Tour de Suisse Stage 5

by enrique   June 18, 2014  

Goga Ruiz-Sandoval ‏@BiciGoga Los 3 escapados Marycz (CCC) Veuchelen (WGG) y Armée (LTB) con 56km por cumplir, su ventaja en 2:36" #TdSuisse pic.twitter.com/DNUPkRiLYH

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Well taken tumble/forward roll from Cav, collarbone saving! Applause

'Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you'

livestrongnick's picture

posted by livestrongnick [1699 posts]
18th June 2014 - 15:59

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Damn, not a great result.

Where was Swift, Coquard and Lobato???

posted by Joelsim [956 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:08

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Lobato came 12th

Swift and Coquard nowhere

Only non scorers for me today were Swift and Breen, giving me 144 points I believe

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:32

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1,4,7,18 +Martin

'Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you'

livestrongnick's picture

posted by livestrongnick [1699 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:41

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I still don't really get why we're not scoring the points jersey. I've heard all the arguments about it only rewarding the finish line etc because there's no intermediate sprints but we score eg the TdF points jersey and Giro points jersey and, realistically, the points available at the intermediates in those, compared to the finish line points, make fuck all difference to the overall jersey, so we're effectively rewarding the finish line points there too.

I don't intend to complain here, I'm just puzzled as to why.

posted by simon F [978 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:42

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PCS must be the fastest on the planet getting results posted... Smile Here we go...

PV 1.png

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posted by enrique [1515 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:43

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enrique wrote:
PCS must be the fastest on the planet getting results posted... Smile Here we go...

Or not, id seen them on the official site 5 mins before PCS updated

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:45

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simon F wrote:
I still don't really get why we're not scoring the points jersey...
I don't get it myself... I hate to think that it's just Gkam posturing and taking a stance that reflects his stubborn attitude about how the game points should be awarded... It makes no sense to me... The 'Points'jersey is a prestgious jersey to wear and earn during a Tour or any other race... Why not score it?... Thinking

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1515 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:47

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simon F wrote:
I still don't really get why we're not scoring the points jersey. I've heard all the arguments about it only rewarding the finish line etc because there's no intermediate sprints but we score eg the TdF points jersey and Giro points jersey and, realistically, the points available at the intermediates in those, compared to the finish line points, make fuck all difference to the overall jersey, so we're effectively rewarding the finish line points there too.

I don't intend to complain here, I'm just puzzled as to why.

I do not know the answer as to why, had there been a sprints jersey that would have been scored is all I can say. In a race like this, this week, I don't think not scoring has made much difference, however had the last two stages come as say 3 and 4, then it would have made a difference, as you may have kept modolo for them had he being getting 4 points and relatively cheap, which is why went Thurau after stage 1

Also TDF is diff, as the IM sprint has 15 points for the winner, and as that goes to the overall jersey, the the IM's are highly contested when only a couple of riders are in the break

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:50

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enrique wrote:
simon F wrote:
I still don't really get why we're not scoring the points jersey...
I don't get it myself... I hate to think that it's just Gkam posturing and taking a stance that reflects his stubborn attitude about how the game points should be awarded... It makes no sense to me... The 'Points'jersey is a prestgious jersey to wear and earn during a Tour or any other race... Why not score it?... Thinking

Don't think he wanted to confuse matters after how late it was found out that there would be no sprints jersey, by then switching to the points jeresy

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:52

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... id seen them on the official site 5 mins before PCS updated
Well, I guess it makes sense that the official site be the first to upload that content... But I still think PCS is fantastic... they're extremely accessible, I love their design and I love how you don't have to go searching on each race website to see results... I think they do a damn fine, even outstanding (!) job, unequalled by any other results provider in professional cycling... I'm amazed... In particular with the design and ease of use of the site... Not quite as fluid and beautiful as the Road.cc game layout, but, wow...

