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Tyre grip when it gets cold...

When the temperature gets down to 5 degrees(ish) do some tyres lose grip, perhaps because the rubber is cold? I run Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres (32s) on my winter commuter/hybrid but they seem particularly 'slippy' in cold weather, even at 80psi. They're great for puncture protection but were a complete nightmare on a cold commute this morning. I 'hit the deck' on a slightly frosty bit of cycle path (apologies to chap behind me who also went down avoiding me). Carried on cautiously feeling like I was on a skid pan only to have 2 chaps on road bikes steam past at 20mph. Might have been some 'mind over matter' going on with my brain telling me I was about to fall off when there wasn't anything to worry about. Even though it isn't freezing, tarmac does get that 'greasy' feel at 5 degrees.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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bike_food | 9 years ago
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I think once you've had an off or come close you tend to tighten up with fear that it's going to happen again when you encounter ice, damp, mud (all 3) etc.
The act of tightening up changes your riding style meaning the bike feels even more weird e.g. light at the front end so you may increase your chances of coming off.

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JudgeDreddful | 9 years ago
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Ah, so it's probably more a case of being more careful and aware than needing to replace my tyres? Although that does make perfect sense, as it was bloody freezing on Saturday and the place I came off is in the shade pretty much all day in the winter so even though I came off at about 11AM and the sun had been up for a couple of hours it was still frozen there.

At least it was 2 miles away from home after a nice long-ish (for me) ride rather than 2 miles from home on the way out....

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joemmo | 9 years ago
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glad you're ok. Roundabouts are dodgy, combination of fuel spills, tyre rubber and a tight bend. I had a similar incident, front wheel went out and just hit the deck before I could even react, can just remember scrambling to get out of the road onto the roundabout island. Drivers also stopped to check I was ok, which was nice.

No tyre (apart from a spiked one) is going to do anything on black ice though. I had marathons for a while but I didn't really find the tread made much difference to a slick tread, plus it tended to pick up more glass that worked its way into the tyre over time.

Oh, and white road markings make things worse so dont try turning on a mini-roundabout 'disc'. That's asking for trouble.

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JudgeDreddful | 9 years ago
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This is all useful info for me, thanks. I had my first spill and went down face first on black ice on Saturday morning whilst negotiating a mini roundabout. All drivers stopped and asked if I was ok, which was nice (although maybe its because I'm in genteel Cheltenham) It did shake me up slightly though. No real damage to me - other than hurt pride and a skinned knee - and a slightly bent brake lever on the bike.

Ironically me and my equally noob mate had been chatting 10 minutes previously about how we had both been told by more experienced cyclists that the occasional spill was inevitable and how we weren't looking forward to it happening.

New tyres needed I think as I will happily sacrifice speed for grip. I've not got any speed anyway and so would much prefer more grip....

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harman_mogul | 9 years ago
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Yes, good riding technique is the best advice!

But for what it's worth, I have found the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme grips ever so well and is worth the extra money over the regular Marathon.

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TallerThanTheRain | 9 years ago
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From an unfortunate spontaneous experiment I "conducted" in October I can conclude that gravity on a hairpin bend is greater than gravity on the flat. Also, tarmac is harder than hip.

Conti GP4000 25mm at 90/95 psi - normally good, grippy tyres, but a bit of moisture on a "greasy" surface will challenge any compound.

Of course, it was my own fault for riding my "Sunday best" bike on a Thursday...

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Man of Lard | 9 years ago
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@hampstead_bandit - you're describing understeer...

From wiki:
Simply put, oversteer is what occurs when a car turns (steers) by more than (over) the amount commanded by the driver. Conversely, understeer is what occurs when a car steers less than (under) the amount commanded by the driver.

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hampstead_bandit | 9 years ago
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@Reggie Plate

my experience of what you talk about is what I guess would be called "oversteer" in a car?

Where you start to make a turn but don't find traction and it feels like the car / bike wants to go in a straight line rather than turn in the direction you want.

The rear wheel also seems to have less traction when climbing. I am also running disc brakes, but the tires seem to the limiting factor in these conditions

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J90 | 9 years ago
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Winter isn't the time to be going balls out.

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johnnymcg259 replied to J90 | 9 years ago
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J90 wrote:

Winter isn't the time to be going balls out.

