Autumn Classics

by Joelsim   July 30, 2014  

ACL?

WTF?

So used to picking teams for a stage race, I swear I have absolutely no idea how to do this one.

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As you seem to focus on the word classics, whether they are true classics based on the word classics maybe up for debate, but in the instance of Autumn classics in a game scenario it sounds better/more professional than Autumn one day races, no?

On the budget it suggested 129 so think yourself lucky.

The races haven't changed an awful lot, they are grouped differently as its easier to group the 6 races, whereas we had individual races and a double header for these last year. And only one race differs with the addition of Vattenfall.

You can make a case to add/remove many races, in this instance we just stuck to the WT races, as simple as that.

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3993 posts]
1st August 2014 - 19:24

92 Likes

Twybaydos wrote:
Guys - Simon Gerrans is definitely in the Orica team for San Sebastian tomorrow but greyed out in the game. I know I can pick outside of highlighted riders, but the last thing we want is people throwing their tenners out the pram because they couldn't be arsed to look at the startlist online. Leigh Howard is out.

Give us chance, they've only released the full startlist today, I updated last night and ive only just got in from work. I will do another update in the next half hour.

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3993 posts]
1st August 2014 - 19:29

94 Likes

enrique wrote:
...I think we should give a nod to the fact that Paris-Tours and Milano-Torino are considered 'Classics' and have them included... They're important and prestigious and the start lists shouldn't be that hard to get... Why are they being excluded?...

I just get nostalgic with the word 'Classics'. It invokes memories of a particular kind of race. It means something, it refers to a particular set of races... I just wonder why we don't include those romantic, historic races... Is it too much trouble at the end of the year? I think they're more beautiful than World Tour races and they would fit in nicely in the competition... Especially one named 'Autumn Classics'... Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about what you name the competition, I just think they would be pretty cool races to run in the competition... I'm not complaining... Big Grin No, really Big Grin God knows I'm tired of all this clicking and selecting riders that won't honor my request to do well in a race... I just wonder why such beautiful, historic races that are 'Classics' to many folks don't get the nod of approval to be selected for this competition...

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
2nd August 2014 - 15:32

92 Likes

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... On the budget it suggested 129...
What are the parameters of the formula you guys are using?... Did Dave come up with the formula?... Thinking Does it use the size of the field?... The average value of the entire field? The distribution of those values?... It's kind of weird to see you write 'it' suggested a particular number... The formula establishes a relationship between the values which, obviously, the person who created the formula predetermined a base value for, just like someone determined the highest value a rider should have in the game is 40.0 credits and the lowest value should be 3.0 credits, the formula you are using has established a certain relationship between how it will solve for what the formula creator 'thinks' the budget value should be, based on the criteria the formula creator finds relevant and inserts into the formula itself... Thinking It'd be nice to see that formula, I have to believe it's fairly simple and probably uses two or three variables, maybe just the size of the field and the average value of the riders in the field and some sort of relationship that sets these values to be around 150 for a certain average rider value, can you share it?... Thinking

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
2nd August 2014 - 15:45

88 Likes

enrique wrote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... On the budget it suggested 129...
What are the parameters of the formula you guys are using?... Did Dave come up with the formula?... Thinking Does it use the size of the field?... The average value of the entire field? The distribution of those values?... It's kind of weird to see you write 'it' suggested a particular number... The formula establishes a relationship between the values which, obviously, the person who created the formula predetermined a base value for, just like someone determined the highest value a rider should have in the game is 40.0 credits and the lowest value should be 3.0 credits, the formula you are using has established a certain relationship between how it will solve for what the formula creator 'thinks' the budget value should be, based on the criteria the formula creator finds relevant and inserts into the formula itself... Thinking It'd be nice to see that formula, I have to believe it's fairly simple and probably uses two or three variables, maybe just the size of the field and the average value of the riders in the field and some sort of relationship that sets these values to be around 150 for a certain average rider value, can you share it?... Thinking

I don't know any details about the formula.

Alls I can say with these races is took into account all riders on all the rosters for the teams in todays race, and teams that are competing in other races within the competition (that being done once th riders values for all those teams had been set based on all the up coming stages being lumpy) Therefore I upped the budget as not all riders would be riding, and thus there may be more expensive riders racing, or there may not. Todays budget looked about right.

