Tour de Romandie Stage by Stage Dream Teams, the Giro Budget and a Giro Forum Competition Idea

by enrique   April 30, 2014  

Below you'll find my best calculation of each stage's 'within budget' Dream Team, calculated to the best of my limited abilities and some notes on the Giro budget.

Stage 1's Dream Team, within the set budget of 145 credits, would have been this one below, again, calculated to the best of my abilities:

14.5 Michael Albasini
17.6 Ramunas Navardauskas
10.9 Jesus Herrada Lopez
12.5 Matthias Brandle
37.8 Michal Kwiatkowski
9.0 Maxim Iglinskiy
23.2 Andrew Talansky
4.9 Bjorn Thurau
6.3 Jonathan Hivert

This team would have scored 238 points and would have come in at 136.7 credits, leaving 8.3 credits to spare from the budget of 145.0 credits.

13 user comments

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My premise is we can safely increase the budget quite a lot without getting 'a lot of similar teams' and 'making it too easy'. Of course, the Tour de Romandie isn't quite the right race to make these comparisons. It doesn't have a lot of sprinters for the sprint stages and there's no real true mountaintop finish where people would be tempted to choose the same or similar teams, and all the highest value riders, but, as an experiment, I'll score teams composed of the 4 highest value riders for each diferent type of stage to actual results when we get some of those stages in the Giro. I'll display the results of just putting the highest valued riders on a team, for both mountaintop and flat finishes, when we get to the Giro.

I'd be surprised if a team that could fit in just the 4 highest valued riders and 5 3.0 riders would have won any (!) stage whatsoever, but it'll be fun to find out. If any team like that ever wins out, I'll be the first person to admit I'm wrong, if it ever does happen. Thanks! Smile

In the meantime, the 4 highest valued riders for this competition are below, with 5 3.0 riders to make them company:

40.0 Christopher Froome
37.8 Michal Kwiatkowski
37.7 Vincenzo Nibali
33.7 Rui Faria Da Costa
3.0
3.0
3.0
3.0
3.0

Ponder this... When do you think this particular team may finish with its highest score? Friday's Stage 3 mountain stage or Sunday's final time trial? Thinking Do you think it can beat out any team put to gether under the current budget? Thinking

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posted by enrique [1742 posts]
30th April 2014 - 23:18

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I had skipped the Prologue, so here it is, if anyone wanted to see it...

37.8 Michal Kwiatkowski
19.1 Marcel Kittel
20.4 Rohan Dennis
19.8 Giacomo Nizzolo
13.7 Brett Lancaster
12.5 Matthias Brandle
11.5 Jesse Sergent
3.5 Martijn Keizer
3.0 Matej Mohoric

This team would have scored 206 points and would have come in at abudget of 142.3 credits. Just 2.7 shy of the full budget. So far, none of the Dream Teams have had to slot in a non-scoring rider, usually a 3.0 rider to fit in within budget, a sign there's budget to spare.

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posted by enrique [1742 posts]
2nd May 2014 - 2:49

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Here's today's Stage 2, 'within budget' Dream Team:

14.5 Michael Albasini
6.6 Tony Hurel
37.8 Michal Kwiatkowski
9.5 Martin Kohler
19.8 Giacomo Nizzolo
7.9 Pirmin Lang
11.1 Aleksei Tsatevich
17.6 Ramunas Navardauskas
9.0 Maxim Iglinskiy

This team would have scored 243 points and come around at a budget of 133.8
credits, far (!) below the 145.0 credit budget. So far, you could say you haven't needed the 145.0 credit budget to be bigger to be in good standing. True (!). But I also see it as unnecssarly restriciting the budget, since it hasn't made adifference and the results have been so unpredictable... Thinking

I definitely see this as a race where budget does not rule. So far, the parcours and the riding have not made it necessary to load up on high value riders. Therefore, technically, there really has been no need to restrict he budget...