+1  41

There are so many combo's/different factors involved so whichever tyre you run on tarmac in the UK winter will cope ok most of the time.......but not all of the time.

Just keep the pedalin' smooth and steady, keep seated if poss on climbs and don't bank the bike over too far when going through corners or kick the power on too much out of the corner.

Good luck all!

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Bikeylikey | 9 years ago
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When you say tyres 'feel' or 'seem' slippery, as a few have here, it would be helpful if you could be more specific - have you actually skidded, or is it more just an impression that you might?

I went out a couple of weeks ago on some Vittoria Rubino 25s at 95 and 90psi and slipped three times, one of them the front. I changed them next day for Conti 4 season 28s at 80 and 85psi, did the same route with wet leaves, a steep wet slope, trying to make it skid in places, and found them rock solid. I've also got some Vredestein Fortezza Senso (not the 'extreme' version) 25mm on another bike. They have slipped once, which was a disappointment as I'd bought them for what was advertised as their grip. I'm thinking of getting some 27mm Vittoria Roubaix, which are advertised as sticking to wet greasy cobbles - any experience of these? Are they slow on dry sections of smooth tarmac?

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Reg Molehusband replied to Bikeylikey | 9 years ago
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bikeylikey wrote:

When you say tyres 'feel' or 'seem' slippery, as a few have here, it would be helpful if you could be more specific - have you actually skidded, or is it more just an impression that you might?

Further to my earlier post about how it felt riding on greasy roads. It's hard to explain but it's as though the front tyre is barely touching the road surface. Steering just doesn't feel as precise. I have disc brakes and braking has also been a bit scary at times.

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joemmo replied to Reg Molehusband | 9 years ago
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Reggie Plate wrote:
bikeylikey wrote:

When you say tyres 'feel' or 'seem' slippery, as a few have here, it would be helpful if you could be more specific - have you actually skidded, or is it more just an impression that you might?

Further to my earlier post about how it felt riding on greasy roads. It's hard to explain but it's as though the front tyre is barely touching the road surface. Steering just doesn't feel as precise. I have disc brakes and braking has also been a bit scary at times.

usual rules apply - brake before the corner in a straight line, take a smooth line round the corner and stay off the front brake. A bit of back wheel sliding is controllable but losing the front wheel generally is not. You might also try getting your weight forward a bit more, put your weight on the outside pedal and just lift off the saddle slightly and move your hips forward. If it feels really sketchy then unclip the inside foot and reach forward with it ready to dab if it really goes wrong . As others have said, it's not the time of year to explore the limits of your tyre grip.

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gmehje1 | 9 years ago
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Just csme back from quick hours ride using these for first time:

Vredestein Fortezza Senso Xtreme Weather

£25 each from ribble.

Their description:

Competition tyre for extremely cold and wet weather conditions
Features Vredestein's newly developed XWS compound
Low rolling resistance and outstanding grip
Vredestein's Curve Control System guarantees durability and exceptional ride quality

First impressions.
4degrees, slippery wet sections of road - one particular bit was 15 % incline with streaming water and many leaves. Rock solid tyres with truly excellent grip and great feel.
I have the Vredestein red senso all weather on my race wheels and they too are excellent.

Worth looking ad.
Cheers, G

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amazon22 replied to gmehje1 | 9 years ago
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gmehje1 wrote:

Just csme back from quick hours ride using these for first time:

Vredestein Fortezza Senso Xtreme Weather

£25 each from ribble.

Thanks, I'll give them a go - they're actually £45 for two at the moment - just bought a pair - cheaper than than the physio I had to pay when I last fell off.

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Roberj4 | 9 years ago
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I running Conti Gatorskins 25mm 95psi and take it easy on corners. Best tyre I've ever used in winter/all year round is from Panaracer 'EVO' but they are an expensive tyres with amazing grip in the wet. These where recommended to me by other club mates but they do eventually cut and blister from wear hense why I believe they are not a popular stock item by dealers, Wiggle being one of them due to the returns they must have had.

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hampstead_bandit | 9 years ago
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I've just got back from a 100km ride starting in Milton Keynes then onto Buckingham, to Stewkley and berkhamstead and to Watford. Early morning it was -3 degrees and my conti 4 seasons in 25mm at 90psi still felt slippery on the country lanes.

