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forum
Silent approaches...
CYCLIST SAFETY ALERT (Following four near accidents in Maplehurst Park Lane, West Sussex)
Before you read any further I need to say that I, my family and my friends , all enjoy riding our bikes in our local lanes so as you read on, (if you do), please don't think I am a cyclist hater because I am not.
I have no wish to deny other cyclists the joy of cycling along our country lanes, Bridleways and Heritage trails. I just ask other cyclists to respect the fact that dog walkers, horse riders, hikers, ramblers and family groups with young children also have an equal right to use these facilities.
So, if you are cycling at 30 mph along a narrow country lane with no pavements and you are approaching a group of walkers FROM BEHIND (with maybe dogs or children straddling the road), be aware that they do not hear your silent tubeless tyre high speed approach and that they do not have eyes in the back of their heads and are therefore unaware of your impending presence. (They do, of course, hear approaching motor vehicles and act accordingly)
There are two things you could do with this problem of ‘silent approach’.
You could slow down and alert them with a cheery “Good morning, I’m coming through” (or sound your bell) so that they could move aside for you and let you pass them safely.
OR
You could continue your high speed ‘silent approach’ and swear at them as you pass at 30 mph blaming them for the near collision after one of the party moved to the left or right just as you were upon them.
The choice is yours BUT REMEMBER …
If you hit a dog on a lead at 30 mph, you will kill it.
If you hit a young child at 30 mph, you will severely injure it and maybe kill it.
If you hit an elderly walker at 30 mph you will cause irreparable damage.
If you hit any of the above, you may even kill yourself…
If you didn’t kill yourself, you would undoubtedly be sued by your victim.
Surely, cycling at a more leisurely speed of about ten to fifteen miles an hour on a lovely sunny English day might give you time to enjoy the scenery as compared with racing speeds in excess of 30 mph? Why not use an ‘Off-Road’ track for speed and endurance training?
So all I ask is this… Just sound your approach and slow down before passing walkers. Even then, be aware that a deaf person will still be oblivious to you approach!
Our beautiful country lanes can then be safe for all of us to enjoy, including you!
(I welcome your comments)
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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41 comments
Bugger me, that's the second posting in as many days that I agree with every word of a Superpython comment.
As to the whole silent passing thing. I have ridden with people who hear an aggressive use of the horn where I hear a courtesy beep from a passing car. I would assume that using a bell or shouted warning "cycles back!" is equally open to misinterpretation. However, I take the view that it's safer they are aware of my presence and you can always add a "good morning", "thanks" or other friendly follow up as you pass.
Chill, share the road, enjoy the ride. It's not a race.
1. Sometimes, pedestrians step out in front of me without looking. Should I post a pompous "safety alert" on the Ramblers forum?
2. As a pedestrian you are some 400 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by a driver than a cyclist. Your "safety message" is targeting the wrong people.
3. Bells and polite shouts attract anger and unpredictable "startled" behaviour. Maybe keep a lookout if you are walking on the road, and control your dog?
4. "30 mph" Do you carry a calibrated speed gun? You are plainly exaggerating
No, I don't have a speed gun, but even today I was driving on a small rural lane behind a cyclist travelling at the same speed as he/she and my vehicle speedometer read 33 mph. I would like to think that the cyclist braking power would be good enough to stop him/her in a reasonable distance in an emergency, but I very much doubt it. I do admire his/her stamina though !
No, I don't have a speed gun, but even today I was driving on a small rural lane behind a cyclist travelling at the same speed as he/she and my vehicle speedometer read 33 mph. I would like to think that the cyclist braking power would be good enough to stop him/her in a reasonable distance in an emergency, but I very much doubt it. I do admire his/her stamina though !
Sometimes a warning noise or a bell can cause a pedestrian to change course and then actually block the way. I always slow down, often say hello and give plenty of space when gonig around walkers, horses etc. Everyone on the road is responsible for the safety themselves and all other road users.
