Interesting that the game has a week off and PCS tweet...

Quote:
Pro Cycling Stats ‏@ProCyclingStats
According our analytics people aren’t really interested in the races of these days.

Maybe they should be thanking road.cc for the traffic.

19 user comments

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No, they should be thanking Wikipedia, the UCI and all the teams.

All the do is recycle information and are trying to make money from it.

They should mostly thank http://www.cyclingarchives.com because they have ripped alot of information from there

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posted by Gkam84 [8685 posts]
2nd April 2014 - 21:02

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Is this the only reason you (and others) don't like PCS Gkam? Because they take publicly available information and present it in an easy to use way for filthy profit.

Whilst I value what cycling fever is trying to do, it's a horrible looking site. Plus I have adblocker on.

Advertising wise - It's not as bad as Cycling News.

posted by Twybaydos [272 posts]
2nd April 2014 - 21:22

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I don't mind them taking data and making their site, but to try and make out its unique and worth people paying money, advertising and also their new app's they are going to be launching is in my eyes wrong.

I prefer using sites that are around for the benefit of cycling fans, not ones who are just trying to cash in. So I using Cycling Archives and Cycling Quotient. I avoid PCS like the plague and will not use it.

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posted by Gkam84 [8685 posts]
2nd April 2014 - 21:38

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Gkam84 wrote:
I don't mind them... making their site, but to try and make out its... worth people paying money...

I don't get this. How is it they're trying to make money? Who pays them? Users? Advertisers? And why is this offensive to you? Confused

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1510 posts]
2nd April 2014 - 21:39

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Here is just one of many things

"Partnerships with @tgiantshimano and @cyclingtips announced this week.

Coming weeks more partnerships will be unveiled!!"

Plus advertisers. Road.cc was going to tie in with the fantasy game I believe and they tried to charge a fortune.

They have new app's coming, including a betting one.

The reason it is "offensive" to me, they are using data that is free to access for everyone and most of them are no secret. So why should people be misled into thinking that PCS is the place to find it all.

The fact that I have updated the womens racing startlist here, twice and they haven't even got the teams lined up yet shows their lack of interest in doing things properly and their high interest in just being high profile and making money.

I cannot be bothered to go find the tweet, but the owner of the site gave up their job to make a living from PCS....

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posted by Gkam84 [8685 posts]
2nd April 2014 - 22:40

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Gkam84 wrote:
Here is just one of many things

"Partnerships with @tgiantshimano and @cyclingtips announced this week.

Coming weeks more partnerships will be unveiled!!"

Plus advertisers. Road.cc was going to tie in with the fantasy game I believe and they tried to charge a fortune.

They have new app's coming, including a betting one.

The reason it is "offensive" to me, they are using data that is free to access for everyone and most of them are no secret. So why should people be misled into thinking that PCS is the place to find it all.

The fact that I have updated the womens racing startlist here, twice and they haven't even got the teams lined up yet shows their lack of interest in doing things properly and their high interest in just being high profile and making money.

I cannot be bothered to go find the tweet, but the owner of the site gave up their job to make a living from PCS....

Eh?

They are providing a service and to make enough money to pay their people. It's called business.

I think it's a great site and I fully commend them from trying to get investment in.

posted by Joelsim [951 posts]
4th April 2014 - 9:52

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I see both sides to be honest. I use PCS and like the fact that I can find everything in one place on a site that is fairly well designed and easy to use but I also see Gkam's point.

In other industries (and probably in cycling too) you get sites which scan other news sites and just rip off content in order to get page views and ad revenue. What PCS is doing is an extended version of that where they take information which is freely available or which has been put together by other people and try to make money off it. There's nothing "wrong" about what they're doing but it's also not great that the people who are actually putting together all the information like Cycling Archives don't get the credit they deserve.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
4th April 2014 - 10:10

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drheaton wrote:
...Cycling Archives don't get the credit they deserve...