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1515 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:53

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enrique wrote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... id seen them on the official site 5 mins before PCS updated
Well, I guess it makes sense that the official site be the first to upload that content... But I still think PCS is fantastic... they're extremely accessible, I love their design and I love how you don't have to go searching on each race website to see results... I think they do a damn fine, even outstanding (!) job, unequalled by any other results provider in professional cycling... I'm amazed... In particular with the design and ease of use of the site... Not quite as fluid and beautiful as the Road.cc game layout, but, wow...

I was just winding you up mate, PCS are pretty speedy, bu as you say they would on the official site first

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:57

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Don't think he wanted to confuse matters after how late it was found out that there would be no sprints jersey, by then switching to the points jeresy
I just think it would have been a very reasonable alternative to award the Points jersey points, an alternative that the majority of the players would have been content and even happy (!) to accept rather than no (!) points awarded at all for such a prestigious classification... The issue was (!) identified before (!) the 'Sprint' stages... And I have to admit I felt like it was more Gkam taking a stand rather than avoiding confusion... I may be wrong, though... Thinking

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posted by enrique [1515 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:58

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enrique wrote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Don't think he wanted to confuse matters after how late it was found out that there would be no sprints jersey, by then switching to the points jeresy
I just think it would have been a very reasonable alternative to award the Points jersey points, an alternative that the majority of the players would have been content and even happy (!) to accept rather than no (!) points awarded at all for such a prestigious classification... The issue was (!) identified before (!) the 'Sprint' stages... I may be wrong, though... Thinking

Agree had it not been for the fact that the purist window had already been closed once it was found out no sprints jersey was present

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
18th June 2014 - 16:58

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... had it not been for the fact that the purist window had already been closed...
Well, what do I know?... Thinking But I honestly think people care more about the consistency of the game and having a classification awarded, and getting more points on their Standard teams, than your statement about the Purist teams, which may be undeniable, but I honestly think people are more peeved about such a dramatic change in the game in not having the classification honored rather than annoyed their Purist teams were formed with the "Sprint' jersey rather that "Points' jersey in mind... But what do I know? I may be wrong, but I think people would have responded more kindly to having the 'Points' points be awarded than the classification being ignored altogether... And I still can't shake the feeling that more than your explanation about the Purist team consideration it was more Gkam wanting it 'his' way... I may be wrong, of course... He just seems rather stubborn at times... Not to say I'm not (!) Smile

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posted by enrique [1515 posts]
18th June 2014 - 17:25

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:

Also TDF is diff, as the IM sprint has 15 points for the winner, and as that goes to the overall jersey, the the IM's are highly contested when only a couple of riders are in the break


Good point, I'd forgotten the TdF rule change but that's fairly recent. Prior to that, the sprints scored lowly but still counted towards the jersey (remember Thor and Cav battling for 3 pts at a time in mountain stage intermediates a few years ago?).

It has only been since last years Tour de Suisse (I think) that this confusion has arisen every time between sprints and points jerseys. Before that, it was always the points jersey we scored. I'd just like to see some consistency in it, and in stage deadlines (my personal bugbear).

posted by simon F [978 posts]
18th June 2014 - 17:26

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I am not getting into this again. I took out the sprint jersey because there was not one this year.

I cannot just chop and change what is being scored after it has been declared, so I removed the sprints., there are no pleasing some people, so I am not going to try to, I am simply going to do my work in the game end of. I'm not getting into discussions on the forum, because it just goes round in circles all the time and there are digs at me in every thread.

Dave had a word with me about not being very professional the other day, which I think was fair enough, I had an attitude with a few of you. I am sick of others thinking they know the game and how it works better than those of us running it.

If for any reason, you have a problem with me personally, take it up with me, my contact details are out there.

If you have a problem with the game or how it is being run, I urge you to take that up with Dave. I will not be entering discussions on that front.