Oh also the formula doesn't take into account 3 credit riders, so actually provides you with more budget than if it did include those riders.

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3993 posts]
2nd August 2014 - 17:24

91 Likes

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... I don't know any details about the formula.... I upped the budget... and thus... Todays budget looked about right... the formula doesn't take into account 3 credit riders, so actually provides you with more budget than if it did include those riders.
Out of curiousity... Thinking How do you run the formula? Is it part of the game or is it in an Excel spreadsheet outside of it? Do you put all the riders in the competition into the database and then tell it to suggest a budget based on those riders and then you decide whether to 'up' it or not?... Do you then enter the number you think is 'fair' into the game?... Thinking Thanks for responding... The way the game is run is really interesting to me...

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
2nd August 2014 - 19:11

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I just select the teams and then set the rider values. Once they are set I just ask it to recommend the budget, it does its thing and gives me a number. Its in the game engine.

If I think the number is acceptable I can put that in as the budget, or change it if we wish. In this instance due to the volume of riders it was always going to suggest lower than if we had the startlists for all 6 races, and no difference of teams from race to race, so I upped it slightly

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3993 posts]
2nd August 2014 - 19:18

92 Likes

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... Its in the game engine....
Dave is one smart guy... Applause Thanks, TER... Dave, how does the algorithm for the budget value work?... Thinking No astrophysics, please... Smile

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
2nd August 2014 - 20:36

92 Likes

Ghedebrav wrote:
... I do think there's a case for both Paris-Tours and Milano-Torino...
I know it's not going to happen, but, just in case, here's the Cyclingnews calendar for October for these races and it seems like Milano-Torino and the Giro del Piemonte don't conflict with anythng on the calendar right now... And Paris Tours, well, it does conflict with the Tour of Beijing, but, wouldn't it be nice to run them?... Big Grin

Fall Classics.png

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
2nd August 2014 - 22:24

91 Likes

enrique wrote:
I know it's not going to happen

now would be a good time to stop going on about it, in that case.

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7500 posts]
18th August 2014 - 17:58

2 Likes

Ghedebrav wrote:
... I do think there's a case for both Paris-Tours and Milano-Torino...
enrique wrote:
I know it's not going to happen, but... it seems like Milano-Torino and the Giro del Piemonte don't conflict with anythng on the calendar... Paris Tours... does conflict with the Tour of Beijing, but...

Damn, Dave, I'll plead! Smile Can we have Milano-Torino and the Giro del Piemonte on the schedule, please?... And (!) if you think about it, the Tour of Beijing and Paris Tours are on different time zones (!) So they wouldn't conflict timewise(!) Big Grin

.

Dave Atkinson wrote:
...And no, you didn't get either Paris-Tours or Milan-Torino last year.

.
Damn, Dave, I'm a little confused, too, 'cause you said we didn't have Paris Tours or Milan-Torino last year but there's this thread:

http://road.cc/content/forum/96303-paris-tours

and this one:

http://road.cc/content/forum/95475-autumn-classic-milano-torino

which seem to indicate we did (!) have both races last year?... Am I mistaken?... Thinking

Fall Classics.png

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
18th August 2014 - 18:14

92 Likes

Enrique, we REALLY REALLY REALLY don't need your input on the game.

If you want certain rules, races, budgets.....etc. Please, by all means, go run your own game on your own site.

Otherwise, PLEASE be quiet and let us get on with it

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [9038 posts]
18th August 2014 - 20:07

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Gkam84 wrote:
Enrique, [I] REALLY REALLY REALLY...
... need to be more patient and professional...

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
18th August 2014 - 20:18

3 Likes

I'm pretty sure that WE as the people who have run the game has been more the patient with you, you are now getting on our tits and I personally would put you on permanent mute status and then every subsequent account you created after that.

As for professional, that went out the window the minute you were told that we weren't going to change things to suit you, yet you kept on posting about it. Give it up, things are not going to change and I would quite happily give you some tips to setting up your own website and game.

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [9038 posts]
18th August 2014 - 20:29

95 Likes

Gkam84 wrote:
Enrique, [I] REALLY REALLY REALLY...
... need to learn to respond to people with more empathy and in so doing seem less impulsive, less immature, less irresponsible and less irritable, but it's hard for me because I'm an emotional guy that lets his frustrations be vented unto people and things he finds annoying and irritating with a force that I find hard to gauge and whose effects on how the organization is viewed by my actions hardly comes into consciousness...'

