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OPINION
How not to be a knob to female cyclists
Sun, Jan 19, 2014 15:24
105
Female cyclist giving thumbs up (uploaded to Flickr under CC-BY-SA licence by Chris Hunkeler)This week a BT Sport survey found that 80 per cent of women athletes polled felt pressure to conform to a certain look and body type.
Hold that thought for a second - the vast majority of athletes, women at the top of their game physically, are facing pressure from the media, social media, coaches, sports officials and other athletes to look a certain way - as Rebecca Adlington put it on that jungle programme through a curtain of tears: ‘stick thin, big boobs and a pretty face.’
76 of the athletes said their behaviour had been influenced - so they might change their diet (87 per cent), or their training (58 per cent). One athlete said she developed an eating disorder, while another said: “Sometimes it has meant my diet no longer is optimum for performance but becomes optimum for looking slimmer/thinner....which isn't my body type.”
Perhaps some of the pressure comes from the way women athletes are constantly being pursued to pose naked - although perhaps the highest profile British woman pro cyclist, Victoria Pendleton, didn’t seem too concerned about going nude in GQ magazine before the Olympics.
“I don’t suppose it does bother me really,” she said. “I have done a few sexy photoshoots, I’ve been told I’ve got a nice bum, plus when I compete I am wearing a skin suit, so really, what’s the difference?”
Having said that, she’s also said that she was ‘saddened’ to have her muscles airbrushed out of media images, to make her look ‘more feminine’, and told BT Sport this week: “I think that it would be really valuable if women were celebrated for their achievements more.”
It’s easy to think these superstars should get over it - stop looking at the abuse on Twitter, ignore the insecurity and think of the pound signs - but there’s a more insidious side to all of this.
Women already battle a number of reasons not to get on a bike every day. From bike shop assistants who don’t understand women’s cycling needs or patronise them, to employers who don’t provide showers or decent changing facilities, to clubs that don’t know how to cater to women, to traffic fears when cycling with children - the list of reasons not to get onto a saddle can seem endless.
The Australian Heart Foundation’s report into women and cycling last year found the need to transport children and cycling clothes being unfashionable were the reasons a third of women gave for men cycling more than them.
Whether or not you think these are valid excuses to choose a car over a bike, it’s hard to argue it’s a good thing these women aren’t cycling.
So let’s not give women any more reasons to leave the bike at home.
Here’s how not to be a dick to a female cyclist in six simple steps*
1. Do not fetishise her
Women on bikes don’t want your pervy comments any more than they want your rude ones. Victoria Pendleton probably gets a tiny bit of sick in her mouth every time some guy tells her how much he likes to look at her in cycling shorts.
Many women already feel self-conscious putting it all on show, so make like you haven’t noticed it, okay?
If you have some creepy thing about tight Lycra, keep it to yourself, or look online for some like-minded weirdos to share it with instead.
2. Do not harass her
I know you might not be one of them, but those guys exist. The ones who shout things out of car windows, or worse, film your arse as you ride along (yep, it happens). Don’t do it - it’s probably illegal and it’s never ended well for any guy who’s tried it with me.
3. Don’t put mean comments under reviews of women’s clothing
When we review women’s clothing at road.cc, we do it so women know whether a bit of gear is worth forking out for. When we photograph a woman wearing it, we do it so she gets a vague idea of whether she likes the look of it.
What we don’t do is photograph it so you get to leer all over that woman in tight clothing, comment on whether or not she is ‘really’ a cyclist or suggest some super-helpful diet or exercise tips for her to look more like a ‘real’ cyclist.
Besides being unpleasant for the woman in the picture, take a second to think about how an 'ordianary' woman thinking about taking up riding is going to feel about the reception she might get.
4. Don’t put mean comments under reviews of men’s clothing, either
One of our male reviewers often gets mocked for being too skinny, and some bloke last week decided to point out that he doesn’t have 'proper cyclists legs' - which was quite funny as he's just got a semi-pro contract with a Belgian team for the season.
Just don’t body snark - it just makes you look like a dick.
5. Do speak out
If you see a woman (or a man) getting abused for any reason, do speak out. Tell that person their Tweet wasn’t cool. Call out the pervy guy on the club run. The person on the receiving end will be grateful and if 0.00001% of knobs change their attitude because of what you said, that’s still progress.