Its also not just the stereotypical racer type who can be guilty for inconsiderate riding. I was walking down a narrow gravel path and saw an old biddy steaming towards me on a bobbin bike. I thought, surely shes going to slow down or move over.... no, shes going to ride right at me, wobbling all over the place..... i almost fell in the canal. life takes all sorts. (she was probably in a hurry to spend her final salary pension, whilst celebrating brexit having previously picked up the daily mail. She did however have a high viz tabbard on).
General rules?
- if it's shared use, chill the fuck out.
- call 'passing left/right' if they appear oblivious to your approach.
- give as much room as possible.
Stick to this and the hassle factor for all should be minimised.
I've been walk-riding my two dogs off-lead, on the Thames towpath. So, I'm a cyclist, with two dogs running around me. Being not able to walk too far, this is the best way for them to get the exercise they need. I'll call 'dogs!' or signal to speeders to slow down. At night or low light, I stick flashing, reflective bands around the dogs' necks.
Most people are sensible. However, there are those who, despite the proliferation of dogs milling around, still think it's acceptable to treat the place as their own, personal racetrack. Luckily, these runners and cyclists are few and far between.
And yes, it's perfectly fine to have dogs off the lead in public places, especially if you're training them. And it's usually not a good idea to call them to you if someone approaches, as that can make them more unpredictable. I'd rather have dogs running free than on extendable leads, or long ropes, which are an even worse trip hazard. The exception to this is dogs which constantly chase or act aggressively towards others, without any attempt from their owners to control them.
In other words, be understanding of all users, and don't be a dick.
I agree with these comments about shared-use. However, in all fairness, the OP wasn't talking about shared-use: the OP was talking about walking in a group on a narrow open-to-all-traffic type road, with their theoretical loose dogs and children whilst wandering left and right to look at the lovely sunflowers.
If these are shared use tow paths, then I think it is a bit selfish to have them running loose. Everyone has responsibilities. Sure, cyclists should slow down to pass dogs, but at the same time, dog owners should have their animals under control at all times, and that only happens when they are on a short lead.
If I managed to cycle at 30mph I sure as hell won't be silent- you will hear my breathing from about 2 miles away!
Oh, I hear that, brother!
Dear Yorkshire wallet. This is not a 'speed issue' at all. You have missed the point completely. SPEED is not theproblem (so by all means cycle as fast as you want) but be aware that dog walkers, rambler groups who don't hear you approaching from behind them are likely to wander to the left or right to actually enjoy looking at sunflowers. Give them a chance to do so without being run down, abused or vilified for using the country lane for their own selfish enjoyment. You know what .... I'm out of here.... Too much aggression ....
Hang on: as I said earlier, cyclists or motorists shouldn't be coming from behind you if you're walking facing the traffic.
And equally, if you are walking on a country lane which is open to general traffic then I'm afraid that you probably shouldn't be wandering left and right no matter how amazing are the sunflowers.
If people are wandering around country lanes without paying attention to what's on the road they probably have more to worry about than a bit of vilification (the age of the silent hybrid car is here), and it's vanishingly unlikely that it'll be cyclists running them down.
But if you do feel that you've been driven from here by debate (sorry, 'aggression'), please ensure you stop off at pistonheads and make more generalised comments to stereotypes of those who do actually kill and maim on country lanes.
And yet you mention, in a derogatory fashion, cycling at 30mph 5 times in your OP and then go on to suggest cyclists should be riding at 10 - 15mph.
Make your mind up!
This post has made me reconsider my whole approach to cycling and my mates on Strava can look forward to '12 mph average, saw some lovely sunflowers'.
The only time (touch wood) I've been hurt on a bike was when I was overtaking a pedestrian who was walking on the left hand side of a road. As I came up behind them I rang a bell so as not to startle them, and the pedestrians response was to spin around to their right and end up standing in front of me. I ended up upside-down in a ditch full of brambles at the left of the road because I tried to steer left to avoid them as they were still moving towards the middle of the road.
