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Strength Training in the Gym

Hey folks, I'm looking to increase my power-to-weight in the gym over the winter. I'd like to do strength work in the gym on Saturday mornings, but with minimal DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) the next day, in order to not feel awful on the Sunday club run. I can supplement with home exercises on other days, provided I know what to do.

Do you think this is possible, or am I trying to have my cake and eat it? Can anyone provide thoughts on what exercises, intensity etc would suit?

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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Colin Peyresourde | 9 years ago
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There's been some good advice here, but a lot of it seems to be off beam with your stated target. Power lifting and weight lifting/body building are not exactly synonymous, although there is cross over.

Your stated goal of getting a better power to weight ratio is more in line with power lifting, and the advice from the power lifter above is pretty much on the mark. Fundamentally it's about moving kg in the shortest amount of time. And so the training is heavy and explosive. But the downside is that you can do unintended damage by having bad form. So start out slow/light and perfect the form. There are some good techniques that can be picked up from crossfit which has a lot of explosive training aspects and so builds up the exercises in a safe and structured way.

Some have commented on the excess weight and others the benefits of the gym. The truth is somewhere in between. Strength does not always equal a better power to weight ratio, and so you can build extraneous muscle which does not help you fly up the hills. But if you haven't appriached a gym before (and are young) you're likely to see improvements. But there will come a time where the mass you put on does not help.

Plyometrics are also a good adjunct to weight training and can be done in HIIT sessions. These exercises are done by basketball players, power lifters and 100m runners and are key to making the weights in the gym translate to the real world.

I would also bear in mind that the requirements for muscle building adaptation are often at odds with endurance sports. The nutrition required for growth will easily be sapped when doing a 2 hour ride and so you should probably phase you training for growing the strength and less cycling and then when you need to increase the cycling volume put the weights on the back burner. You cannot really do both well and expect to see gains in both. You are telling your body confused messages - it will likely end up breaking down muscle and just maintaining, rather than growing the muscle.

Finally, ensure that you do good stretching and core work. You don't want to get yourself stiff and in a reduced range of movement which leads to bad form. Down the road you'll be working your way in to an injury. The more I know about good form and posture makes me look at people with feet turned out, hunched backs and lordic curves and know that they will suffer some repetitive injury problem which they will not shake or have to manage the rest of their life. Get a good ROM and maintain core strength and you'll be set for life.

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Crankpoet | 9 years ago
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Anecdotally I found that going for some increased strength by upping the weights in the gym and reducing reps made me faster over some of my regular cycles and improved my running and swimming too. I am at the slow end of all disciplines still but getting quicker.....

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Russell Orgazoid | 9 years ago
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I think a variation in classes highly beneficial. Metafit, Kettle bells and circuits are all great and you will be tired and sore afterwards.
All involve a lot of squats etc.
Usually there is a high lady/man ratio to keep you keen too!

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MKultra | 9 years ago
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I would work on the top half especially if you like MTB or Cross Bikes.

A lot of riders neglect the upper body and this leaves you at risk from fractures, serious tears or separations in the event of a crash.

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bigmel | 9 years ago
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Road cycling is about oxygen transport & fat burning. Stay away from the gym unless you like carrying around excess bulk that gets 20 seconds of use occasionally. Fast riders are generally lightweight whippets.

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andyp replied to bigmel | 9 years ago
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bigmel wrote:

Fast riders are generally lightweight whippets.

A lot of professional lightweight whippets tend to use the gym. I'd be listening to coaches rather than internet speculation.

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glynr36 replied to bigmel | 9 years ago
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bigmel wrote:

Road cycling is about oxygen transport & fat burning. Stay away from the gym unless you like carrying around excess bulk that gets 20 seconds of use occasionally. Fast riders are generally lightweight whippets.

You don't get 'excess bulk' unless your diet permits it.
The over whelming majority of worldtour riders do some gym time, just not in the huge weights you're imagining.

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J90 replied to bigmel | 9 years ago
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bigmel wrote:

Road cycling is about oxygen transport & fat burning. Stay away from the gym unless you like carrying around excess bulk that gets 20 seconds of use occasionally. Fast riders are generally lightweight whippets.

You're an idiot. Building any sort of muscle mass worth talking about takes time and a fairly big calorie surplus.

Judging by your lack of knowledge, I'm guessing you haven't read about how Wiggins prepared for his World Championship Time Trial win? Both him and his physio attributed it to a lot of work off the bike, in the gym. That's not the only case study from the pro ranks either.

