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Riding 2 abreast

Over the last two days, I have been out with my teenage kids cycling. Both are inexperienced at distance cycling, so I was breaking them in steadily by riding 20 miles for a gentle outing. I tend to ride either slightly back of them and further out into the road to offer protection (fatherly responsibility) or alongside.

On each day I have had multiple car drivers shouting abuse and pipping their horns. Why can't drivers just be a little patient and wait a few seconds for a gap so they can pass safely?

Before anyone starts mentioning the legalities of 2 abreast, I know the laws position and for those who don't, it is perfectly legal to do so.

I generally ride a third into the road when solo and haven't had anything like the same abuse, but add another rider, and irrational behaviour ensues!

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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34 comments

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IngloriousLou | 9 years ago
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Anyway, riding 2 abreast; it's ok almost all of the time. When it's not ok cars probably shouldn't be overtaking anyway.

Maybe we can start being nice to each other again now and move on?

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sihall34 | 9 years ago
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A couple of years ago I got so bored of explaining to people that riding 2 abreast was legal (and safer/better for drivers) I decided to write a blog post on it: http://ukcyclelaws.blogspot.co.uk/p/the-laws-according-to-highway-code.html

You can see from the comments though how many motorists then spouted the usual "road tax", red light jumpers, pavement cyclists etc. You can tell/show people all you like but if it's an inconvenient truth, people have a very hard time accepting it.

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bigshape | 9 years ago
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in mine, and i'm sure plenty of other peoples opinions, the only way to get everyone who drives to be aware of cyclists, is to make practical cycling under instruction a part of the driving test.

unfortunately it's been suggested many many times and has fallen on deaf ears.

until then we just have to accept that some drivers are dicks.

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oozaveared replied to bigshape | 9 years ago
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bigshape wrote:

in mine, and i'm sure plenty of other peoples opinions, the only way to get everyone who drives to be aware of cyclists, is to make practical cycling under instruction a part of the driving test.

unfortunately it's been suggested many many times and has fallen on deaf ears.

until then we just have to accept that some drivers are dicks.

cos someone will want to exempt genuinely disabled people and fair enough but then someone will claim they are being discriminated against because they are obese or asthmatic or can't cycle and wear a Burka and god forbid anyone fell off or had a heart attack. You'd need a whole new Department at the DVLA to deal with all the sick notes and other nonsense like rastafarians claiming they can't get a helmet over their wooly hat, muslims claiming that they aren't allowed to exercise during Ramadan or when they are fasting and a shed load of people claiming allergies to exercise, pollen, the cold, the heat, or that sweat made their makeup run or that their town was too hilly or that it was unfair because they lived on the coast and it was too windy. And all the rest of it.

I once had a bit of a rant at a teacher that cancelled a district sports day for about a dozen schools all due to compete at the Aldershot athletics stadium. The longest distance to be run was still only 75m. But the temperature soared to a sweltering 25C and she cancelled the whole thing due to a "heatwave".

it's not worth the candle. No-one except people who don't mind riding bikes would do it and it would end up in a permanent pay day for the lawyers ...again.

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bigshape replied to oozaveared | 9 years ago
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oozaveared wrote:
bigshape wrote:

in mine, and i'm sure plenty of other peoples opinions, the only way to get everyone who drives to be aware of cyclists, is to make practical cycling under instruction a part of the driving test.

unfortunately it's been suggested many many times and has fallen on deaf ears.

until then we just have to accept that some drivers are dicks.

cos someone will want to exempt genuinely disabled people and fair enough but then someone will claim they are being discriminated against because they are obese or asthmatic or can't cycle and wear a Burka and god forbid anyone fell off or had a heart attack. You'd need a whole new Department at the DVLA to deal with all the sick notes and other nonsense like rastafarians claiming they can't get a helmet over their wooly hat, muslims claiming that they aren't allowed to exercise during Ramadan or when they are fasting and a shed load of people claiming allergies to exercise, pollen, the cold, the heat, or that sweat made their makeup run or that their town was too hilly or that it was unfair because they lived on the coast and it was too windy. And all the rest of it.

I once had a bit of a rant at a teacher that cancelled a district sports day for about a dozen schools all due to compete at the Aldershot athletics stadium. The longest distance to be run was still only 75m. But the temperature soared to a sweltering 25C and she cancelled the whole thing due to a "heatwave".

it's not worth the candle. No-one except people who don't mind riding bikes would do it and it would end up in a permanent pay day for the lawyers ...again.

excuses, excuses...
if they didn't do it, they wouldn't get a driving license.
driving is a privilege, not a right.

