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OUtsourcing of OEM Carbon Frames VERSUS 2nd Hand Market : thought-provoking questions

Outsourcing of OEM Carbon Frames VERSUS 2nd Hand Market : thought-provoking questions
Are OEM frames worth the Gamble ?
Frame is of the most important in a bike, then comes the wheels, and after the groupset and your bodyweight.
Don't it seems awkard to save & gamble on a frame BUT mount compi record 11, sram ed or durace +very expensive wheels on it ?

Good Morning Everyone!

A new trend is to outsource carbon frame and go with OEM supplier. On the other hand, the 2nd hand market cycles also offer budget oriented choices.

A / In shops in my surrounding, here’s what I’ve found:
- Trek Domane 4.7c full Ultegra + Look pedals = 1333 euros
- Specialized Tarmac Dura Ace mavic ksyrium around 2000 / 2200 euros (depending of the day and state of mind of the sales person (seriously ! ;-D) .

B/ Outsourcing of stiff carbon frame
I do compared size 54 of different frames, including major brand’s geometry.
==> see attached documents

In my concern, it looks like open molds geometries of FM011, FM098, AIRY-RD, FOX2-RD are all-right. (some are UCI accredited, I’ve double check on the online official papers). Unfortunately I didn’t have time to have a closer look to HF Fm296, HF FM069, HF FM066, FM-R839, FM-WQ01, FM-R869, FM-R868.

FYI : OEM carbon frames cost between 445 et 650 US Dollars,
There are 2 main carbon fiber providers for OEM and major brand in cycling industry toray et mitsubishi rayon.
But the mix of “glue” quality is of matter, and also “joints” & “cooking times”. Did you know that joint resistance are far less "stiff" than the rest of the bike. For some ugly frame, the more carbon fiber are stiff, the most likely bike joint will suffer, depending of usage of box joint of other "technologies" .

In my opinion, to keep it simple, and cost efficient, it’s better to have a BSA if you ever go to outsourcing at this time. Price of good BB30 or PF30 cranks are still quite expensive, tools too.

Let’s keep in mind this good pun of Keith Bontrager : "Strong. Light. Cheap. Pick Two."
If I outsource the frame, which is a major component of a cycle why would I bother with Sram Red, Dura Ace or even ultegra ? Some people do put campi Record on those frames, I would not... @'_'@ But still it looks like an incredible machine: http://seanblurr.com/2014/01/03/skunkworks/

I would rather equip an OEM bike as follow:
Shimano 105 5800 11v 52-36t + 11-28t - 172,5 (+170g versus ultegra but 350euros less !). Would you really fell the 170g if you would go ultegra ? Lots of people say in terms of pure “functions”, nowadays 105 5800 and ultegra 6800 acts the same.
Wheels: Fulcrum Racing Quattro or Mavic Aksium.

All blabla about wheels weight are interesting… but when you ask some completely independent scientists, that if you upgrade from already “good” wheels like these I mention, the performance difference would be quite low compared to you losing 2kg of body weight (and this cost ZERO with max wins).
Marketing guys don’t tell you train harder, and get proper meals, get lean.
Unless you get major level in cycling, you will not outperform someone because you buy SRAM red and Campi Record do YOU ? But if you really enjoy stat of the art, and you have the money for it, that’s another story. If you google it there are some interesting calculus about that NOT carrying 2kgs of body mass lead you to perform really better and compare it with money to weight ratio (wheels, frame, bodymass). Unfortunately I can’t find the paper nor the link. If somebody find it online, that’s would be great to post it on the forum!

To cut a long story short, we have 2 WAYS to go through, with equivalent prices between 1283/2000 euros, (1440 US $ to 2244 US $ // 958 £ BPS to 1500 £ BPS.

Industrial processing of a specialized roubaix or a trek domane must certainly not be the same of an OEM supplier, that’s for sure… but for a stiff “standard” frame, quality of the “glue” is of everything, but must not be THAT complex, whatever what marketing guys says…
But get luck and get a wonderful frame which can compare to the best top brands;
get a bad quality frame and you could go to hospital if it ever brake in the worse circumstances.

What do you think about these alternatives to buying an all brand new bike?

I have a major concern about OEM outsourcing : how can we avoid others bad experiences. In the OEM frames world, there the goods, the bads and the uglies. Perhaps you guys can share experience and do some advise / avoid tips.
I did find here lots of info based on Open Molds Models Number BUT for the same number you guys can get differents frames, depending on suppliers.
Many concerns about frame quality, but one of my concern is also Payment Methods, transactions security and in the hand how to avoid losing money.

Here are some OEM suppliers I've found.
Some of them do show their certified frame test documents, but not for alll frames. Other, are just have no ideas what they selling and what's they are talking about, specially if you ask them about bikes geometry. lol

hongfu-bikes / avengercycles / uamcycling (c'est les mêmes)
dengfubikes
figmo / edge design
top-fire
workswellbikes
miraclebikes
greatkeenbike
swiftcarbon
lamerecycles
nudbikes
flyxii
velocite-bikes
xmiplay
top-fire
topmostbike
planetx (OEM reseller, but not sure from which plant. Any info ?)
vitus / chainreactioncycles (Designers of vitus, OEM providers, but not sure.)

There are a LOT to talk about.
Let's see what do YOU think.

Some links to info relative to this subject :
/content/forum/82081-have-you-wasted-money-super-light-new-wheels
http://www.usatriathlon.org/about-multisport/multisport-zone/multisport-...
http://bikeraceinfo.com/training-fitness/power-weight-ratio.html
http://wattbike.com/au/guide/using_the_wattbike/power_to_weight_ratio

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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