• Minister rejects MP's call to scrap causing death by careless driving offence due to "misuse" by CPS1 year 16 weeks agoFluffyKittenofTindalos

    FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:
    stumps wrote:
    oldstrath, i can play devils advocate in saying a cyclist going to quickly on a steep incline can ultimately cause the death of themselves or another so should cycling be banned ?

    By this i mean Wouter Weylandt, an absolutely marvellous cyclist who, due to "a mistake" in going to just that little bit to fast lost his life. Now if someone who is a professional at handling a cycle can sadly pass away due to a mistake, where does that leave the mere mortals such as us ?

    That's a poor example to choose. A risk of killing yourself is a very different kind of 'danger' to the risk of killing others. And am I to understand this was in the context of high-speed sport? That's not really relevant to every day transport cycling.

    (Its not as if there isn't an example of the latter on this site right now that you could have used instead, mind! But the question is one of how frequently such deaths occur, where no-one is considered to be to blame to a criminal degree, and there's a massive difference between cycling and driving in that regard. Indeed I wonder how cycling compares to running or fast walking in that respect?)

    I know what you mean but what i wanted to get across was the simple mistakes, even by the best at what they are doing, can still lead to fatalities. I could have used the exmple of the cyclist who went down the hill to fast for the bend and hit the young girl on the crossing nearly killing her but i'm not aware if everyone knew that incident.

  • Tech Roundup: Colnago, Indy Fab, Polar, Muc-Off, Morvelo, Lapierre and more1 year 16 weeks agoInteresting wind tunnel

    Interesting wind tunnel testing.

    The tunnel is too small to do the testing, any results from this tunnel regarding his position on the bike will be meaningless.

  • Tech Roundup: Colnago, Indy Fab, Polar, Muc-Off, Morvelo, Lapierre and more1 year 16 weeks agoYou might want to

    You might want to double-check the "nationality" of the Polar brand Smile

  • Tour de San Luis Stage 71 year 16 weeks agoGhedebrav wrote:Oh, just

    Ghedebrav wrote:
    Oh, just realise I finally got a good stage in!... Seriously considered calling my son Sacha. Family shouted it down... ditto Fabian, but the wife's now on board for that if child no. 2 is a lad...

    Sacha is a lovely name, amd so is Fabian... Love the excitement! Smile

    ray silvester wrote:
    ... are you not going to run one of the mini-races between now and Qatar? Etoile de Besseges/Dubai Tour/Jayco...

    Ok, Dubai it will be...

  • Minister rejects MP's call to scrap causing death by careless driving offence due to "misuse" by CPS1 year 16 weeks agopaulmcmillan wrote:I see the

    paulmcmillan wrote:
    I see the reason for the current system, but

    from my point of view, if I am killed by a motor vehicle it is of little consolation that they were only driving carelessly rather than dangerously. The end result for me is the same - why should the end result for the person responsible for my death be different?

    I suppose the key point there is the meaing of the word 'responsible'. Seems as if "careless driving" means "only driving as badly as is socially accepted, i.e. what the average driver thinks is normal". While "dangerous driving" means driving even more badly than that.

    In the first case the driver is not wholly responsible - rather the responsibility is shared with, and thus diffused across, a larger group or even an entire culture.

    I don't actually think this is entirely wrong - if you are only doing what the wider culture tells you is acceptable then it does seem unfair to scapegoat you alone if it all goes wrong on this occassion.

    The unfortunate result though is that an entire group gets away with habitually behaving badly towards others.

  • Minister rejects MP's call to scrap causing death by careless driving offence due to "misuse" by CPS1 year 16 weeks agoI see the reason for the

    I see the reason for the current system, but

    from my point of view, if I am killed by a motor vehicle it is of little consolation that they were only driving carelessly rather than dangerously. The end result for me is the same - why should the end result for the person responsible for my death be different?

  • Sugoi Zap Shoe Covers1 year 16 weeks agoSo, the rear of the overshoe,

    So, the rear of the overshoe, the bit that drivers would take most notice of when it shows up in their headlights, is black.

    OK there is a logo to the rear that I hope is reflective but the overshoe appears to be much more reflective from the front and side than the rear which makes it far less useful than it could have been and no more visible than 'normal' overshoes at half the price.

  • Minister rejects MP's call to scrap causing death by careless driving offence due to "misuse" by CPS1 year 16 weeks agostumps wrote:oldstrath

    stumps wrote:
    oldstrath wrote:
    paulmcmillan wrote:
    If you choose to drive a car carelessly, is that not dangerous?

    I would delete 'carelessly'. Even here, the comments are full of stuff such as "momentary lapses in concentration" as an excuse for killing people. It seems to me that humans simply aren't able to control tonnes of metal, travelling at high speeds, well enough, all the time, and we should stop kidding ourselves that we are. This, incidentally, is why I stopped driving. I just don't think we can cope.

