HOLY GRAIL: CYCLO-WINTER-TOURER

BartaCoPaNibali wrote:

Forget hydraulic disc brakes. IMO they make no sense on a bike to be used for all purposes. Go mechanical.

If you don't mind me asking, any particular reason ?

Maintenance and freezing in cold weather.

However, if you have a lot of time on your hands (I do not, unfortunately) and/or money (for a mechanic) and/or do not cycle in deep Winter with minus temperatures (as I do), hydraulic is fine.

It is a bit like electronic gears: great technology, fantastic when it works, but it is one more thing which can go wrong and, when it does, it is pretty spectacular in its failure.

BartaCoPaNibali wrote:

Maintenance and freezing in cold weather.

However, if you have a lot of time on your hands (I do not, unfortunately) and/or money (for a mechanic) and/or do not cycle in deep Winter with minus temperatures (as I do), hydraulic is fine.

It is a bit like electronic gears: great technology, fantastic when it works, but it is one more thing which can go wrong and, when it does, it is pretty spectacular in its failure.

Well firstly you mentioned a bike used for 'all purposes' - for most that wouldn't involve spending a lot of time at minus temperatures. That said, i'm not sure which hydraulics you've been using but i've generally found the maintenance to be less than with cable - albeit with some more faff if you want to bleed them. As for freezing - nah. The viscosity of the fluid can increase at lower temperatures, like grease in a mechanical set-up, and you can get some seal issues at really low temperatures (material becomes more brittle) but that is way beyond your 'general use' point. For a view on hydraulics in cold temperatures you might want to read some of the manufacturer and technical feedback in the following from VeloNews, in particular the points the guy from Hayes makes

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/01/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/tech...

Here's one take-away

The hydraulics-in-the-cold story is pretty straightforward. The DOT systems behave well down to at least -50F. Mineral-oil systems show slower retraction starting in the -20s or so but still perform well as far as braking.

and another (for balance)

I would basically rank things as such: Down to around -15F, hydraulic brakes will work the best; some may develop a sluggish feel based on the quality of the product. Below that, DOT brakes will hold up better, but below -30F, if you really need to ride your bike, mechanicals [cable-actuated disc brakes] will be the most reliable — if you can move your fingers enough to pull the lever.

..so I can see you point if you're regularly spending time below -30F (even then, cable pull discs are fine apparently. Remember, they're almost all hydraulic in the end.

As for hydraulic going spectacularly wrong.. no more than any fully mechanical system. So, for a 'bike for all purposes' - for most of us - I would say you're clutching at straws. If you don't like fully-hydraulic discs or even discs period, fine - it's your choice - but for the majority they're a good option the pros and cons of which can be explained without recourse to FUD.

You are barking up the wrong tree. You have misunderstood "Well firstly you mentioned a bike used for 'all purposes' - for most that wouldn't involve spending a lot of time at minus temperatures."

All in my dictionary means "all". It might mean "all" also in the OP's. I use spike tires in the Winter.

"All" is not relative. It is an absolute.

If I had meant less than all, I would have used the word "most", or "many".

By the way, "all", if you are wondering, also means torrential rain, (at times, unfortunately) gale force winds, sleet and so on. Maybe it does not for you, but I rely 100% on my bike for commuting.

And that is my further point, my CX sits regularly in the bike rack at work at -10 degrees Celsius. I am glad yours does not, but I prefer not to risk testing the "experts".

And BTW, I look at the pros, but I do not base my decisions on the pros. If that were the case, I would have Di2 and disc brakes on my road bike now.

BartaCoPaNibali wrote:

You are barking up the wrong tree. You have misunderstood "Well firstly you mentioned a bike used for 'all purposes' - for most that wouldn't involve spending a lot of time at minus temperatures."

All in my dictionary means "all". It might mean "all" also in the OP's. I use spike tires in the Winter.

"All" is not relative. It is an absolute.

If I had meant less than all, I would have used the word "most", or "many".

By the way, "all", if you are wondering, also means torrential rain, (at times, unfortunately) gale force winds, sleet and so on. Maybe it does not for you, but I rely 100% on my bike for commuting.

And that is my further point, my CX sits regularly in the bike rack at work at -10 degrees Celsius. I am glad yours does not, but I prefer not to risk testing the "experts".

Well, well - I guess you do mean absolutely every situation conceivable, I imagine that's very helpful to the OP. I won't ask what equipment Edit: 'an all purpose' bike should have against fine sand, coarse dust, high humidity and temperature, salt and so on and so on as you've obviously thought about that then - hub gears i'd imagine for a start. I have most of what you do, bar the regular low temps but the rest is the same and haven't had any problems with rim brakes, cable pull discs or hydraulics - so I don't see the issue you think there is.

As for your temperature comment - hydraulics should be fine at that relatively innocuous temperature according to feedback i've heard from the people who actually use them, the people that build bikes with them and the manufacturers.. what problems did you have with them in particular ?

BartaCoPaNibali wrote:

And BTW, I look at the pros, but I do not base my decisions on the pros. If that were the case, I would have Di2 and disc brakes on my road bike now.

I didn't suggest you only consider the pros, don't be obtuse. A lot of people base their decisions on both the pros and cons - where the cons dictate a choice is untenable, they clearly are the gating issue. This is not one of those situations and regardless of performance, you don't need 'lots of time' or money or a mechanic to use hydraulics, even in the winter. Whatever, I don't expect you to agree - I just wanted to point out your advice my not be helpful to the OP and sounds based on unfounded fears which, when pointed out to you, you ignored instead of commented on. Hey ho.

My hydraulic discs work fine down to minus 20 odd (C). I don't tend to use the bike when it is colder than that.

BartaCoPaNibali wrote:

Maintenance and freezing in cold weather.

However, if you have a lot of time on your hands (I do not, unfortunately) and/or money (for a mechanic) and/or do not cycle in deep Winter with minus temperatures (as I do), hydraulic is fine.

It is a bit like electronic gears: great technology, fantastic when it works, but it is one more thing which can go wrong and, when it does, it is pretty spectacular in its failure.

I have ridden my hydraulic brakes bikes in below zero temps and the brakes don't freeze. I think you are thinking of SRAM with their seals issues.

I have had my Di2 for over a year and have ridden it in some atrocious weather including a hurricane with rain of biblical(Prudenetial 2014) proportions, it worked perfectly.

Servicing is a fun part of owning a bike whatever the kit it has. If you cant fix it then you are missing out on some great skills