By the middle of the day grip was better, but still not great compared to rides during warmer days. I cannot blame leaf debris or wet as the roads were clean enough that my bike looks as clean as when I cleaned it yesterday.

Rubber durometer is definitely affected by ambient temperature, but then I wonder about the affect of temperature on macadam (tarmac)? Any highway engineers about?

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Rod Marton | 9 years ago
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I too run Marathon Plus my winter bike and also find them slippy. Unfortunately there is no tyre that does everything and what you gain on puncture resistance and durability you lose on grip and performance. If you want more grip you will have to sacrifice one of these. Personally I just accept their limitations and take it gently on the corners in the frost - they aren't exactly high performance racing tyres after all.

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David Arthur @d... | 9 years ago
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The roads are really slippery at the moment, a result of the conditions, salt spreading and a lack of rain to clean the road surfaces.

There's no point blaming your tyres, because even the best tyres struggle in such conditions - I've crashed in such conditions on expensive Vittoria, because quite simply it doesn't take much speed and lean angle to overcome the limits of traction provided by a very narrow racing tyre

The best advice is to just take it really easy, scrub of more speed before heading through corners, and try and avoid leaning the bike over too much, especially on roundabouts or where the road is slightly cambered. Let a bit of pressure out of the tyres too, that helps, I run my tyres at about 85psi front and rear

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gdmor10 | 9 years ago
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I also hit the deck this morning, my own fault really and a gash on my knee and a stiff shoulder to show for it.

What I feel more sad about though is that I did it in front of a queue or cars and not one of them rolled down their window to ask if I was okay.

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dafyddp | 9 years ago
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Summer bike has Conti GP4000s, Winter bike has Conti GatorSkins - both are 25mm.
When it's just wet and slippy, a bit of token tread won't really make much difference, IMO. Ive found that lowering the pressure helps a little but then you risk pinch punctures (I managed to pinch-puncture both wheels recently going over a flooded cattle grid). I suspect the best option is probably a propper grippy cyclocross tubless run at really low pressure - so long as you don't mind a serious drop in speed?
Right number of wheel/tyres? n+1, of course, just like bikes.

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le Bidon | 9 years ago
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I run my Conti GP4000s IIs all year round - unbeatable grip. I always feel stable and confident - why change them? I suppose the slightly softer rubber helps a great deal.

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Streamliner replied to le Bidon | 9 years ago
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I swear by GP4000s in when it's warm, but in the cold and wet of winter they feel pretty sketchy. Switching to GP 4seasons was a massive improvement. I've tried a few tyres and I always expected them to feel rubbish in the cold, until I tried these ones. I must admit I've not tried the GP4000s II but I imagine they are basically race tyres similar to their predecessor. Give the 4 seasons a try, the grip and feel in the winter months is by far the best I've tried.

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Jimmy Ray Will | 9 years ago
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Yep... rubber gets harder when it gets cold, and therefore will have less grip.

However, the main difference is the grease on the road at this time of year. It is very slippery, so the simple answer is to take it easy on the bends.

Personally speaking I leave winter tyres alone, preferring to use a 'race' tyre all year round... My experience is that winter tyres gain puncture resistance and longevity at the cost of grip... something that is lacking in winter anyway.

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amazon22 | 9 years ago
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I'm running Conti Grand Prix 4 Season 25c's, but for the last couple of weeks my bike hasn't felt properly 'grounded' - the roads seem very greasy and this mixed in with leaves and mud means I'm going round corners very gingerly. I've got some 28c's I can swap to but I'm not sure they'll make that much difference. Dropping the pressure on the 25's didn't seem to make a lot of difference to grip or speed.

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arfa | 9 years ago
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I ride gp4000's 25 cm all year round but as soon as there is a hint of ice/mulchy leaves I ride the MTB. Only studded tyres really help on proper ice so I am not sure changing tyres ro anything else will help.

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Reg Molehusband | 9 years ago
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I know the feeling. I've got Continental Grand Sport Race 25c tyres fitted at the moment with very little tread to speak of. Just recently on an early morning ride, the front felt as if it was going to fold at any second. The road surface seemed to have a greasy layer on it. Not a good sensation. If I'm going to carry on riding through the winter I'll have to try and squeeze on pair of more treaded 28c. I don't think the bike will take anything bigger.

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