    Its not an excuse its a reason why the accident occurred. But go ahead feel free to say it should be removed and i can guarantee there will be hell of a lot of cases are never prosecuted.

    The CPS will always try and plea bargain, as will the defence, because not having a trial is cheap and they will always get a conviction and its as simple as that. In my 20+ years as a cop i have been to Crown Court in excess of 20 times and have never had to give evidence, mainly due to plea bargaining.

    I think the reliance on plea-bargaining is regrettable, because it seems to turn what should be a process of establishing truth into a kind of game. It seems to me that it works well for the guilty, especially the habitual criminal who knows the system and how to play it, while working very badly for the innocent, especially those are entirely unfamiliar with playing this particular game.

    I suppose with a criminal justice system as with everything else, you get what you pay for.

  • Minister rejects MP's call to scrap causing death by careless driving offence due to "misuse" by CPS1 year 16 weeks agostumps wrote:oldstrath, i can

    stumps wrote:
    oldstrath, i can play devils advocate in saying a cyclist going to quickly on a steep incline can ultimately cause the death of themselves or another so should cycling be banned ?

    By this i mean Wouter Weylandt, an absolutely marvellous cyclist who, due to "a mistake" in going to just that little bit to fast lost his life. Now if someone who is a professional at handling a cycle can sadly pass away due to a mistake, where does that leave the mere mortals such as us ?

    That's a poor example to choose. A risk of killing yourself is a very different kind of 'danger' to the risk of killing others. And am I to understand this was in the context of high-speed sport? That's not really relevant to every day transport cycling.

    (Its not as if there isn't an example of the latter on this site right now that you could have used instead, mind! But the question is one of how frequently such deaths occur, where no-one is considered to be to blame to a criminal degree, and there's a massive difference between cycling and driving in that regard. Indeed I wonder how cycling compares to running or fast walking in that respect?)

  • Cyclists injured by Edinburgh station anti-terrorism barriers1 year 16 weeks agoAm not familiar with

    Am not familiar with Edinburgh, but it does seem that much of what is done on the basis of 'won't somebody please think of the terrorists' turns out to be nonsensical theatre that is likely to cause more damage than it will prevent.

    I also think that part of the problem may be the general overuse of 'dismount' and 'no cycling' signs where there is no good reason for them, which leads to too many cyclists getting into the habit of ignoring them even where they really shouldn't.

    And, yeah, as andyp says, surely, if certain posters on this site are to be believed, these bollards should be high-viz yellow or they might as well be invisible?

  • Beginner's advice on pedals & shoes?1 year 16 weeks agoI use the Shimano A530s with

    I use the Shimano A530s with SPDs: it's a 'half and half' pedal suitable for road, MTB and everyday shoes. It's clunkier and likely heavier than the A520 but great if you use the bike around town as well as for longer training rides. I've had no problem with the 'single-side' access to the clips...

  • not another which bike to buy thread...1 year 16 weeks agoRose xeon csl 3000.its a

    Rose xeon csl 3000.its a carbon bike with ultegra groupset.frame weighs just 970grams and the bike is fitted with mavic kysyrium equipe wheels.available in white/grey and carbon/green.bike weighs about 7.25kg and costs £1523.job done

  • Minister rejects MP's call to scrap causing death by careless driving offence due to "misuse" by CPS1 year 16 weeks agooldstrath, i can play devils

    oldstrath, i can play devils advocate in saying a cyclist going to quickly on a steep incline can ultimately cause the death of themselves or another so should cycling be banned ?

    By this i mean Wouter Weylandt, an absolutely marvellous cyclist who, due to "a mistake" in going to just that little bit to fast lost his life. Now if someone who is a professional at handling a cycle can sadly pass away due to a mistake, where does that leave the mere mortals such as us ?

  • Tech Roundup: Colnago, Indy Fab, Polar, Muc-Off, Morvelo, Lapierre and more1 year 16 weeks agoAllez might want to look out

    Allez might want to look out for the big S and their briefcase wielding team of suits......

  • Cycling to take centre stage at 2014 Yorkshire Festival1 year 16 weeks agoGreat video but I hope the

    Great video but I hope the band don't get into trouble with the ASA for riding over 50cm from the kerb.

  • Members of the House of Lords question the government on cycle safety and funding1 year 16 weeks agoCall it idiocy, hysterical or

    Call it idiocy, hysterical or whatever, however the fact is motor vehicles will NEVER be banned. They may well be limited to various days when oil starts to run out but i imagine by then a new source of propulsion will be in use and it wont matter.

    Vehicles, cycles and pedestrians can all live together in harmony IF the infrastructure is done properly ie: Holland, without knee jerk reactions.

  • Cyclists injured by Edinburgh station anti-terrorism barriers1 year 16 weeks agoAh. I've spotted the problem.