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bfslxo | 9 years ago
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If your hoping to gain muscle strength with a bit of shape there is really no getting away from the DOMS & as everyone is saying you need 2/3 days recovery after doing legs otherwise your weekend ride will suffer there is simply no getting around this – however take a protein shake asap after any workout of any sort as it reduces DOMS by 20% or at least I feel it does, in fact I take one every day as well as my post workouts, if you get a good quality high protein factor one (80% up) u will not gain weight no matter what you do if u continue cycling.

The chances of you doing heavy weights & bulking up like ‘Arnie’ are about 0% especially if you cycle at all during the week & weekend they are both so counter intuitive to each other its actually incredibly difficult to gain weight whilst heavy weight training unless you do more than 3-4 sessions a week & eat like a mad crazy possessed animal.

Anyone (s_Jim & fustuarium) talking about the 5 / 3 / 1 rep system is spot on right especially if your only doing it twice a week.

Read Jim Welders 5/3/1/ system (just internet search his name) another cyclist recommended it to me a while back & like me they cycle 100/150 a week during the winter up’ d in the summer – Jim Welder is a powerlifter by trade but knows what he’s talking about - I had been body weight training for 2 years twice a week & switched to the 5/3/1/ twice a week programme four months ago since then I have toned even better, gained a little bit of good muscle weight & know it will just get better & better – it is a really simple
basic program with very very small weight increases monthly & as the majority mention it hits all the major muscle groups in two workouts (or 3 or 4 if u wish but I follow the twice a week program) & gets ample time between for recovery before big rides combined.

My work kindly let me keep a bench in work (bought of gumtree £20 & build my weights collection up same way over time) & I can do all of these within my 60 min my lunch hour every Tues/Thur all year round (granted I don’t compete in any races)

The twice a week is 3 sets of the below with 3 warm up sets & (REALLY IMPORTANT!!) is performed at 65/75/80-90% of your maximum weights NEVER 100%

Warm Up: 1x5@40%, 1x5@50%, 1x3@60%
Monday
Squat – 5/3/1 sets and reps
Bench – 5/3/1 sets and reps
Assistance Exercises:
Chin-ups – 3 sets of 10 reps
Dumbbell Rows – 3 sets of 10 reps
Back Raises – 3 sets of 15 reps
Rear Laterals – 3 sets of 20 reps
Thursday
Deadlift – 5/3/1 sets and reps
Press – 5/3/1 sets and reps
Assistance Exercises:
Dumbbell Rows – 3 sets of 10 reps
Dips – 3 sets of 10 – 15 reps
Good Mornings – 3 sets of 10 reps
Curls – 3 sets of 10 reps

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J90 replied to bfslxo | 9 years ago
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bfslxo wrote:

Read Jim Welders 5/3/1/ system

I think you meant Wendler. Jim Welder sounds like a superhero's alter ego.

Anyway, Jim's program is a good introduction to strength training.

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notfastenough | 9 years ago
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Well I'm in the gym this afternoon so will look into the S&C aspect. I have a goals/personalisation appointment on saturday morning, but will check the guys quals. Thanks everyone.

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notfastenough | 9 years ago
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That's quite interesting from a pure weightlifting perspective. I'm unsure if we're thinking of 'strength' differently though. To clarify, I want to be a better bike rider - on hilly peak district and flattish Cheshire courses of around 60 miles each, I want to achieve higher average speeds, be faster on the long climbs and to regain my top end speed for pulling the group along quickly on the flat.

So, my week for the winter looks as follows:
Monday - commute, easy spin
Tuesday - commute, repeated short hard efforts (circa 30-60 seconds each)
Wednesday - rest
Thursday - 2 hour ride in the morning, 1 hour weights and core in the evening
Friday - rest
Saturday - Wattbike* session followed by weights and core
Sunday - club run, circa 4 hours/100km-ish

*Every 12 weeks I intend to record my FTP  31 , which will be the key metric for measuring my overall improvement. Other weeks will be split between climbing, intervals and technique sessions.

So from what I can see (happy to be corrected!), the gym work looks like:
Squats - 3 x 20
Deadlifts - 3 x 20
Curls - 3 x 20
Calf raises 3 x 20

Plus I can use a bunch of the upper body kit to avoid looking like popeye-legs/oliveoil-arms.

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CXR94Di2 | 9 years ago
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Re squats I personally do front squats and concentrate on form over high weight for the front squat. I also invested in a squat frame, just in case!

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sergius | 9 years ago
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Interesting stuff there, do you reckon it's fair to say there's a bit of a dichotomy between the powerlifting and the cycling?

When I look around at my gym, there are a load of huge, strong guys who clearly lift a lot more than I do - but I'd also say I barely recall ever seeing any of them doing any cardio training (and for that matter very little core training beyond lower back strength training, can't remember what its called - kind of like a dead-lift but keeping your legs locked in a slightly bent position).