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oozaveared replied to bigshape | 9 years ago
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bigshape wrote:
oozaveared wrote:
bigshape wrote:

in mine, and i'm sure plenty of other peoples opinions, the only way to get everyone who drives to be aware of cyclists, is to make practical cycling under instruction a part of the driving test.

unfortunately it's been suggested many many times and has fallen on deaf ears.

until then we just have to accept that some drivers are dicks.

cos someone will want to exempt genuinely disabled people and fair enough but then someone will claim they are being discriminated against because they are obese or asthmatic or can't cycle and wear a Burka and god forbid anyone fell off or had a heart attack. You'd need a whole new Department at the DVLA to deal with all the sick notes and other nonsense like rastafarians claiming they can't get a helmet over their wooly hat, muslims claiming that they aren't allowed to exercise during Ramadan or when they are fasting and a shed load of people claiming allergies to exercise, pollen, the cold, the heat, or that sweat made their makeup run or that their town was too hilly or that it was unfair because they lived on the coast and it was too windy. And all the rest of it.

I once had a bit of a rant at a teacher that cancelled a district sports day for about a dozen schools all due to compete at the Aldershot athletics stadium. The longest distance to be run was still only 75m. But the temperature soared to a sweltering 25C and she cancelled the whole thing due to a "heatwave".

it's not worth the candle. No-one except people who don't mind riding bikes would do it and it would end up in a permanent pay day for the lawyers ...again.

excuses, excuses...
if they didn't do it, they wouldn't get a driving license.
driving is a privilege, not a right.

Not quite sure why the need for that tone. but to respond in kind ....

Technically a driving licence is a licence it's not a right or a privilege. It being available to anyone that satisfies the criteria pertaining.

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oozaveared | 9 years ago
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It's mainly because most drivers don't actually know their Highway code. It really is that simple. Numerous discussions at work, in the pub and at dinner parties demonstrated that most motorists don't know the Highway Code especially the bits about cycling. But worse than that they think they do. That's a very odd phenomenon. Usually people not knowing say tax regulations (we all pay tax after all) just admit that they don't know stuff they don't know or are unsure of. So it's a pretend a bluff so no-one thinks they aren't a good driver. And because almost none of them know it sufficiently there is a weird tendency to just make up regulations and then say "it's in the Highway Code" afterwards. And not very oddly, when making up their own rules they always seem to justify their own driving practices.

The TRL or someone ought to do a study of this. I'd be keen to know what level of knowledge there actually is and why people who must know they don't know all the regulations because they must know that they never ever read them, think it's ok to make them up.

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mrmo replied to oozaveared | 9 years ago
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oozaveared wrote:

It's mainly because most drivers don't actually know their Highway code. It really is that simple. Numerous discussions at work, in the pub and at dinner parties demonstrated that most motorists don't know the Highway Code especially the bits about cycling. But worse than that they think they do. That's a very odd phenomenon.

My suspicion, you are meant to know, you are tested when you get a licence, but a bit like most peoples GCSEs you do enough to pass the exam and then promptly forget EVERYTHING.. but because you need to know you then go on to deny that you have forgotten everything by coming out with gibberish.

Which then comes back to why not re-read if you are in doubt, for instance a local roundabout I was convinced I was wrong because I was using a different lane to amost everyone else.

But no, after checking it seems almost everyone else is wrong and I am right!!

But most people I guess are too busy, too important, too "right" to check and to update their knowledge. How many jobs demand CPDs or retests and yet you pass a driving test and that is it until your 70!

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IngloriousLou | 9 years ago
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I was riding with a mate today, 2 abreast doing about 20 on a wide, straight, flat b road, no real traffic.

We're overtaken by a young looking (20s) guy giving us horn and shouting through the window. I gave him a cheerful wave back, this was clearly a mistake as he decided to stop and reverse towards us.

I moved out of his way as he drew alongside me (I'm now stationary on the 'wrong' side of the road) we exchanged a glance before he wheelspins his way down the road and, presumably, to happiness.

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mrmo replied to IngloriousLou | 9 years ago
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IngloriousLou wrote:

I was riding with a mate today, 2 abreast doing about 20 on a wide, straight, flat b road, no real traffic.

We're overtaken by a young looking (20s) guy giving us horn and shouting through the window. I gave him a cheerful wave back, this was clearly a mistake as he decided to stop and reverse towards us.

I moved out of his way as he drew alongside me (I'm now stationary on the 'wrong' side of the road) we exchanged a glance before he wheelspins his way down the road and, presumably, to happiness.

Note down his reg number give it to the police. Depends on the force and the day, tides, sun etc. You might find that some little mummies boy now has to explain to his parents why there is a police officer at their door. If he has done it once he will do it again.

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IngloriousLou replied to mrmo | 9 years ago
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mrmo wrote:

Note down his reg number give it to the police. Depends on the force and the day, tides, sun etc. You might find that some little mummies boy now has to explain to his parents why there is a police officer at their door. If he has done it once he will do it again.

Frustratingly, I didn't get it.

