Support road.cc

Like this site? Help us to make it better.

Giving up with pro cycling, maybe

the past two weeks have shown frankly unbelievable results and times if you believe the peloton is clean.

Seeing a 35 year old win so many times, better than he was doping and younger riders being blasted out are for me clear warning signs. I love watching the cycling, I love the coverage but I am lose to giving it up because so many seem gullible. The latest is this nonsense ....

the Inner Ring @inrng
Fabio Aru tells La Gazzetta Dello Sport he got dysentery, 5kg weight loss no figure of speech, went from 62kg to 57kg, now at 60kg

dysentery, oh FFS what a lie

then the case of Kittel disappearing with a 'virus'

the reluctance to kick out Astana

Is it really back to the EPO days ?

I had so many hopes for Cookson

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

Add new comment

44 comments

Avatar
pants | 8 years ago
0 likes

Eddy Merckx - La Course en Tete (1974)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hnLjiTzejo

the person who uploaded that also uploaded a sunday in hell.

Avatar
Stumps | 8 years ago
0 likes

Can someone point me in the direction of where this 6.5w/kg came from ? Is it in the Gazzetta article which states he's back upto 60kg which is ultimately only a loss of 2kg.

Also Wiggins lost just over 3kg for his 2012 TdF victory and was tested constantly so why cant Aru be poorly, lose a load of weight, and then put some back on to be almost the same ?

Or is it because he rides for Astana, heaven forbid he rode for Sky as the gallows would have been built for him by now.

Avatar
AJ101 | 8 years ago
0 likes

tl;dr; - for the duration of the final alpine climb of the day

Avatar
fukawitribe replied to AJ101 | 8 years ago
0 likes
AJ101 wrote:

tl;dr; - for the duration of the final alpine climb of the day

...then 6.5W/kg is probably pushing it to say the least, suspicious coming back from illness or not if over 30 mins

Avatar
AJ101 | 8 years ago
0 likes

For those new to the w/kg ideas - http://sportsscientists.com/2014/07/the-physiology-at-the-front-of-the-t... - long but worthwhile

Avatar
AJ101 | 8 years ago
0 likes

I'd be interested to know what the current preparation is for riders to drop so much weight and still maintain power. Clenbuterol etc can be tested for so it's going to be something more sophisticated, off the radar and hence not strictly illegal (apart from the no needles part). Any ideas?

Avatar
Stumps | 8 years ago
0 likes

The Aru weight loss is not a big thing, you just have to look at Cav with his regular weight loss.
In 9 days i lost 7kg after coming back from Kenya with a stomach bug so why cant someone else lose a similar amount of weight.

Avatar
AJ101 replied to Stumps | 8 years ago
0 likes
stumps wrote:

The Aru weight loss is not a big thing, you just have to look at Cav with his regular weight loss.
In 9 days i lost 7kg after coming back from Kenya with a stomach bug so why cant someone else lose a similar amount of weight.

They can, but they wouldn't retain power.

Avatar
fukawitribe replied to AJ101 | 8 years ago
0 likes
AJ101 wrote:
stumps wrote:

The Aru weight loss is not a big thing, you just have to look at Cav with his regular weight loss.
In 9 days i lost 7kg after coming back from Kenya with a stomach bug so why cant someone else lose a similar amount of weight.

They can, but they wouldn't retain power.

Indeed, and that's what happens when riders drop weight for, e.g. climbing in the grand tours. It's a balance between the absolute power you lose and the power-to-weight you gain - and they're never going to match a stand-alone TT performance
with one during the Giro for example. Riders know that, acknowledge that but it's often not what will win the tour.

Avatar
Chasseur Patate replied to Stumps | 8 years ago
0 likes
stumps wrote:

The Aru weight loss is not a big thing, you just have to look at Cav with his regular weight loss.
In 9 days i lost 7kg after coming back from Kenya with a stomach bug so why cant someone else lose a similar amount of weight.

And still put out 6.5 w/kg?

Ok.

Avatar
fukawitribe replied to Chasseur Patate | 8 years ago
0 likes
Chasseur Patate wrote:
stumps wrote:

The Aru weight loss is not a big thing, you just have to look at Cav with his regular weight loss.
In 9 days i lost 7kg after coming back from Kenya with a stomach bug so why cant someone else lose a similar amount of weight.