6. Don’t give unsolicited ‘advice’
The girls you know who cycle might really want your advice on what protein shakes to have for breakfast, or how sprint intervals will make them leaner, or whatever. If they want it, they’ll ask.
If they don’t, they’ll just carry on riding whatever bike they chose, wearing whatever they picked out for the purpose, eating whatever tastes good. But thanks for your concern.
*There are probably loads more ways not to be a knob to women on bikes. Feel free to add your own in the comments below.
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105 comments
Clearly cycling draws participants from across social boundaries and with different behaviour and opinions. As much as we'd nod in misplaced smug self-satisfaction at that Facebook post that states (something like) 'cyclists are more intelligent than average', we're not a homogeneous group just because we ride: it appeals to all sorts, and just as in wider society there'll always be unpleasant 'knobs'. So it's not really a 'bike thing'. Treat women the way you'd want to see your mother/sister/wife/partner/daughter treated, and you're probably not far off, and challenge sexist behaviour where you find it. One last thing, without wanting to undermine the serious nature if this thread: I always thought it was 'nob', as in the sightly-more-amusing put-down 'nobber'?
I don't agree with point 6. As a female cyclist (& I imagine I would be the same if I was a man) I always appreciate advise. To be honest I would rather someone told me something useful which I would never think to ask. Knowledge is key, & at the end of the day you can take it or leave it.
I do find this article a bit strange, in a way that it seems to have highlighted an issue, that to me, is not there. Yes, when I overtake some men, they do overtake me back, but I find it funny & its usually the same type of person. The type of person who would be the same in any walk of life, on a bike or not. Anyway, I find the more enthusiastic & addicted riders on a club run are actually pretty impressed that a young girl can hack it with the better riders, & I love that
(But maybe that’s the attitude this article is trying to put a stop to, who knows) 
I've been hankering after wanting to suggest this for AGES, road.cc that would be awesome! (and if you need anyone to fill content I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in piping up for the cause).
On the subject of #6 (seems to be popular) - while advice is great, and cyclists who are more experienced should always be on hand to help someone who perhaps is a little newer - sometimes we (the ladies) get a little more than necessary. Sometimes it gets very much overly patronising, and comes across from some people as a "there there dear, this is how you do it, I know I can't expect you to understand" kind of way. Like, for example, on strava - completely random strangers commenting on my rides with unrealistic training advice (even though it's well known I use a coaching company, that's who I've been riding for for the last year), or comments like "did you know your max hr is too high?" - no, mate, I didn't notice. O.o
I've lost count of the amount of guys I know and don't know both in person and on social media making crude comments about lady cyclists, sometimes directly at me, often some of them being UNDER the age of 18 (and at times even 15) - it's disgusting. I'm not a girly girl and I'm all for a bit of below the belt banter but these are people who expect respect in the peloton, yet still deem it necessary to belittle and objectify female cyclists as if it were the 1950's.
I'm fed up with it, quite frankly. Vicky P did NOT help as it seems that since then guys have found it OK to comment about my boobs when pics of me racing are posted - not only does that make me feel both self conscious and angry but I can't even begin to imagine how distressing it is for my partner.
Don't even get me started on the idiot from [ateamwhowillnotbenamed] who kicked off on twitter yesterday about there being a ladies race at CDNW. >.<
It's not right, in fact its less than not right.
I let on to all roadies (unless they are wearing full Assos kit and riding a £8k Pinarello) but do notice that young females tend not to reciprocate.
I dont have a problem with this i hasten to add because im sure it could be misconstrued as sleazy but its a sad indictment that they must feel that way.
Sadly i dont think the "You dont want to do it like that" type just direct their 'advice' only to females but they probably just find it easier to patronise women, so do it more.
Wow... I really will never offer advice ever again.
I think I may be a relic from the sports past... back in my day, the club scene was quite hierarchical, there were the 'special' ones that everyone wanted to become... anything thing that helped you get there was grabbed at, and should a 'special one' notice you and try and help... well hells bells, that must mean you had something.
In hindsight, this was all rather silly, but as a 17 year old, it gave direction, focus and purpose.