    Ah. I've spotted the problem. According to many people on this site, if something is black, then you can't see it.

    What colour are the barriers? Simple.

    Actually, they might want to sort those taxis out too. How is anybody supposed to see those, etc. They should be fluorescent yellow and have comedy flashing LEDs, right?

    numpties.

  • Minister rejects MP's call to scrap causing death by careless driving offence due to "misuse" by CPS1 year 16 weeks agostumps wrote:oldstrath

    stumps wrote:
    oldstrath wrote:
    paulmcmillan wrote:
    If you choose to drive a car carelessly, is that not dangerous?

    I would delete 'carelessly'. Even here, the comments are full of stuff such as "momentary lapses in concentration" as an excuse for killing people. It seems to me that humans simply aren't able to control tonnes of metal, travelling at high speeds, well enough, all the time, and we should stop kidding ourselves that we are. This, incidentally, is why I stopped driving. I just don't think we can cope.

    Its not an excuse its a reason why the accident occurred. But go ahead feel free to say it should be removed and i can guarantee there will be hell of a lot of cases are never prosecuted.

    The CPS will always try and plea bargain, as will the defence, because not having a trial is cheap and they will always get a conviction and its as simple as that. In my 20+ years as a cop i have been to Crown Court in excess of 20 times and have never had to give evidence, mainly due to plea bargaining.


    If it is a reason, rather than an excuse, then I think you've just supported my view that driving is , per se, too dangerous to be allowed. Because you are claiming that from time to time people are killed not because someone is excessively aggressive, or reckless, or exceptionally stupid. But merely because they made a simple mistake, a mistake that apparently anyone could make.

    And of course, I agree with you. We all make mistakes - total focus all the time is impossible. But a means of transport that involves the risk of killing people purely by the sort of ordinary easy mistake we all make is simply too dangerous to allow.

  • Rapha Merino Boxers1 year 16 weeks agoSuperman has a pair of these.

    Superman has a pair of these. That's why he wears them outside his clothes; it's nothing to do with being a superhero, just letting everyone know how much he spends on his pants

  • Japanese court awards over £270k in damages to family of woman killed by cyclist1 year 16 weeks agoteaboy wrote:BigBear63

    teaboy wrote:
    BigBear63 wrote:

    It's rather harsh to fine someone £275000 for colliding with a pedestrian, whilst only riding at 10-13mph, even if they did jump a red light. Over here killing someone with a car or lorry rarely results in more than a small fine and points on the licence. Both extremes are bizarre in my view.

    Which of these is likely to make you behave best on the road?

    The answer might depend on how wealthy you are!

    I don't know enough about the Japanese legal system to answer that question. The trouble with civil liability as a sanction is if you are very, very rich you might not care, and if you are very poor you may have no assets to lose. And maybe this is all dealt with under the insurance system in Japan anyway?

    Ideally the aim should be to greatly reduce the likelihood of such things happening in the first place - protect people even from their own bad behaviour. Partly through changing physcial infrastructure and partly through changing social norms and so changing what people will habitually do.

    A lot of "accidents" that result from bad driving (and maybe cycling) occur becuase 'everybody does it' and so people think nothing of doing it themselves. Then the CPS, juries, and magistrates also think "everybody does it" so don't feel its right to punish the one who was "unlucky"

  • Minister rejects MP's call to scrap causing death by careless driving offence due to "misuse" by CPS1 year 16 weeks agooldstrath wrote:paulmcmillan

    oldstrath wrote:
    paulmcmillan wrote:
    If you choose to drive a car carelessly, is that not dangerous?

    I would delete 'carelessly'. Even here, the comments are full of stuff such as "momentary lapses in concentration" as an excuse for killing people. It seems to me that humans simply aren't able to control tonnes of metal, travelling at high speeds, well enough, all the time, and we should stop kidding ourselves that we are. This, incidentally, is why I stopped driving. I just don't think we can cope.

    Its not an excuse its a reason why the accident occurred. But go ahead feel free to say it should be removed and i can guarantee there will be hell of a lot of cases are never prosecuted.

    The CPS will always try and plea bargain, as will the defence, because not having a trial is cheap and they will always get a conviction and its as simple as that. In my 20+ years as a cop i have been to Crown Court in excess of 20 times and have never had to give evidence, mainly due to plea bargaining.

  • Members of the House of Lords question the government on cycle safety and funding1 year 16 weeks agojasecd wrote:Ush wrote:Quote:

    jasecd wrote:
    Ush wrote:
    Quote:
    Lord Popat for the government responded on his earlier point: “We do not want to make cycle helmets compulsory. We would rather encourage and support people to wear helmets for safety.”

    No.

    Bicycle helmets are have not been clearly shown to increase anyone's safety.