I reckon (though have never tried I admit) that I'd easily drop most of them on a bike, just like I can't lift close to the amounts they can.

I'm interested in that rule of thumb as well. Do you mean squatting with 1.5 times bodyweight on the bar, or yourself + half your body weight? The thought of putting 95+ kg on the bar for a squat is rather scary.

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fustuarium | 9 years ago
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I think as a powerlifter who does a bit of riding I'll chip in as some of the comments seem pretty whacky to me. I normally keep quiet on this as weights and cycling seem a poisonous topic but here's my perspective from under the bar.

Rep and set choice is determined by the adaptation you are trying to achieve. You say 'strength' so it's low reps of around 3 to 5 (high force production with no endurance element) and moderate sets of 3-5 (giving enough stress to drive adaptation). So the fella at the gym sounds like he knows his stuff. Bonus!

Bodyweight might work for a bit but not long term. Heck, ANY stress makes a novice adapt. Some methods are just more effective than others. You need to progressively overload to drive an adaptation. That's the weight on the bar. If you are serious, each session up the weight. Every one. You should be able to do 5kg lower body and 2.5kg upper each session for a few months if you are a novice. If you don't do that, at least progress every session. And log it. Know what you are going to do in four weeks time and commit to it.

Exercise selection. As said, compound exercises. Twice a week is very little in lifting terms but it can be made to work. Think of a Heavy - Medium split. So perhaps (A) Squat, Deadlift, Bench (B) Squat (80-90% of Monday), Press, Chins\Rows. Or you could do another squat set or two on the Monday to make it the 'heavy\volume' session. Personally, unless you get coaching, I'd be very cautious of squats. Most technique for novices is horrific. Deadlift is easy to learn, but squatting well is more technical. Maybe a session with that gym coach? Don't put in some volume of deadlifts instead of squats as they're tough too recover from. Try to volume squat and deadlift in same session as lower back takes quite a while to recover between sessions.

Whether you gain weight of not is up to you and your diet. Its easier to get strong when you are running a calorie surplus based upon the right nutritional macros. Strength in and of itself doesn't make you heavy. Otherwise competitive weight classes would be won by the heaviest person in them.

The definition of a novice is someone who adapts from one session to the next, rather than and intermediate who is one week to the next, and elite where it is one cycle to the next. That said, you will feel mashed for the first month or so. Food and sleep are your friends here. DOMs, when using reps in the strength or power range, shouldn't be a long term issue. Just feeling dog tired and ground down will be what might happen. When that happens, take a light week (80% weight, with couple of sets), and then pick it up again.

A general rule of thumb for moving from being a novice is a squat and deadlift 1.5 times bodyweight. Should be easily achievable over the coming short days. Best of luck.

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J90 replied to fustuarium | 9 years ago
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fustuarium wrote:

Don't put in some volume of deadlifts instead of squats as they're tough too recover from. Try to volume squat and deadlift in same session as lower back takes quite a while to recover between sessions.

Good post fustuarium. The above couple of sentences didn't make sense to me though?

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notfastenough | 9 years ago
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Well initially I'm looking to be further up the group on long climbs, and taking longer turns on the front on the fast run home or on the chaingang. If I feel up to racing, then I'll work on explosive power in the spring.

@J90 - suppose I didn't research it really, my dad showed me how to use the gym/weights kit that he bought, but this was before the internet, and I was just getting fit for joining the forces.

Family routines etc mean that I'm in the gym anyway, so I'll make the most of it, and supplement with bodyweight exercises at home.

Thanks all.

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daddyELVIS | 9 years ago
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Agreed on the bodyweight exercises too - plus no gym fees to pay!

However, what is best for you depends on what you mean by "power". If you mean explosive power, then you may need to use weights - eg squats using a weight that allows 8 - 10 reps, slow down and 'explode' up. (BUT - poor form can result in injury and stiffness in other areas!). Combine this with a session on the bike on another day in the week doing sprints or full-gas hill repeats on a short incline, and you should see good gains in explosive power.

Or, are you looking for gains in your average power / weight ratio over longer durations on a ride - e.g. longer climbs, etc? If this is what you mean, then bodyweight exercises should be sufficient, as you will need to push out more reps...and your biggest initial improvement will come from gains in muscle stamina. I personally target this area with 'burpees' - I time how quickly I can complete 100 burpees, including rests, and each week I try to better my previous time.

But, the best training for riding a bike is riding a bike - so always tailor your gym training to the specific areas you are trying to improve on the bike, and then include one session per week on the bike that also targets that particular area - eg hill repeats, sprints, time trialling, etc.