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Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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As is the case with most cyclists I am also a motorist and like most sane drivers I have no problem with accommodating groups of cyclists as long as they give due consideration to the 3/4 ton of steel that is my main form of transport. This weekend whilst driving through what is predominately rural Northern Ireland I happened upon a peloton of approximately 20 cyclists, on approaching the village of Moira traffic reduced to a crawl and the peloton caught up. I was quite surprised to see pretty much all of the slow moving traffic move to the right hand side of the lane allowing the cyclists room to travel in pairs up the hill that the village is built on. This rare instance of motorist co operation was poorly repaid the congestion eased and traffic flow returned only to slow down again, the peloton had found a gap in the traffic and was now travelling 3 and 4 abreast completely blocking the lane this continued for the best part of two miles in this time only two cars were able to pass. Now drivers in Northern Ireland are less inclined to beep horns and shout abuse but the sense of frustration is the same and some less patient drivers will take risks when in a rush which of course leads to accidents. Inconsiderate behaviour by some cyclists tarnishes all of us you may have what you believe to be a justified reason for interfering with the flow of traffic but unless you wear a placard explaining your actions you will be perceived as arrogant or bloody minded. Education must come from within maybe cycling clubs should initiate a competency test for members taking part in group rides, and replica team lycra should not be sold to grossly overweight middle-aged men particularly where they can be seen by children or members of the opposite sex.

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HalfWheeler replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Sorry Tiffin15 but what has any of that to do with the OP?

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Tiffin15 replied to HalfWheeler | 9 years ago
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Agreed I have wandered from his original point and for that I apologise.

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HalfWheeler replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

Agreed I have wandered from his original point and for that I apologise.

Hijacking this thread to vent your spleen about being held up by a bunch of cyclists makes as much sense as hijacking a thread about the defecit, or Syria, or George Clooney's wedding. Why this thread?

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HalfWheeler replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

I have no problem with accommodating groups of cyclists as long as they give due consideration to the 3/4 ton of steel that is my main form of transport

Seen as you're in control of the said 3/4 ton of steel vehicle that poses the danger then perhaps you should be the one giving due consideration.

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Tiffin15 replied to HalfWheeler | 9 years ago
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I make a point of giving consideration there's not much worse than the side draft of being buzzed by a white van, the point I'm making is consideration should be shown by both parties.

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notfastenough replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

I make a point of giving consideration there's not much worse than the side draft of being buzzed by a white van, the point I'm making is consideration should be shown by both parties.

No-one's arguing about that. I've been taken to task by drivers who think that I'm somehow responsible because they have been aggrieved by another cyclist that I don't know in any way. Your comment sounds an awful lot like that. Or are you saying that the original poster was not showing 'due consideration' to the drivers behind by deigning to protect his kids?

I tell you what, when I'm in control of the 1-ton-plus vehicle, I will (and do) show due consideration. When I'm on the bike, I will (and do) ride defensively. It isn't my job to get out of drivers' way like some obedient serf.

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Tiffin15 replied to notfastenough | 9 years ago
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Maybe you should avoid thinking of yourself as a victim, the majority of "other" road users do show consideration it the minority that don't, the same can be said of cyclists. The point remains this is a two way street complaining without solution resolves nothing. The gentleman who started the thread was quite rightly protecting his children but if protection is required then maybe a quieter road might be a better option....cue uproar starting with "why should I..............

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notfastenough replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

The gentleman who started the thread was quite rightly protecting his children but if protection is required then maybe a quieter road might be a better option....cue uproar starting with "why should I..............

Sorry but this blatantly calls you out as someone who doesn't ride a bike much. Close passes (which the OP was guarding against) happen regardless of the road width or traffic conditions.

Tiffin15 wrote:

I have wandered slightly from the point I believe he was making but many of the responses here fail to see the issue I was raising, finger pointing or militant defence of a position will achieve nothing.

No, you have failed to see the point everyone else is making. Try posting the same comment on a politics story on Sky News, it's about as relevant.

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HalfWheeler replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

This weekend whilst driving through what is predominately rural Northern Ireland I happened upon a peloton of approximately 20 cyclists, on approaching the village of Moira traffic reduced to a crawl and the peloton caught up. I was quite surprised to see pretty much all of the slow moving traffic move to the right hand side of the lane allowing the cyclists room to travel in pairs up the hill that the village is built on

Would you prefer if the bunch were riding single file? A group of cyclists that was 60ft long is now 120ft long. Like an artic lorry it's now longer and harder to pass. But that's if you give them the legal requirement of a car breadth passing distance. You could, of course, just buzz them with two feet to spare.

You would never do that though, eh?