    In addition he endless banging on about them, the publicization and promotion of them very clearly sends a negative message.

    Lord Asshat and his fellow travellers need to turn their attention to the banning of the motor vehicle.

    I agree with you on the helmets but do you honestly think that motorised vehicles should be banned?

    There are bad drivers everywhere and endemic poor driving within cities, where space is at a premium, but to suggest that motorised transport should be banned is idiocy. The entire country and it's economy would grind to a halt.

    What they should be doing is implementing measures to educate drivers, improve cyclist safety, improve infrastructure and make the bicycle a viable alternative to motorised traffic where possible.

    What I hope they will not be doing is listening to hysterical, extremist comments (such as yours) on either side of the debate.


    To be honest, I cannot see why you think banning private motor vehicles would be 'idiocy'. It would improve most people's quality of life to exercise more, would reduce our dependence on oil, reduce NHS costs, reduce expenditure on road maintenance, reduce the direct death toll...

    But if wanting those things is idiotic, we could at least charge motorists the full cost for their pleasure (http://www.greens-efa.eu/the-true-costs-of-automobility-8787.html).
    That might amount to the same thing.

  • Rapha Sample Sale returns to Manchester at start of February1 year 16 weeks agoQueued for 3 hours this

    Queued for 3 hours this morning to get in. Vey disappointed.
    We were told outside there was plenty of stock in winter gear, pro team etc in all sizes including large
    This was not the case. If you are an extra small or extra large and above and wear team sky kit then there is plenty.
    socks plenty. small leather gloves,plenty.

    Anything else forget it.
    waste of time if you are looking for some decent gear although should have known better as at the end of the day this is a sale and Rapha will be trying to dump their unwanted stock before they release their new summer range.

    cheers

  • Members of the House of Lords question the government on cycle safety and funding1 year 16 weeks agojasecd wrote:Ush wrote:Quote:

    jasecd wrote:
    Ush wrote:
    Quote:
    Lord Popat for the government responded on his earlier point: “We do not want to make cycle helmets compulsory. We would rather encourage and support people to wear helmets for safety.”

    No.

    Bicycle helmets are have not been clearly shown to increase anyone's safety.

    In addition he endless banging on about them, the publicization and promotion of them very clearly sends a negative message.

    Lord Asshat and his fellow travellers need to turn their attention to the banning of the motor vehicle.

    I agree with you on the helmets but do you honestly think that motorised vehicles should be banned?

    There are bad drivers everywhere and endemic poor driving within cities, where space is at a premium, but to suggest that motorised transport should be banned is idiocy. The entire country and it's economy would grind to a halt.

    What they should be doing is implementing measures to educate drivers, improve cyclist safety, improve infrastructure and make the bicycle a viable alternative to motorised traffic where possible.

    What I hope they will not be doing is listening to hysterical, extremist comments (such as yours) on either side of the debate.

    I don't see anything 'hysterical' about it. Extreme, granted. Unrealistic, yup.

    In an ideal world, I'd like to see private motorised transport hugely restricted in urban areas, if not banned entirely. Calling for cars to be banned is a logical response to helmet pushing. The 'if it saves one life' rhetoric would actually be more soundly based with the former than the latter. If people want to use that line of argument they should realise where it logically leads.

    But, obviously, politically it's very unlikely to happen (at least unless the oil runs out, and then we'll have other problems).

    The awkward reality is that the private use of motorised vehicles is hugely subsidised, and hence people's choices are distorted. The trouble is its dammned near impossible to remove subsidies that such a politically powerful group (possibly at this point an actual numerical majority) benefit from.

    But we should certainly work towards reducing car-dependence and making car-users pay the full cost of their habit.

    (The way I see it, the calls for cars to be banned are kind of analogous to the response of feminist groups to patronising calls for women to not go on the streets without a male escort, that certain cops made at the time of the Yorkshire ripper. The feminist response was to demand a curfew for men. Politically 'extreme' yes, but I think it made a valid point.)

    Edit - the use of commercial motorised vehicals, e.g. HGVs, for transporting goods I think is a slightly separate issue. There still seems to be a question why the use of rail has declined so much, but I think its a different question from that of private car use (and taxis - London cabs and all the special priviliges they get are our equivalent of Soviet Zil lanes, special perks for the elites).

  • not another which bike to buy thread...1 year 16 weeks agoThere is a bewildering

    There is a bewildering choice, with a number of new brands launched in the last few years. I wouldn't suggest any one model is 'best', they're all excellent.

    These might help to begin with:
    http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/70802-best-£1000-£1500-road-bikes
    http://road.cc/show/review-section/road-bikes/35
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cycle/road-bikes/

    Online outfits like Ribble and Planet X have great offers but IMHO if you're not sure of what you want you should visit some shops to draw up a shortlist or eliminate models that don't really feel/look right.