.
If that is what you meant, then I accept your explanation and will try to be more patient with you.

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
18th August 2014 - 20:56

2 Likes

Just to let you all know, the startlist ive put in for Vattenfall is provisional, and I know it is wrong...... but until I have some more official information from teams or the race im leaving it as that startlsit

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3993 posts]
18th August 2014 - 22:33

1 Like

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Just to let you all know, the startlist ive put in for Vattenfall is provisional...
Thank you! Smile Is there any way you could activate the feature where we can select riders that are not on the start list, even if they appear 'grayed-out' so we can see their values, too?...

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
18th August 2014 - 22:47

1 Like

enrique wrote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Just to let you all know, the startlist ive put in for Vattenfall is provisional...
Thank you! Smile Is there any way you could activate the feature where we can select riders that are not on the start list, even if they appear 'grayed-out' so we can see their values, too?...

You already can select them and see their values....check the drop downs available on the pick team screen

posted by cherrypicked [172 posts]
18th August 2014 - 22:51

1 Like

cherrypicked wrote:
You already can select them and see their values...
Under 'Filter' I can only see options for riders 'In startlist' and 'Just popular riders'...

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
18th August 2014 - 23:01

1 Like

How odd. I was using 'all riders' Sunday night to set up my USA team

posted by cherrypicked [172 posts]
19th August 2014 - 5:10

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cherrypicked wrote:
...I was using 'all riders' Sunday night to set up my USA team
Maybe it's something that has to be activated individually competition by competition...

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
19th August 2014 - 12:46

1 Like

the option disappears when a competition starts, so you can't select non-participating riders. autumn classics is already open so it's gone. admittedly that doesn't work as well with a competition of separate races. one for the task list.

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7500 posts]
19th August 2014 - 12:57

93 Likes

Vattenfall's own provisional list has Sep Vanmarcke riding for Belkin, but he's not in the list of available riders. PCS, Cycling Fever and his own website say he's riding too... Big Grin

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posted by Him Up North [238 posts]
19th August 2014 - 16:35

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Dave Atkinson wrote:
the option disappears when a competition starts, so you can't select non-participating riders. autumn classics is already open so it's gone. admittedly that doesn't work as well with a competition of separate races. one for the task list.

Thanks Dave. That all makes sense

posted by cherrypicked [172 posts]
20th August 2014 - 10:05

86 Likes

Hi guys, will there be another startlist update today? Don't really want to wait til tomorrow morning to finalise my team in case I oversleep... Cav just added, and some guys (including Astana) that are riding the vuelta. Trek I think needs updating too. Cheers.

chrisdstripes's picture

posted by chrisdstripes [1648 posts]
23rd August 2014 - 9:55

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chrisdstripes wrote:
Hi guys, will there be another startlist update today? Don't really want to wait til tomorrow morning to finalise my team in case I oversleep... Cav just added, and some guys (including Astana) that are riding the vuelta. Trek I think needs updating too. Cheers.

Yes there will be, but I still don't have any official startlist

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3993 posts]
23rd August 2014 - 10:02

69 Likes

Vattenfall: the one Autumn Classic where I take GVA out of my lineup?

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posted by Dux89 [115 posts]
23rd August 2014 - 16:10

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
...I still don't have any official startlist
Damn, this outfit is fine! Smile You may have seen it already and maybe you already have the startlist, but, as always, good old reliable PCS has theirs up with all teams confirmed...

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Vattenfall_Cyclassics_2014-Startlist Aren't they beautiful? Big Grin

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posted by enrique [1795 posts]
23rd August 2014 - 17:49

65 Likes

enrique wrote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
...I still don't have any official startlist
Damn, this outfit is fine! Smile You may have seen it already and maybe you already have the startlist, but, as always, good old reliable PCS has theirs up with all teams confirmed...

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Vattenfall_Cyclassics_2014-Startlist Aren't they beautiful? Big Grin

I have them cheers, there was only a couple of changes from what I had this morning

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3993 posts]
23rd August 2014 - 19:02

66 Likes

Provisional startlist is up, just missing the Bretagne and Wanty teams, but hoping to load them into the game tomorrow

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3993 posts]
28th August 2014 - 20:50

26 Likes