Basically, I see today as another stage where budget restrictions really have had no effect... Now tomorrow, Friday, could be another story... or not (!)... Who would be your Top 4 riders for tomorrow, if you had no budget restrictions? Thinking We'll see! Wink

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posted by enrique [1742 posts]
2nd May 2014 - 2:53

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Yawn

'Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you'

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posted by livestrongnick [1794 posts]
2nd May 2014 - 8:41

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arsene wrote:
Froome, Nibali, Spilak, Talansky, Uran, Rui Costa should be the strongest today. But also Pinot and the Tinkoff riders (Majka, Roche)... Zoidl is a good option too...

That's a nice hedge! Smile Ok, I'll take these riders and try to create the most balanced 'within budget' Dream Team for today and compare it to the actual Dream Team at the end of the stage and (!) compare it to the score of the Top 4 highest ranked riders to see what the difference would have been... Thinking Who's to say? Maybe choosing the Top 4 highest valued riders for today could (!) beat all the 'within budget' teams! Here we go! Smile

Here's the 'arsene inspired' Dream Team, arguably the 'best' team you could form with the riders above, slotting each in the order they were written down as the riders that scored the most in the stage:

40.0 Christopher Froome
37.7 Vincenzo Nibali
20.8 Simon Spilak
23.2 Andrew Talansky
9.2 Riccardo Zoidl
3.0
3.0
3.0
3.0

Total 142.9

And here's the 4 Highest Value riders in the Romandie competition:

40.0 Christopher Froome
37.8 Michal Kwiatkowski
37.7 Vincenzo Nibali
33.7 Rui Faria Da Costa
3.0
3.0
3.0
3.0
3.0

Total 164.2

Which will fare better? The 'arsene inspired' Dream Team or the Top 4 Highest Value Team? *cue in the trumpets* Smile

Let's see what happens at the end of the stage! Smile

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posted by enrique [1742 posts]
2nd May 2014 - 13:09

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livestrongnick wrote:
Yawn

I'm boring the only member of my audience... How pitiful... Waiting

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posted by enrique [1742 posts]
2nd May 2014 - 13:11

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stevemarks wrote:
Spot on to the organisers the values make it a tough choice in an interesting race. The obvious thing was to pop in [Nibali] and Froome...

I have to agree. the budget value is very (!) fair. So far it seems about right...

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posted by enrique [1742 posts]
2nd May 2014 - 13:15

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chrisdstripes wrote:
With a budget of 180, should hopefully attract the more casual follower.

I'm sort of surprised there's some kind of support for a budget this high, albeit for the reason chris points out to. I thought most people would be like arsene, below:

arsene wrote:
That's too high! Crying

Well, a budget of 180 definitely permits my dream situation, where at least for the Giro, you'll be able to fit in the 4 Highest Value riders in your team, with a 5 3.0 riders to accompany on the 3 week stage race:

37.0 Nairo Alexander Quintana
33.2 Cadel Evans
31.9 Nicolas Roche
30.6 Nacer Bouhanni
3.0
3.0
3.0
3.0
3.0

This team would have come in at a budget of 147.7.

In fact, in the Giro you'll be able to fit in the Top 5 Highest value riders...

37.0 Nairo Alexander Quintana
33.2 Cadel Evans
31.9 Nicolas Roche
30.6 Nacer Bouhanni
29.3 Rigoberto Uran
3.0
3.0
3.0
3.0

This team would have come in at a budget of 174.0. You can certainly fit in up to 5 'Stars' every day.

Maybe the teams will be more alike, but I think it stands to reason that now the race will probably definiteley be decided, not on your selections for the Sprints and the Mountaintops, but on breaks and knowing the more 'obscure' riders that have shone on races outside of the game... Then again, maybe it's always been that way, but now I think the competition will be more exciting, tighter, and maybe!, people will take less risks and have more 'balanced' teams throughout the 3 weeks... I think I'll like it just fine... It'll be cool...