Top tip for pedestrians: Walk in a straight line or stand still, the bike will avoid you or stop.
Top tip for cyclists: Assume the pedestrian could move in any direction at any time, including right in front of you, give plenty of room and be prepared to stop!
Who on earth passes groups of walkers closely at speed on a bike?!
Nobody I know of. And very very few on here I imagine.
@bromsongsmith you might be directing your 'advice' to the wrong group of people..
You'll generally find that experienced cyclists make better, more safety aware pedestrians and drivers.
And be careful to avoid stereotyping. All cyclists are pedestrians too, but I wouldn't dare to assume all pedestrians wander the lanes allowing pets and children all over the road, as you have described!
PS when walking or running I always face oncoming traffic on the lanes I use EXCEPT when there is a sharp right hand bend. Then I'll cross to increase my visability and reduce the chances of being hit.
PPS does anyone know why, when cycling, cars pass me more closely than when I am jogging? Anybody else experienced this and anyone have any theories why this is the case? I often wonder if it's a lack of empathy with cyclists and their vulnerability, which is possibly being demonstrated by the poster of this thread too?
Very regularly happens to me...
Just last Sunday a car passed/overtook me (80kph road) - fairly narrow road - and barely straddles the dotted white line in doing so... probably approx 6 inches ' wiggle room' - certainly no more.
Less than 100 yards up the road the driver completely crosses over onto the other side/lane to pass an oncoming pedestrian (no footpath). The driver probably sees no issue in that and can't see how selective his 'obstacle avoidance' is.
About 300 yards up the same road I am overtaken by another driver, who then immediately 'left hooks' me by turning into his driveway, I have to yank on the brakes. I shout after him as he's getting out the car, and am told to fuck off....I shouldn't be on the road (don't pay tax, blah blah blah...and to stop playing with toys... I'll leave it a few weeks...balloons and corrosive substances...Jackson Pollock in the making....
Also starting it as 'I'm a cyclist...' I'm a pedestrian too buy I've NEVER walked along a narrow country lane in any manner that allows any type of traffic to approach me unsighted from behind,because if you do walk like that it's not the cyclists you've got to worry about, it will be the car doing 60-70 that will plough through you before you had time to react to it and anyone who has cycled on a narrow country lane knows there are plenty of people driving cars round not anticipating people,cyclists,animals to be there
@Bromsongsmith,
Please remeber that once you and you family have finished walking your dog and you've climbed into your motor vehicle and travel at 60mph,
If I hit your uncontrolled dog on a public highway, I will report you to the police for such and then proceed to sue you for damages to myself and bike. Please bear in mind, one of my bikes cost £5K, some of us have up to £2ks worth of cycle holiday booked. I will have to live with consequence of your narrowmindedness for the rest of my life whilst you can go and buy another dog.
If you honestly believe any cyclist will delibrately endanger their own life and anyone elses you really need to seek help with your paranoia. Unlike certain people who feel safe enough in their metal boxes to knowingly and often delibrately use their vehicles as weapon to intimidate other road users.
And there endth the ranth!
For me, you inspired a bit of vitriol when you become a little preachy, such as
"Surely, cycling at a more leisurely speed of about ten to fifteen miles an hour on a lovely sunny English day might give you time to enjoy the scenery as compared with racing speeds in excess of 30 mph? Why not use an ‘Off-Road’ track for speed and endurance training?"
Riding at 30mph is generally within the speed limit, especially as most rural roads have a 60mph limit. I understand your issue and always shout a warning before passing pedestrians in the road, but I dislike being told I am only welcome on our lovely country roads if I fit in to a Famous Five style of cycling.
I, for my part, shout warnings and slow down when there is a hazard, for my own safety rather than anyone elses, but I do also expect the pedestrians to do the same by controlling dogs and kids and walking on the sensible side of the road, ie, facing oncoming traffic. If we all accept responsibility for our own part in the problem, rather than finger pointing it would definitley help.
