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Downhill Advice (Titsey Hill)

So, I rode down Titsey Hill in west Kent yesterday,  a B road that curves round ranging from 8.5 to 21% gradient. You an see the details here http://veloviewer.com/segments/1450190/athlete/889675

My question is, what is the best way to approach these kind of downhills? The road surface is terrible and my front wheel was bouncing all over the place at about 40mph, but everytime I touched the brakes the vibrations just got worse. By the time I reached the bottom I practically needed new bibs.

Anyone got any tips for this sort of thing?

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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15 comments

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kenyond | 7 years ago
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Come off the seat is good keep a slight bend in your knees to help dampen vibrations. If you can have a go at some mountian biking that will help your desending technique to

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benborp | 7 years ago
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The problem I find with Titsey is that the road on the first part of the descent has a regular washboard texture. I have one bike where at a certain speed the front end resonates with this surface. On this bike the ride is smoother at a higher speed, certainly smoother than riding the brakes or coasting which are both bone jarring to the point of losing control. Unfortunately powering through the resonance results in a much higher speed than is sensible approaching the bends and the junction - there is space and a better surface on which to brake but it isn't the kind of sudden slowing you want to be doing too often on a bike or while sharing the road with other people.

Titsey Hill isn't safe or comfortable on that bike.

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madcarew | 7 years ago
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If you are 'floating' your weight on the bike (bum off saddle) your legs act as shock absorbers. However, braking in that position is a little precarious. A death grip on the handle bars is a sure recipe for speed wobbles and a lack of control.

Brake on smooth parts as much as possible. Feather the back brake to maintain some control over your speed.

Take your weight off the saddle for the roughest parts, and maintain a light grip on the handle bars. 

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nterrington | 7 years ago
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To avoid this bad surface, descend Clarks Lane instead from roundabout at top. Still takes you to Brasted, Toys, Yorks etc, but less sketchy in the way there. 

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CXR94Di2 | 7 years ago
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Steep hills,
Rule 1
Keep speed under control immediately. Once you pick up pace and anything sudden happens you won't be able to stop

Rule 2
Unless you can see around corners keep speed under control.

Rule 3
Use the back brake first to stabilise the bike when braking. Gentle modulation so to avoid lockups

Rule 4
Firm control(but not grip of death) of handlebars to avoid speed wobbles.

Rule5
Unless you're racing go steady

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corin_ja replied to CXR94Di2 | 7 years ago
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CXR94Di2 wrote:

Rule 3 Use the back brake first to stabilise the bike when braking. Gentle modulation so to avoid lockups y

Thanks, this is new on me. I always thought back brake marginally after front brake as there was more chance of back wheel skidding from the lateral pressure. I'll give your tip a go instead.

I do mostly try to feather the brakes rather than pull for long periods, although at the most crapping-myself moment on Sunday I admit I was just riding the brakes for tens of metres.

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Daveyraveygravey replied to corin_ja | 7 years ago
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corin_ja wrote:

CXR94Di2 wrote:

Rule 3 Use the back brake first to stabilise the bike when braking. Gentle modulation so to avoid lockups y

Thanks, this is new on me. I always thought back brake marginally after front brake as there was more chance of back wheel skidding from the lateral pressure. I'll give your tip a go instead.

I do mostly try to feather the brakes rather than pull for long periods, although at the most crapping-myself moment on Sunday I admit I was just riding the brakes for tens of metres.

 

You'll find if the back wheel locks up, maintaining control is fairly easy, and it usually stays in a straight line or only arcs out a little.  Releasing the brake lever briefly gets you back in control again.  

If you lock the front, you need to be a bike control zen master to NOT hit the deck.   99 times out of 100 it will slide out from under you in nano seconds and the best you can do is minimise the damage to yourself.  That's why I get on the back brake marginally sooner than the front.  With practice you can increase the pressure on the levers and feel what each tyre is doing; really steep descents like in the Lakes or Bignor Hill you have to move your body weight back over the rear wheel to stop it lifting.  Long descents like in the Alps can give you so much pain in your wrists you want them to finish sooner!

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Daveyraveygravey | 7 years ago
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I'd add a good long look over your shoulder before you roll over the top so you know if there is anything behind, and if so how fast it is going.  I find some times this makes the driver back off so you can concentrate on your line and where you are heading, and use all the available road. Look again later on the descent if possible.