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8686 posts]
18th June 2014 - 17:28

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
enrique wrote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Don't think he wanted to confuse matters after how late it was found out that there would be no sprints jersey, by then switching to the points jeresy
I just think it would have been a very reasonable alternative to award the Points jersey points, an alternative that the majority of the players would have been content and even happy (!) to accept rather than no (!) points awarded at all for such a prestigious classification... The issue was (!) identified before (!) the 'Sprint' stages... I may be wrong, though... Thinking

Agree had it not been for the fact that the purist window had already been closed once it was found out no sprints jersey was present


That's also a good point but pretty much every race has a points jersey, even if it doesn't have an intermediate sprints jersey, so maybe that's what we should return to scoring.

posted by simon F [978 posts]
18th June 2014 - 17:28

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Gkam84 wrote:
... there are no pleasing some people...
Well, who were you trying to please by not (!) considering, even adamantly refusing (!) to consider scoring the 'Points' jersey? Thinking For the life of me I saw no one else being supportive of that decision... Thinking
.

Gkam84 wrote:
... there are digs at me in every thread...
Ah, just take in stride. It comes with the job... Thinking And with a whole lot of inane posting and stubborness... Thinking Hmmm... I think I can relate to that (!)... Thinking

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Gkam84 wrote:
Dave had a word with me about not being very professional the other day...
And you bothered writing this after that (!) ? Applause

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Gkam84 wrote:
I had an attitude with a few of you...
I'm kind of glad you never had one with me! Thinking

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Gkam84 wrote:
I am sick of others thinking they know the game and how it works better than those of us running it...
Ah, just take in stride... It's healthy to not agree with others all the time...

.

Gkam84 wrote:
If for any reason, you have a problem with me personally, take it up with me, my contact details are out there...
I don't have a problem with you, but can I call you later tonight?... Love Struck

.

Gkam84 wrote:
If you have a problem with the game or how it is being run, I urge you to take that up with Dave. I will not be entering discussions on that front.
Good! Smile Just kidding, G! Smile

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1515 posts]
18th June 2014 - 17:58

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simon F wrote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
enrique wrote:
TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Don't think he wanted to confuse matters after how late it was found out that there would be no sprints jersey, by then switching to the points jeresy
I just think it would have been a very reasonable alternative to award the Points jersey points, an alternative that the majority of the players would have been content and even happy (!) to accept rather than no (!) points awarded at all for such a prestigious classification... The issue was (!) identified before (!) the 'Sprint' stages... I may be wrong, though... Thinking

Agree had it not been for the fact that the purist window had already been closed once it was found out no sprints jersey was present


That's also a good point but pretty much every race has a points jersey, even if it doesn't have an intermediate sprints jersey, so maybe that's what we should return to scoring.

Its never an issue when the sprints points come under the points jersey, which is the case in most races. In this case alone it was stated that the sprints jersey would be scored, it was then found out that it was not a jersey this year after deadlines had closed, thus no points. For this race individually I think the correct action was taken based on what was intended to be scored. No what 'should' have been scored in the first instance is a separate matter, and should maybe be set one way or another, as you say all races seem to have a points jersey, and odd ones have a sprint jersey separate.

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
18th June 2014 - 22:32

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Its never an issue when the sprints points come under the points jersey, which is the case in most races...
I can see your point, however, well, for me it's just a question of consistency. I don't think it should have ever come to 'the 'Sprint' jersey classification or nothing'... In my mind the answer was unbelievably simple... 'No 'Sprints' Jersey? No problem, we'll score the 'Points' one'... I think you're trying to justify Gkam's stance, quite elegantly, mind you, but ultimately it just made it seem as if the most important thing was backing Gkam rather than providing a consistent experience for the players of this game.. and that, to me, matters more than backing one individual's grandiose posturing and, if you will, stubborn attitude... Not that I know anything about being stubborn... Thinking

.

Anyways, in part it reeks of disinterest and willful defiance and someone 'just taking a stance' when the person who's making these decisions is continually stating they 'have no interest in men's professional cycling this year'... It just makes matters worse for me... It makes me wonder if they're just doing things to 'spice up' the game because they've lost interest in the game as it is... Why would I want someone like that managing the game and taking decisions about a game based on 'men's professional cycling this year'? Waiting Let them only manage the women's races, I say! Waiting I'd rather have someone managing the game who lives and breathes 'men's professional cycling this year', someone that's passionate about men's professional cycling all day, all night, someone who gets excited about who's in the breakaway no matter who's in it, no matter what, no matter the circumstances and someone who cares about providing what the game players want and have come to expect from this great game... Waiting

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1515 posts]
19th June 2014 - 1:21

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If you read the whole of my last statement I think I cover everything you have said without making this in anyway personal to anyone, and as your last post has got very personal im now going to leave it at that on the matter.