Well that's the deal. It will never be analogous within context, as cyclists are a targetted minority.
You can try and examine situations in a vacuum of course, but it's not real.
Oh dear ...
When I posted my original post I did not intend for it to come across as an "Us and Them" issue, so if it has, I apologise. This issue is a "we" issue. Cyclists, Pedestrians, dog walkers, children and horses etc.)
I wholeheartedl agree with a lot of the subsequent comments. All the road users share equal degrees of stupidity and that the very reason I highlightted the dangers of a 'Silent Approach' from BEHIND the hazard...
Just to clarify a misunderstanding made by one post from BROOKSBY, my third paragraph refers to children potentially straddling the lane. It is not meant to imply that that is acceptable ! (I was just using it as an example)
As a point of interest, my wife and I (69 years old) always walk along the 3 metre wide lane, on the right and side, facing the traffic with our dog on a short lead, but have still fallen foul of near misses.
I am saddened that there seems to be a lot of anger and aggression in these posts. I would much rather have seen more constructive responses without the entrenched opinion, which appears to be, "It's everybody elses fault".
No, it's not! We are all at fault from time to time, but all we can do is take responsibility for our own failings and maybe make allowances for the failings of others ?
OK - I misunderstood. I have seen groups of pedestrians wandering along shared use paths and along actual roads without (apparently) a care in the world, and have experienced their anger when I ring a bell or call out, and presumed you were speaking from experience not setting up a theoretical situation.
I am sorry to hear that. I can see from Streetview that it's a very narrow lane, but if cyclists (or anyone else, for that matter) are coming up behind you when you're walking facing the direction of traffic then they're technically on the wrong side of the road (which is a whole different issue...
). Is it actually a through-road (ie. open to general motor traffic)?
I think the problem here is that a lot of cyclists (myself included) get all sorts of flak from other road users about how badly "we" behave and are expected by the mainstream press etc to act like saints, and yet all the while stories keep coming out of cyclists being run over or otherwise injured through no fault of their own by motorists behaving badly, and our hackles can start rising quite quickly when "we" sense criticism.
We can be a tough crowd
Anyone had pedestrians jump when they hear a bike bell, as they have no clue what it is?
Happened to to me a lot more than I thought.
Problem is that they'll jump in a completely random direction.
I'm a bit disappointed with some of the responses here, given how quickly (and justifiably) commenters on these fora shout "Victim blaming!" whenever a cyclist struck by a car is criticised for any aspect of their riding.
While lots of folk are correct in pointing out that the HC suggests that walkers *"should be prepared"* to walk single-file facing the traffic, this is not law and, as the OP points out, the roads are there for *all* to use. Any cyclist should, at the minimum, make their presence known in a non-threatening manner well before encountering pedestrians, and should (IMO) slow down considerably on approach and until past - it can be just as scary for a pedestrian to be passed by a cyclist at 35kph as it is for a cyclist to be passed by a car/van/lorry at 90kph.
Cyclists should be offering as much respect and care to pedestrians as we expect from motorists.
Can you quote a single response that has blamed a victim here?
You seem to have simply repeated what others have said, yet had a go at them for it. Bit confusing.
And pedestrians should be treating cyclists as vehicles and not as "oh, its just a cyclist".
Nobody here is invoking 'victim blaming'. The closer analogy might be if a group of cyclists were cycling along a narrow lane (so, a road, not just some little bridleway/green lane, presumably) filling the entire roadway such that a car (or, indeed, another cyclist) couldn't get past, and then complained that the driver didn't use their horn or the cyclist their bell to let the club know they were there.
I know plenty of pedestrians who listen for a car then happily step out into the road - without looking - if they don't hear one.
But I don't know any cyclists that speed close and silent past a group of pedestrians.
Everyone I know would ring a bell or call out, and slow down if there were children or animals wandering around (I do wonder why the OP is happy to let them wander about on a road anyway...? That is a completely separate issue from walking facing or with the expected traffic flow).
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