And still put out 6.5 w/kg?

Ok.

For how long ? Even I can put out 6.5W/kg for a time - it's just that that time is rather short...

Avatar
bashthebox | 8 years ago
0 likes

Professional sportspeople are gonna do everything possible within the rules to be the best. There's a hell of a grey area around substances and practices not yet banned I guess. With regards to the Kittel blood irradiation allegations - wasn't aware, have now read a bit. Inner Ring suggests it's not gonna be performance enhancing, and wasn't illegal at the time (http://inrng.com/2012/01/blood-irradiation-explained/) but I'd agree taking blood out and putting it back in is ropey behaviour... wasn't exactly banned at the time though. Mind you, things that have only recently been banned include xenon gas and tramadol, so hey ho.

Avatar
AJ101 | 8 years ago
0 likes

Well at least he doesn't keep wobbling around cos of Tramadol usage or get his salbutamol machine out before launching a big attack...

Avatar
Kadinkski | 8 years ago
0 likes

Kittel's as bent as any of them. Removing his blood, treating it with ultraviolet light and then transferring it back into his system like a dirty criminal. It wasn't ruled illegal until later but doing that after all the blood doping & transfusion scandals. The lengths he is prepared to go to. What does that tell you about him?

Avatar
bashthebox | 8 years ago
0 likes

If Kittel was doping he'd be able to get up hills without looking like a sunday rider. He's also an extremely outspoken advocate for clean cycling. I'm giving him a very wide pass; he's fast in the finish but absolutely nothing about the way he rides suggests doping.

Avatar
AJ101 replied to bashthebox | 8 years ago
0 likes
bashthebox wrote:

If Kittel was doping he'd be able to get up hills without looking like a sunday rider. He's also an extremely outspoken advocate for clean cycling. I'm giving him a very wide pass; he's fast in the finish but absolutely nothing about the way he rides suggests doping.

Absolutely mate, the blood irradiation treatment he was doing back in 2006ish wasn't illegal then, so he was in the clear. He is totally 100% trustable rider.

Avatar
pants | 8 years ago
0 likes

When the last Astana scandal broke out I said to myself I will no longer follow pro cycling if the team can carry on riding, and now here they are. Fuck it, everyone should just go out for rides and watch old videos of Eddy Merckx.

Avatar
Kadinkski replied to pants | 8 years ago
0 likes
pants wrote:

When the last Astana scandal broke out I said to myself I will no longer follow pro cycling if the team can carry on riding, and now here they are. Fuck it, everyone should just go out for rides and watch old videos of Eddy Merckx.

Agreed. Speaking of which, saw A Sunday in Hell for the first time the other day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxBTVU9JDrA

Avatar
manmachine | 8 years ago
0 likes

LMFAO...
'Life bans' giving up pro cycling...etc, etc.
 20  20  20

 24  24  24

Another hysterical episode of the fan-boy Muppet show!

Avatar
Chasseur Patate | 8 years ago
0 likes

That said. When Valverde and Rebellin win I tend to throw stuff at my telly. It's like being at the pantomime. Every show needs a bad guy.

Booooooooo!!!!!!

Avatar
Colin Peyresourde | 8 years ago
0 likes

Pandora's box is open and no man can close it.

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another, in fact the more a team/rider wins it probably makes it clear he does. In some ways Armstrong is right, that doping makes it a level playing field...of sorts. There is still competition because at the apex of the arms race testing is helping give parity. But like all sports, money buys winners - money buys guarantees and it does that by buying the insurance of medication which is a shame. Money, as anyone who follows the Premiership spoils competition.

I can still enjoy the races. But the things I enjoy the most are the unpredictable, the chaos thrown into the system - E3 this year will remain with me for a long time, and Omloop.

Avatar
fukawitribe replied to Colin Peyresourde | 8 years ago
0 likes
Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another

I think you'd find most people agreeing that there is doping going in pretty much every sport at some level - but that last bit just doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be saying that all teams are doping and doing so at the same level. Do you see no possible issue with that sort of judgement - even ignoring evidence (or the lack of) and logic, does it not seem odd to you from a statistical point of view ?