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
19th June 2014 - 8:12

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Would it be a better idea for all players just to have the points jersey scored for every race that it is classified, forget the sprint points jersey. That way it cannot be confused.

posted by Joelsim [956 posts]
19th June 2014 - 9:41

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My comment was not intended as a complaint, nor as a dig at gkam. I don't disagree with the decision not to change the scoring after the race start, I was merely raising a query about decisions before the race start.

I did not intend any personal slight and I apologise to gkam for not making that clearer, since offence has been taken.

posted by simon F [978 posts]
19th June 2014 - 10:17

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... as your last post has got very personal im now going to leave it at that on the matter.
You're a very respectful person, T. I fully understand and appreciate your decision. I wish there were more people like you... Thinking I can only applaud the class with which you handle yourself... You, sir, are a gentleman... and a class act... Smile

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Gkam84 wrote:
If for any reason, you have a problem with me personally, take it up with me...

enrique wrote:
I don't have a problem with you...
Maybe I do (!) have a problem with you and maybe I should be more forthcoming... Thinking Or maybe I just take this too personally?... Thinking Or maybe I'm annoyed by what I perceive as 'stubborn' people like me?... Waiting

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Joelsim wrote:
... just... have the points jersey scored for every race... forget the sprint points jersey...
That's a very (!) reasonable idea...

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1515 posts]
19th June 2014 - 14:36

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simon F wrote:
My comment was not intended as a complaint, nor as a dig at gkam. I don't disagree with the decision not to change the scoring after the race start, I was merely raising a query about decisions before the race start.

I did not intend any personal slight and I apologise to gkam for not making that clearer, since offence has been taken.

I wasn't referring to what you had put, your point was valid, and agreed that the decisions before the start of the race maybe should be kept to points whatever the jerseys, but again thats a decision for others to make.

As for the personal comment, I was referring to what Enrique had put, and thus wasn't going to get into a personal slanging match on the matter. (as far as I can tell, everything you put wasn't personal in any way, as you say merely queries)

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
19th June 2014 - 20:11

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simon F wrote:
... I apologise to gkam... since offence has been taken.
I think you're in the clear... Thinking I don't think I'm wrong in believing that offense was taken from my comments, not yours...

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1515 posts]
19th June 2014 - 21:38

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enrique wrote:
simon F wrote:
... I apologise to gkam... since offence has been taken.
I think you're in the clear... Thinking I don't think I'm wrong in believing that offense was taken from my comments, not yours...

Offence is the wrong word, I myself wasn't offended, I just wasn't getting into something so personal. As for Gkam, himself I can't comment, from where I see it, you just seem to have a clash of personalities

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3780 posts]
19th June 2014 - 21:45

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... I myself wasn't offended...
I know...

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
...you just seem to have a clash of personalities...
Heh heh... That (!) we do... sometimes I think it's healthy and sometimes I think we're both kind of neurotic... It's obvious we look at things from very difFerent perspectives and we're both very set in our ways... He thinks he's right, I think I'm right, I think he's a 'Know-it-all', he thinks I'm a 'Know-it-all', and we both think we know more than anybody else... and everybody else probably thinks we're both (!) wrong... Thinking But it's ok... what it comes down to is he runs the game, for the most part quite adequately, and I whine my head off when I think it's being done poorly... In the end I think we're both very much in love with this game and very much enjoy the site and both mutually admire and respect Dave... and both very much get a thrill out of rattling each other's cages...

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1515 posts]
20th June 2014 - 11:38

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TERatcliffe26 wrote:
...you just seem to have a clash of personalities...
Damn... Thinking I miss dr... Thinking Is he ok?... Thinking He must be enjoying some peace and quiet somewhere in the south of France... Thinking

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1515 posts]
20th June 2014 - 13:08

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