They don't. I would bet that PCS did take all the information CA put together, it makes sense. And, well, its not propietary information. I feel bad for the CA people but alos have to admit PCS is so (!) much esaier to use, and has so (!) many more features. I think the guy's a genius! He's doing what he loves and he's trying to make a living out of it? Have you seen his tweets about his office? Smile

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1510 posts]
4th April 2014 - 14:37

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drheaton wrote:
...Cycling Archives don't get the credit they deserve...

They don't. I would bet that PCS did take all the information CA put together, it makes sense. And, well, its not proprietary information. I feel bad for the CA people but also have to admit PCS is so (!) much easier to use, and has so (!) many more features. I think the guy's a genius! He's doing what he loves and he's trying to make a living out of it? Have you seen his tweets about his office? Smile

Gkam84 wrote:
Road.cc was going to tie in with the fantasy game I believe and they tried to charge a fortune...

Anyways, I still don't understand what they were trying to charge a fortune for...

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1510 posts]
4th April 2014 - 14:39

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enrique wrote:
drheaton wrote:
...Cycling Archives don't get the credit they deserve...

They don't. I would bet that PCS did take all the information CA put together, it makes sense. And, well, its not proprietary information. I feel bad for the CA people but also have to admit PCS is so (!) much easier to use, and has so (!) many more features. I think the guy's a genius! He's doing what he loves and he's trying to make a living out of it? Have you seen his tweets about his office? Smile

Gkam84 wrote:
Road.cc was going to tie in with the fantasy game I believe and they tried to charge a fortune...

Anyways, I still don't understand what they were trying to charge a fortune for...

I guess it depends on what you mean by fortune...when a single 30 second TV spot during X-Factor can cost £250k in media costs alone...

posted by Joelsim [951 posts]
4th April 2014 - 15:15

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Gkam84 wrote:
... they tried to charge a fortune...

enrique wrote:
I still don't understand what they were trying to charge a fortune for...

Damn. I'm pretty dense. I still can't figure out what they were going to charge you for...

And...

Gkam84 wrote:
Road.cc was going to tie in with the fantasy game...

what does 'tie in' mean? I'm pretty dense. Sorry.

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1510 posts]
4th April 2014 - 20:02

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I've said as much as I'm willing to say. You don't need to know everything about the works of the game Wink

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posted by Gkam84 [8685 posts]
4th April 2014 - 20:27

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Gkam84 wrote:
You don't need to know everything about the works of the game Wink

That's true. I'm just trying to decipher what it is you're trying to say and why you're upset at them and why you keep bringing them up, and what you were trying to do and if there was another way of doing it and if the proposition would have sounded fair to me. It just seems like something you're resentful about and just wanted to help you get it off your chest once and for all, since you've brought it up a couple of times. I'm just curious since you've mentioned it in various threads but you don't really say anything except:

Gkam84 wrote:
I think its better to stick to World Tour races, as "certain" website's that helped us seem to want to make money now and are not interested in linking up.
in October 2013 in the Suggestions/Requests for the 2014 season thread.

and then you said:

Gkam84 wrote:
I gave up using them [PCS]... All they do is rehash startlists from official sites and get rider lists from teams tweeting them. Its nothing special. Anyone could do it and they value their site quite a bit....HAHA...
a few weeks ago in the Volta Ciclista a Catalunya thread.

and again 2 days ago on this thread (above):

Gkam84 wrote:
Road.cc was going to tie in with the fantasy game I believe and they tried to charge a fortune. They have new app's coming, including a betting one.... they are using data that is free to access for everyone and most of them are no secret... why should people be misled into thinking that PCS is the place to find it all... they haven't even got the teams lined up [that] shows their lack of interest in doing things properly and their high interest in just being high profile and making money...

Well, you seem bitter and frustrated about it. Am I wrong?

But there's something weird about this... Thinking Of course, they seem like a professional outfit to me, and you must have liked them to approach them to do 'something' for you in the first place, but then, as I said before, then you sound amazingly bitter, at least to my ears, that they had the 'affront' to want to make a 'fortune' for their services.