Avatar
Colin Peyresourde replied to fukawitribe | 8 years ago
0 likes
fukawitribe wrote:
Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another

I think you'd find most people agreeing that there is doping going in pretty much every sport at some level - but that last bit just doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be saying that all teams are doping and doing so at the same level. Do you see no possible issue with that sort of judgement - even ignoring evidence (or the lack of) and logic, does it not seem odd to you from a statistical point of view ?

Nope. I'm not saying that they are doping equally efficiently. I'm saying that they are all in an arms race and that they all pick up the weapons of war. If you read my comment again. You'll see I then talk about the role of money.

I could qualify things further. But this is a comments page. Not an essay page.

Avatar
fukawitribe replied to Colin Peyresourde | 8 years ago
0 likes
Colin Peyresourde wrote:
fukawitribe wrote:
Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another

I think you'd find most people agreeing that there is doping going in pretty much every sport at some level - but that last bit just doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be saying that all teams are doping and doing so at the same level. Do you see no possible issue with that sort of judgement - even ignoring evidence (or the lack of) and logic, does it not seem odd to you from a statistical point of view ?

Nope. I'm not saying that they are doping equally efficiently.

Indeed i'm not assuming the same efficiency but it would seem to involve a such a huge difference in it that the odds of it being a viable hypothesis are dropping markedly.

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I'm saying that they are all in an arms race and that they all pick up the weapons of war. If you read my comment again. You'll see I then talk about the role of money.

Of course they're in an arms race, and there is a huge amount of money in many sports (not much, all things considered, in pro-cycling at the team level) - but without any realistic evidence for the effects of all this cash it makes you wonder whether there is something more nuanced going one... and this is also disregarding the fact that, even considering that pharmaceutical application will always lead detection, the physical performance of the riders doesn't seem to track the budgets. I'm sure there is a significant amount of doping still going on in the pro-peloton but I don't have the absolute conviction that every team is knowingly and systemically doing it that you have - and you don't seem to have any compelling evidence to suggest you're correct.

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I could qualify things further. But this is a comments page. Not an essay page.

I'm all ears...

Avatar
phebeM replied to Colin Peyresourde | 8 years ago
0 likes
Colin Peyresourde wrote:

Pandora's box is open and no man can close it.

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another, in fact the more a team/rider wins it probably makes it clear he does. In some ways Armstrong is right, that doping makes it a level playing field...of sorts. There is still competition because at the apex of the arms race testing is helping give parity. But like all sports, money buys winners - money buys guarantees and it does that by buying the insurance of medication which is a shame. Money, as anyone who follows the Premiership spoils competition.

I can still enjoy the races. But the things I enjoy the most are the unpredictable, the chaos thrown into the system - E3 this year will remain with me for a long time, and Omloop.

This remind me of Football Gambling in China. Money plays.

Avatar
ianrobo | 8 years ago
0 likes

the aforementioned Kittel has abandoned in Yorkshire, presume the 'virus' eh ?

Avatar
farrell replied to ianrobo | 8 years ago
0 likes
ianrobo wrote:

the aforementioned Kittel has abandoned in Yorkshire, presume the 'virus' eh ?

Surely if he was using the virus as a cover for missing the race to avoid a "glow" period being detected, it would be pretty pointless to actually go and attempt the race?

The testers would be able to take a sample when he gets back to the team bus.

Avatar
Chasseur Patate replied to ianrobo | 8 years ago
0 likes
ianrobo wrote:

the aforementioned Kittel has abandoned in Yorkshire, presume the 'virus' eh ?

Clutching at straws with Kittel there to be honest. Other than being extremely quick (which isn't a crime btw) there are no alarm bells ringing with him for me. He was reported as looking quite ill at the start today.

Avatar
ianrobo | 8 years ago
0 likes

well anyone watching the big fight this weekend is ignoring the fact one of the fighters dopes and likely the other has but fight fans ignore that.

I can not in any sport ignore doping because it cheats those who are not, obviously.

Life bans is where I am for any doping offence and that IMHO would have a significant deterrent. Plus if sponsors etc ask for money back if people dope ...

Avatar
crikey | 8 years ago
0 likes

Two quotes which sum it up:

'Professional cycling is like sausages; I like sausages, but I don't want to know how they are made'

'Watching Pro cycling is like watching Game of Thrones; best not to get too attached to any of the main characters'

Pages

Latest Comments