I think these days, people enter the sport at a later age (it is an adult discovery for many) and I'm guessing, the last thing grown adults want, is someone telling them what to do, to be applying some form of hierarchy upon them.
Interestingly insightful.
To me that would too personal to approach an unknown young lady. That is definitely something left for another woman to tell her the "unwritten rules" about cycling. I would imagine if she continues to ride with the same group , then you just became "that creepy guy" who was checking out her underwear situation.
The last time I gave some unsolicited advice it was to a triathlete newbie, 20+ years my junior, it was about her helmet. Her chin strap was so loose that she could have put both her forearms between her chin and the strap.
Don't really see the point of the article tbh, just sounds like someone having a whinge because someone hasn't been nice to them. If you think someone is being a knob because they offer you unsolicited advice, is it them genuinely trying to be helpful; if that causes you a problem, just say thanks but no thanks, no need to start getting excited and branding them as knobs. If someone is doing something that is offensive and illegal report them, if not ignore them they'll soon get bored, otherwise there are people who do unpopular things, you should just MTFU and get on with it. If you can't do that, ride with someone else, I'm sure it wouldn't bother them if you did.
How about female races in fantasy cycling???
This year there is the 9 races of the Women's World Cup included, definitely a start
I'm surprised no one commented on the woman in the photo.
Another unwritten rule for roadies, no arm warmers with sleeveless jerseys. 
Not just women who are feeling the cycling confirming pressure. As a larger lad, I feel the stares. Some guys have decided to embrace it (call it largesse...) and cater for the bigger sizes: http://fatladattheback.com/. Maybe time for a female equivalent, as our favourite sport should not discriminate on any grounds (lard real red or otherwise).
I still can't believe that in 2014 we're still having debates like this. However, it's posts like the one quoted above that makes articles like this necessary. I'm all for equality but the fact of the matter is we're all different. Men have different reasons to women for wanting to ride. Men have different "equipment needs" to women when it comes to bike, saddle and clothing. Forgive me because I don't want to be "personal" or anything but this might be news to you but whilst it's virtually unheard of for a man to wear anything under his bibshorts, most women do wear underwear underneath, especially at certain times of the month . Surprisingly, our anatomy is different; lady bits and chamois don't tend to make a great combination and lots of women prefer to keep their underwear on. Not that the undergarments of your new lady cycling buddy are any of your business mind you, all your "personal" advice probably did was make her think you were a complete moron. Either that or you've now given the wrong advice to someone. Hopefully it's just the former and she's not now riding around with chaffed nether regions because some bloke at the club told her she was wearing the wrong gear. Now, I appreciate it won't have occurred to you that there was a good reason why she might be wearing underwear. Likewise, I do know a couple of lady cyclists who go commando and are quite happy. Like most things, it's personal preference. The issue for me is that you even thought it was appropriate to say that to a lady joining your group. If she wants to ride in jogging bottoms who are you to comment? It wouldn't be my personal preference but if she's keeping up and her bottoms aren't getting stuck in her chain then fine. If your group is anything like ours, there aren't many women who join and those that do are usually put off the banter after a couple of weeks or can't keep up, or both. A good cycling group should do nothing but be polite and welcoming. I've seen plenty of men riding along looking like complete idiots. Anything from hairy legs that resemble my carpet after my pet Labrador has had a good old scratch rolling up to the start line of a road race (which I personally don't see what all the fuss was about but I'm told by my fellow male cyclists arguably comes under the same category as riding with underwear under your bibs), to plenty of mechanical faux pas like riding along with their brakes stuck on, and even a bloke who had his kit on inside out. Not to mention the countless 'monkey on stick' riding styles where the operative has clearly purchased a bike two sizes too small because it was in the sales or had a nice name on it. Your new lady cyclist might not have your idea of the correct etiquette when it comes to undergarments but at least she had it all on the right way round. All of these things have made me chuckle to myself or have a good old giggle with my husband on the way home, but I'd never embarrass one of these fellow cyclists by commenting so openly on it, certainly not in front of others.
I don't doubt that after I post this the anti-feminist brigade will be out in force and I'll be down as a man hater or even this post will be removed for being too much. Actually, it has nothing to do with being a feminist, it's not even got much to do with being a woman or indeed a man. It has to do with being polite. Next time you or any one else on this forum thinks they might like to make a comment or give someone "advice", have a think, is this polite?