You've said at least 3 things about them that reek of discontent, so I thought maybe you just wanted to get it off your chest. But maybe I was wrong. I don't see Dave or dr complaining about it, so I was curious. That's all. I get drawn to mysterious things I don't understand. Like your bitterness towards what seems like one of the coolest cycling sites I know. I'm like a moth to light! It's a mystery to me what a 'fortune' is for you and what you could have possibly wanted to do with them that they would charge you for. That's it.

Maybe it deserves to remain a secret. Maybe it's part of your business plan, but I just thought you seemed in the mood to talk. You having said,

Gkam84 wrote:
I am thinking about setting up a site, either as part of roadcc game or on my own, to include historical race data

well, it makes me wonder what they could possibly do that you didn't already know how to do. And it also makes me wonder if you, like PCS, wouldn't end up republishing already available information? Thinking

Just curious. It just seems that you must (!) have liked them or you wouldn't have approached them. And then it's weird to hear you complain about them. I think they know what they're doing. I just wanted to know what you could have possibly asked them to do that you sounded so desperate that they said, 'You know what? I bet I can charge this guy an arm and a leg for that!' or, as sometimes happens in business, they think, 'Man, I really don't want to work with this guy. I think I'll give him an astronomical quote for my services so he doesn't pester me anymore. I can live without him. He seems more a nuisance than a good client'.

It seems like you were the point man on this, and, well, I wonder why Dave wasn't in on the negotiations and whether you yourself should even be talking about it on the forums. I don't see him talking about it. So I thought maybe it really (!) bothered you and you needed to get it of your chest. So, you brought it up and I thought, 'Well, hell, if he's going to talk, I might as well satisfy my curiousity!' 'I wonder if Gkam's sense of fair pricing is the same as mine?' Now I'll never know! Sad

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1510 posts]
4th April 2014 - 23:27

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I gave up reading after your final quote, I can't remember where that came from, but I was thinking about it a while back.

I don't know the detail for how it was going to work, I am not privy to Road.cc business decisions, as I've said before, I don't work for them, I only do a bit of the fantasy game. I just know there was going to be some sort of tie in and they were asking for alot of money.

As for my dislike of PCS, it has nothing to do with me looking at setting up a website, not their tie in with this site. It has to do with making money by reusing data from someone else.

It is like me making up a data sheet with something on it and then giving it to a friend to do something, but they started selling MY work...

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posted by Gkam84 [8685 posts]
4th April 2014 - 23:39

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Gkam84 wrote:
I gave up reading after your final quote...

Ok. Here's the rest of it with a few paragraphs edited out...

You having said,

Gkam84 wrote:
I am thinking about setting up a site, either as part of roadcc game or on my own, to include historical race data
in October 2013 in the Suggestions/Requests for the 2014 season, well, it made me wonder what PCS could possibly do that you, Gkam, didn't already know how to do. And it also makes me wonder if you, like PCS, wouldn't end up republishing already available information just like they do? Thinking

Blah, blah, blah...

I just wonder if you should even be talking about PCS and failed business dealings with Road.cc on the forums. I don't see Dave talking and complaining about it.

Blah, blah, blah...

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1510 posts]
5th April 2014 - 0:46

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your right, I said to much Laughing

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posted by Gkam84 [8685 posts]
5th April 2014 - 1:40

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Gkam84 wrote:
You're right, I said too much...

Yeah... Sometimes it's better if we keep a lid on things like that... You never know if the people at PCS look at this site, see you yakking about it and decide, 'Nah, I don't want to do business with them... They talk too much... And don't seem to be able to keep our business dealings private' Blah blah blah... Good talk! Wink

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1510 posts]
5th April 2014 - 2:10

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I did have something up and took it down before you quoted and asked more questions Day Dreaming

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posted by Gkam84 [8685 posts]
5th April 2014 - 2:20

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Gkam84 wrote:
I did have something up and took it down before you quoted...

Oops!

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1510 posts]
5th April 2014 - 2:32

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