Anyways, yesterday's 'within budget' Dream Team would have ben a nightmare to fit into a 145.0 credit budget, but here it is, calculated to the best of my ability

20.8 Simon Spilak
40.0 Christopher Froome
33.7 Rui Faria Da Costa
17.3 Cyril Gautier
10.9 Jesus Herrada Lopez
4.8 Davide Malacarne
7.6 Johann Tschopp
3.9 Christophe Kern
3.5 Maxime Mederel

This team would have scored 215 points and would have come in at a budget of 141.9.

The best team in the actual competition? This one by Dasilky:

20.8 Simon Spilak
40.0 Christopher Froome
37.7 Vincenzo Nibali
10.9 Jesus Herrada Lopez
17.0 Ion Izaguirre
3.5 Maxime Mederel
3.0 Edward Beltran
3.0 Nathan Earle
3.0 Koldo Fernandez

This team scored 170 points and came in at a budget of 138.9.

These Dream Teams will be so much easier to calculate in the Giro! And, of course, with the higher budget, I would expect that the gap between the 'perfect' team and the 'Dream Team' will be much (!) smaller. I like that (!) And I do think most people will enjoy that (!) Even if they happen to be more 'casual followers'. Thanks, Dave! This should be fun! Smile

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posted by enrique [1742 posts]
3rd May 2014 - 12:34

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Let me explain why I think the budget is too high. Btw I'm talking from a purist point of view.
Imo a lower budget makes the race more tactical and benefits the more 'skilled' players. You have to make a lot more decisions. The teams are more diverse and this makes the competition more exciting because you have a unique set of riders.
With a higher budget everyone picks Quintana, Evans, Rodriguez, so it's not really important who of these riders wins because everyone has them anyway.
I honestly can't think of a way such a high budget can benefit the game. Sad

posted by arsene [217 posts]
3rd May 2014 - 12:44

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arsene wrote:
I'm talking from a purist point of view.

Honestly, I think you're absolutely right. Especially from a Purist point of view.
Not that I'll admit it too many times...

I had posted earlier (but took it down) that maybe we should have another Purist competition, on the forum, maybe, to play Purist with a more restricted budget, maybe 150, 145, 135 credits, I don't know, 'cause I think you're right...

The more 'skilled' players will miss that challenge, I agree...

I had even thought of suggesting to Dave he offer an option to opt-in into a more restricted budget, Purist Wise league for Premium players for the Grand Tours... I think a bunch of you would join that...

Then again, we could form a league called the 'Restricted Budget' Purist League, where the players could agree to play their Purist squads to a much lower budget...

Now, going on about the Forum Competitions, which might be an easier option, one of the good things is that because you can see teams as they are posted, people tend to choose diferent teams, either because their unique set of riders is taken or because they really want someone on their team that hardly anyone knows about or thinks about...

If you're interested in having a Forum Competition with a more restricted budget, let me know... I wouldn't mind running it, but, honestly, the only update I'd be happy to commit to is to score it at the end of the race...

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posted by enrique [1742 posts]
3rd May 2014 - 13:51

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I think we should keep the game simple, so no extra competitions. Wink

To me the only reason for such a high budget is to attract more players, the casual followers. They only know the best riders so a low budget scares them away because they don't know the lesser known riders. Thinking

But that's the point, it kind of dumbs the game down. And furthermore I don't even think it would help the game because there are a lot of high budget games already existing. So it takes away of the unique nature of our game. Surprise

This goes for both the purist and the standard game. Plain Face

posted by arsene [217 posts]
3rd May 2014 - 20:03

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There is only one extra forum competition for the Giro - the now-legendary 'Pick Three Italians' game.

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posted by Ghedebrav [1094 posts]
3rd May 2014 - 20:07

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Ghedebrav wrote:
There is only one extra forum competition for the Giro - the now-legendary 'Pick Three Italians' game.

Great! Smile I'm in! Great follow thru! Smile

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posted by enrique [1742 posts]
3rd May 2014 - 22:25

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