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corin_ja replied to Daveyraveygravey | 7 years ago
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Daveyraveygravey wrote:

I'd add a good long look over your shoulder before you roll over the top so you know if there is anything behind, and if so how fast it is going.  I find some times this makes the driver back off so you can concentrate on your line and where you are heading, and use all the available road. Look again later on the descent if possible.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty practised at controlling following traffic by looking behind at them. On Sunday I tried a shoulder check at one point of the descent because there was a car pretty close behind me, and the driver backed off a lot. I gave them a wave when they finally over took me with good passing distance as the hill bottomed out.

 

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corin_ja | 7 years ago
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That is all really useful advice, thanks very much indeed.

I did know about being on the drops not the hoods and I do try to look further ahead to plot my line.

I didn't know about coming off the saddle. On Sunday I was actually pushing my weight in to the saddle to try to dampen the vibrations. Next time I face a descent like this I'll try coming up off the saddle a bit.

paulrattew - that is excellent advice, I will call up some of my friends who are keen MBers and get them to take me out and do some more trail riding. 

Tyres wise, I'm running 25mm Conti GP 4 Seasons, because I hate punctures, but I was wondering about a grippier tyre to give me a bit more confidence.

Nat Jas Moe - I will try to loosen up my grip on the bars. I did practically imprint my knuckles in the bar tape on Sunday, I must admit.

That descent is particularly crappy because of the poor surface and the restricted visibility but it does get me down to some lovely riding around Toys Hill and Bough Beech and then up towards York's Hill and Brasted on the way back.

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paulrattew | 7 years ago
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Titsey is rubbish as a descent due to the poor surface and poor sight lines (cars coming up don't stay over on their side). Much better to go up it and then down one the the slightly less bib short decimating descents nearby.

As with all descents though, the technique is going to be roughly the same. Scrub off speed early, better to go too slow than to wipe out because you can't slow down enough. Look a decent distance ahead so that you can see any issues with the road surface - e.g. pot holes. Don't sit on the saddle - hover above it so that you can absorb any impacts through your legs without getting bounced around. Also, shift your bum back a little bit to put more weight over the back wheel, and descend on the drops rather than the hoods, with your elbows bent (which should also help absorb some of the bumps). Try to relax your hands and not grip too hard - also relax your shoulders as much as you can (if you tense up it will effect the steering and make it harder to flow over bumps).

The best descenders tend to be those who do a lot of mountain biking - you get more used to understanding the feedback that you are getting from the bike under you and more used to the bike moving around a lot more. Get out on the trails and have some fun, and you will reap big rewards on the road

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sergius | 7 years ago
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There are a few descents my way which suffer from similar issues.  I actually stacked on one of them after loosing control when I hit a pothole at speed.

I tend to take two approaches nowadays; if I know the hill really well then I make a point of learning where the holes/problems are - I can then fly down them with abandon knowing where the problem areas are.

If the whole thing  is bad then I either cut the descent out of my routes (ride up it not down!) or just take it easy and stay under 25mph. 

 

I'm only racing myself anyway (Strava!)

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Nat Jas Moe | 7 years ago
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Having done this hill several times 

www.strava.com/activities/458057218/segments/11015775157

I think one of the main things is NOT to give your bars the death grip, try to remain reelaxed, which I know is difficult given the horrendous road surface. Also try to stay out of the gutter and be in the middle of the lane. At these speeds nothing is going to try an overtake you. Also avoid the brakes at all costs as this defeats the object of these exilerating downhills, and as you observe can make things worse. Some people observe that position is also a deciding factor, ie wear your weight is fore and aft.

 

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700c | 7 years ago
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With caution!

I'm not sure I'd change wheels or tyre pressures for just one hill - there will always be some descents where discretion is the better part of valour! Then kane it on the smoother, safer sections  3

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VeloUSA | 7 years ago
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If running clinchers what first comes to my mind is try running with lower tire pressure, but not so low you blow the tires off the rim bead. Wheel bounce also can be caused by overly stiff wheels. Last resort for better handling would be tubeless/tubular.

Hope someone comes along with experience riding on this road who can offer you better advice than mine.

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