Yes, I'm a woman. Yes, I'm a cyclist. Yes, I've had awful comments made to me both out on the bike and at work when arriving in my cycling gear. And, yes, I think that more needs to be done to encourage women to get out on their bikes at all - either together or mixed groups, it doesn't matter. However, I guarantee that if people continue to make comments like some people make on this forum, not just those derogatory comments about women, then this website is doing nothing to encourage anyone into the sport, let alone women. And, just for the record, next time you see a woman wearing underwear under her bibs, just leave her to it!
All very good - most of it is about not treating women as objects for your sexual gratification. However, that last one seems right out of order. I mean how unfriendly could a person possibly be? I offer advice on improving performance and diet to both genders and I've never had a complaint. The underwear issue is probably mentioned to avoid chafing but until now I hadn't figured that a woman might be wearing underwear because of her time of the month. Don't think I've ever looked long enough to notice anyway.
Anyway, put this in perspective - today I was shouted at for riding in the middle of the road (I was overtaking parked cars) and told I was a "f**king foreign c**t". That last one was quite loud have given a statement to the Police. Owner of the vehicle is to be questioned regarding a possible offence under the Public Order Act (I obviously can't go into more details)
Hang on a second - is this meant to be an article telling men how to treat women on bicycles? Seems like people are treating as such even though it isn't said. If so, can we have an article about how women should treat men on bicycles? Let's start with not being unfriendly...
Applauds Aweebear
Addressing #6... if you don't know you don't know and somebody comes up and enlightens you, then you know and now know you didn't know and what you know now might be handy.
Depends how it's done, is all.
excellent points made, certainly gives food for thought...well said.
MB
I reject no'6 because
a) people have dangerous cycling habits like cycling in the door zone, not shoulder-checking etc, and you could save their life by pointing this out.
b) so many cyclists cycle with their seat too low.
I do find this article a bit strange, in a way... Yes, when I overtake some men, they do overtake me back, but I find it funny & its usually the same type of person. The type of person who would be the same in any walk of life, on a bike or not.
[[[[[[ Look on the bright side. These blokes who "re-overtake" you---at least they're not sitting an inch off your rear wheel, staring at your...er...rear.
P.R.
It may just be my thick skin, but I can't recall having being personally treated negatively because I'm female.
I may have once or twice in two years had something shouted at me out of a vehicle window, but everyone gets nutters like that now and again.
Shops, fine.
Club runs, if I get dropped, that's due to a lack of fitness, not my sex. If anything, blokes seem to welcome having a woman along a lot of the time. Oh, apart from the lack of shelter I provide.
Last week on another forum, I pulled up a couple of blokes for taking the piss out of a photo of a rather large woman in bib tights, but a woman had also commented negatively, and they probably would've said similar had it been a man.
I often catch up with cyclists with screeching chains and have been on the verge of offering chain oil a number of times. I thought I'd say, your chain is dry, it is wearing fast and pedalling is harder, here is some oil. Never mustered the courage. I am glad to find out it would have been a mistake.
Meanwhile, try searching twitter for the hashtag #sportswomen - some of the questions posted for a Q&A with gymnast Beth Tweddle will make your toes curl, and reminds me that ultimately, while some may disagree on the points above, we are all actually trying to be civilised human beings.
God some of that was horrendous. We were having a big twitter debate on it yesterday.
I think there's a very fine line between banter between mates (we all have a dig now and again) - out and out bullying and sexually harrassing a SPORTSperson, not even a celebrity for the sake of celebrity, like that is horrendous.
Someone in work today said "well is that not just freedom of speech?" - to which my answer was simply that these people would not say these things to these people in real life, these are men and women who in reality could be quite nice and normal, yet when presented with the shroud of the internet feel it necessary to objectify other human beings to the point that they can instill such bitter hatred towards them to the point of causing real distress and damage.
And it's not necessarily the point that women are the only subject of this sort of harassment, but the behavior directed towards women does seem to have some trend of deeper, more personal angling. I think the point is that while women are simply humans too and we should all just take it with a pinch of salt, we're built differently to men and our brains work in different ways. While we'd like to be as thick skinned as our male counterparts that sometimes just isn't possible, we can read deeply and sensitively into what could be meant as passing jest and it can really, really affect us.