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Tiffin15 replied to HalfWheeler | 9 years ago
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Of course I would give them the same space I would give a car, the point I attempted to make was the two abreast rule is generally understood by the majority of motorists, taking up the whole lane is not. The attitude displayed here by many respondents is disappointing, I cycle regularly and suffer the same issues as any other cyclist, adopting an I am right therefore you are wrong attitude pretty much gives credence to the image that many drivers have of cyclists. The implication was that the peloton should have remained two abreast until the traffic that had backed up in the village passed I didn't mention single file.

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oozaveared replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

As is the case with most cyclists I am also a motorist and like most sane drivers I have no problem with accommodating groups of cyclists as long as they give due consideration to the 3/4 ton of steel that is my main form of transport. This weekend whilst driving through what is predominately rural Northern Ireland I happened upon a peloton of approximately 20 cyclists, on approaching the village of Moira traffic reduced to a crawl and the peloton caught up. I was quite surprised to see pretty much all of the slow moving traffic move to the right hand side of the lane allowing the cyclists room to travel in pairs up the hill that the village is built on. This rare instance of motorist co operation was poorly repaid the congestion eased and traffic flow returned only to slow down again, the peloton had found a gap in the traffic and was now travelling 3 and 4 abreast completely blocking the lane this continued for the best part of two miles in this time only two cars were able to pass. Now drivers in Northern Ireland are less inclined to beep horns and shout abuse but the sense of frustration is the same and some less patient drivers will take risks when in a rush which of course leads to accidents. Inconsiderate behaviour by some cyclists tarnishes all of us you may have what you believe to be a justified reason for interfering with the flow of traffic but unless you wear a placard explaining your actions you will be perceived as arrogant or bloody minded. Education must come from within maybe cycling clubs should initiate a competency test for members taking part in group rides, and replica team lycra should not be sold to grossly overweight middle-aged men particularly where they can be seen by children or members of the opposite sex.

If these were club cyclists and they were holding the lane it was almost certainly for a good reason you must have forgotten to tell us or maybe didn't understand yourself. That's advanced cycling and maybe it's you that needs a competency test.

Do remember that almost all adult cyclists are also car drivers so they are by definition more experienced road users than the average motorists they are quite often keeping safe by their actions.

As for your claim that all the motorists uniformly yielded.... well the BS detector went into overdrive on that one.

Why are you commenting on here anyway? Is this a Troll thing?

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Tiffin15 replied to oozaveared | 9 years ago
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I think I said pretty much all and expressed my "surprise". Not trolling but expressing the opinion that its give an take on our roads.

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glynr36 replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

I think I said pretty much all and expressed my "surprise". Not trolling but expressing the opinion that its give an take on our roads.

I think your final comment shows you are trolling.

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Tiffin15 replied to glynr36 | 9 years ago
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Because I believe in give and take I am a Troll? a Troll would probably ask how many times have you compromised road safety in pursuit of a Strava time? but I'm not so I won't.

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HalfWheeler replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

Because I believe in give and take I am a Troll?

Not quite. And I think you know that yourself. It's because you decided to use this opportunity to go off on a wild tangent, apropos of nothing.

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sihall34 replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

I think I said pretty much all and expressed my "surprise". Not trolling but expressing the opinion that its give an take on our roads.

The OP was stating they were riding legally and not doing anything wrong but getting abuse, probably down to motorists' ignorance, I'm not sure what some supposed inconsiderate cyclists you encountered have to do with it so I guess people may wonder what the actual link between your post and the original one is.

Do you think the OP may be one of those cyclists holding up the traffic? If not, I suspect you'll have more luck trying to contact them and asking them to limit their riding to 2 abreast rather than posting that in response, or would you like the OP to try and contact the cycling club as presumably all cyclists are responsible for all other cyclists' behaviour?

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Tiffin15 replied to sihall34 | 9 years ago
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There is no excuse for abuse and I have wandered slightly from the point I believe he was making but many of the responses here fail to see the issue I was raising, finger pointing or militant defence of a position will achieve nothing. The frustrations that drivers regularly vent originate because they fail to see any justification in a cyclist delaying their journey. Likewise a group of cyclists may see dominating the road between traffic islands is the safest option but this is missed by other road users, do either see the road in the same way as the other? Education is the only solution as one respondent pointed out drivers should receive more training on the needs of cyclist but equally cyclists should themselves have some sort HSE responsibility when travelling in a peloton. Of course there are many arguments against this point of view but lets face it the status quo is failing and despite the action of a few councils in the current environment roads are not likely to improve for the ever increasing amount of people taking to two wheels. Sometime ago I believe on this site there was a thread on horses I seem to remember a lack of tolerance towards them! At least nobody has defended the right of fat men to wear lycra

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to Tiffin15 | 9 years ago
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Tiffin15 wrote:

headache-inducing wall-of-text deleted

Refusing to use paragraph-breaks is the forum equivalent of riding 10 abreast.

Is your 'return' key broken?

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