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CXR94Di2 | 9 years ago
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At first you don't need weights, your own body weight will be sufficient. 3 or 4 basic compound exercises

squats 5-10 repetitions 5 sets

Push ups 10 reps 5 sets

Plank hold for 1 minute then repeat

Lunges 10 reps 5 sets per leg

That will keep you going for a few weeks. When you find it easy progress to using weights

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MuddyGoose | 9 years ago
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I find that when showering down, turning the shower down to cold and directing that at my legs helps prevent them from 'complaining' so much the following day. Like the ice bath therapy that top athletes use but without the facilities!

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J90 | 9 years ago
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You should know what compound exercises are if you used to lift! They've been around for decades. They're multi-joint movements which work several muscles or groups of muscles at the same time e.g. Squats, Deadlifts, etc. Google it and you'll see what the advantages are over isolation exercises, there's a lot.

Also, too many people think that if you lift weights for a couple of months you'll end up looking like a bodybuilder....no, it takes a lot more than that and for a good length of time. If you want to build muscle you have to have a calorie surplus, if you want to lose fat you need a calorie deficit. You can do compound exercises with a deficit but you won't put on a lot of mass at all, it will burn a lot of calories and is actually good cardio depending on the weight you use. There's a lot of people who despise running and lift instead, they're usually strong athletes.

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sergius | 9 years ago
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If you want to bulk up/increase strength:

- Eat tons
- Focus on specific muscle groups per session
- Warm up
- Sets to failure with heavy weights (i.e. you can't do more than 5-8 reps

if you want to tone up:

- Eat normally
- Warm up
- Sets with weights you can do at least 12 reps with, generally more sets of higher reps

For me I tend to fall somewhere between the two, I've no interest in bulking up, but nor do I need to tone up (last time I was checked I was ~7% body fat). My workouts tend to be a happy medium of heavier weights + high rep sets. I like "core" exercises a lot, so a lot of push-ups, pulls-ups etc. rather than just pushing weights.

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redmeat | 9 years ago
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I always thought you should be doing high reps, low(ish) weight.

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notfastenough | 9 years ago
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Ok, slight change in routine. My mum has kindly offered to babysit one evening a week which provides an extra gym session without being too close to Sunday morning rides. So I'm going to use that for a leg weights session. I'll have to supplement with further exercises at home.

One of the instructors in the gym was talking about 5 reps at a weight where I cannot manage a 6th rep. Wouldn't that result in gaining weight as well though? Any suggestions for reps/sets?

@J90 - sorry, what are compound exercises?

(I used to do loads of weight training as a teenager, but all the jargon has changed since then!)

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s_lim replied to notfastenough | 9 years ago
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notfastenough wrote:

One of the instructors in the gym was talking about 5 reps at a weight where I cannot manage a 6th rep. Wouldn't that result in gaining weight as well though? Any suggestions for reps/sets?

@J90 - sorry, what are compound exercises?

5 reps is part of maximal strength training, ideally looking to build up to a 1 rep max (the optimum weight you can lift at one time). Ideally doing 3-5 sets with 5 reps. This is good for endurance training too, as it doesn't work on bulking out your muscles.

Compound lifts: deadlifts, squats, benchpress, military press, aka the big 4.

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J90 | 9 years ago
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Stick to compound exercises if you do start going.

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CXR94Di2 | 9 years ago
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I am suffering with doms for the last two sessions I have done. I find a 20 mile eases the pain a little and I recover quicker

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unistriker | 9 years ago
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If you are training legs hard you will need at least 2 to 3 days to recover - if its your first weight lifting session for a while you are looking at a whole week.

There is nothing like that first leg session in the gym after a long break.

Personally i've gone hell to power to weight ratio over winter. Looking to increase pure leg strength now till the end of year. With any strength gains you'll get a bit more mass and weight so I wouldn't worry about keeping your weight down unless you are racing too.

After December Still hit the weights but rather than pure strength it will be more about number of reps and speed. To really get that explosive power.

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sergius | 9 years ago
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I do legs on Monday & Tuesday, followed by Core on Wednesday and upper body stuff Thursday & Friday. I never have a problem with my legs for the weekend (when I actually get to go on the bike).

Admittedly I've been training at this frequency for years so am pretty used to it...

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Martyn_K | 9 years ago
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To make any gains in strength you are going to have to suffer DOMS, so i would steer clear of doing a gym leg session the day before a club run.

I hit the legs on a Tuesday. Then from December onwards i train on a turbo on a Wednesday. Legs back to freshness by the weekend.

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