This isn't meant to be a teeny tiny violin moment either. Say what you [not directed at anyone here] like behind peoples backs, that's your own prerogative but please take a moment to think about what you're about to say in public, and realise that there are always consequences to all actions.
I think the point on the knickers under shorts thing is that to a lady that is a VERY personal thing, while blokes are alright to lob it out for a waz at the side of the road, most women are incredibly sensitive to anything to do with the body and the idea that someone has actually spent time to look at their bottom to be able to make such a comment can come across in very much the wrong way. The idea of being looked at like that can make some girls feel immensely self conscious.
Banter/moral value - there IS a difference.
I'm not one for giving a toss but shits getting a bit much these days.
I had a look at the Twitter posts about Beth Tweddle - it's enough to put any woman off competing in sport.
Warriors behind keyboards, that's the thing. I'd say that I'd like to be in the room when they say it, but I reckon if they were confronted with an angry-looking (but let's be fair, not big & tough) Beth Tweddle, their insults would likely disappear up their own ar$es. It's no different to road-rage - people say stuff from inside a tin box that they wouldn't dare say up-close.
Here in the USA, I'll often wave Hello to other cyclists going the opposite way. If it is a woman riding solo, a large majority won't reciprocate and wave back, yet it changes to 50/50 possibility if they are riding with a man.
[[[[[ Well, fancynancy, would most women rather have these geezers (a) "re-overtaking" them---or (b) riding behind them for a mile? If I were female, and sensitive, I think I know which option I'd prefer. But as a chap, I also get "re-overtaken" by other chaps....and the older I get, the more I shrug...
P.R.
Sure, but there is also a difference between well meant advice that is just a bit too personal vs harassment. The problem I have with these kinds of articles is that usually no distinction is made between the two, even though they are obviously quite different (and people guilty of the one do not deserve the same response as people guilty of the other).
I also take issue with your rather sexist stereotyping of men as insensitive boors vs women as dainty little flowers. There are plenty of men who are sensitive and women with a very thick skin. Ultimately there is a (culturally determined) level of sensitivity that is too high, where a person can't expect the world to adapt to that over-sensitivity. IMO, getting upset that people look at your bum on the bike is oversensitive, because it's just what is right on front of you in a peloton. It's natural for (tired) cyclists to focus on part of the rider in front of them. That can be a wheel, the rear brake, the bum or the shirt. That is not automatically sexual in nature.
It's not a guy's fault when his behavior is completely misinterpreted.
Whilst I agree that there should be some sort of distinction made in these articles between what is perceived as sexual harassment and innocent advice, my point is that an understanding and a level of empathy needs to be reached by all peers to adapt to accepting all genders into the peloton. Taking a step back before commenting on a girls underwear and processing the advice before giving it would be beneficial to all parties and stop this sort of misunderstanding from ever occurring. Your stance may be "well why should we have to" - we all make exceptions in life to accommodate for the different scenarios we encounter and accepting that males and females are different not just biologically but personally and intimately is not something that should be dismissed by equality. Put simply, yes - it sucks that these articles have to come to light, and yes we should all be able to just crack on and not be affected by these things but we all need to realise that is NOT the case and sometimes, unfortunately, this might mean eggshells - or just putting a bit of thought to a statement before giving it.
Could you please cite my alleged stereotyping of men? As I'd kept my statements fairly homogeneous in keeping with my standpoint on the subject.
As I've just said, we are ALL different - and to get along we need to interpret each and every personality, be it male or female, sensitive or not, in different ways.
Also as mentioned time and time again, I couldn't give a rats arse if the guy or girl behind me is looking at my arse as long as he doesn't clip my wheel and equally as long as he OR she doesn't comment on said arse afterward - which happens *too much* and this is what this article is pointing out. The fact is that there is unfortunate majority of males both within the peloton and outside of it (generally around social media) who feel it necessary to objectify sportswomen and in turn be outspoken on their misinformed and blatantly sexist opinions is damaging not just to those who are sensitive but to sport itself.
This is not a "sexist" opinionated biased view on the matter, this is fact, you only need to watch twitter for an hour to discover this.
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