years ago
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I've just come back from a couple of weeks holiday in the Netehrlands. The cycling infrastructuure is obviously much, much better than the UK - largely because most of the cycle lanes are segregated. Where they are not segrated it is more similar to the Uk - i.e. cars parking next to the lane, opening doors into it etc!

The biggest difference is the behaviour of the drivers. I guess it is is down to presumed liability, but drivers who are on roudabouts stop for you to cross the road in front of them - thereby cancelling out the problems with UK cycle lanes, where you have to give way at every junction.

I don't think this is just down to Dutch drivers being nicer or somehow 'getting' cycling - on one occasion we missed a sign to a mandatory cyle path and instead rode along the single carriageway rural road. We had motorists beeping us and winding their windows down to hurl abuse at us - including my 8 and 10 year olds, who were baffled by it all. 400m later the cycle path finished and it was now okay to ride along the same road!

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tritecommentbot | 7 years ago
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Staff working from home is the cheapest alternative to inner city building and restructuring. I'm not sure about other industries, but it is slowly becoming more popular in finance. You have your key and use it to securely log into your desktop at the office. Have access to all your apps and internal messaging.

 

The bottleneck is that the software used to connect remotely is laggy, so even given the option, if it's a really hectic day, you'd still opt to commute in, simply because you'll get more work done. 

 

The other thing is, there's still some distrust about working from home, which is odd for a lot of sectors as either work is getting done to deadline without breaches/errors, or it isn't. Performance is a measureable metric for many.

Must at least a million or two office staff in the UK who could easily get the same job done at home as they could at the office. That would be a good start. Maybe even much more. The software is all there ready to be used and tailored for any business.

 

 

 

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