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That makes sense cheers

the Planet X carbon with dura ace is looking good for £949

I think as with bike frames, wheels etc, you make some kind of emotional connection with the groupset you decide on, and then try to rationalise it with perceived performance benefits over its competition.

I have ridden both a fair bit, and for me Dura Ace is my favoured option. Campag has all that racing heritage, uses lots of exotic materials and is very pretty. But for me it is clunkier feeling than Dura Ace, and I don't find the brakes as smooth and light feeling. Dura Ace is a good price for the quality of equipment you get, I think you pay a lot for the materials of Campag, which I don't think actually add anything to it's function.

I liked the fact that Shimano held out from using carbon just for the sake of it on things like cranks etc, it's not lighter in most applications and is much more susceptible to damage. It's a shame the new Dura Ace uses carbon brake levers, as this is such an easily damaged item, I've seen so many chips on Campag brake levers, and that would really annoy me.

Shimano have been responsible for so many of the major leaps in groupset efficiency over the years, ie, indexed shifting, external bb's (works on road bikes anyway)etc, and I will continue to use it for years to come

11 speed holds no interest to me, 10 speed is more than enough, and to be honest I was more happy with 9, more robust and less need to be so precise in trim.

In terms of who makes what, it's something like this:

Campag: Super Record, Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce

Shimano: Dura Ace Di2, Dura Ace, Ultegra SL, Ultegra, 105, Tiagra, Sora

SRAM: Red, Force, Rival

In terms of what beats what, it's a very different story. Super Record is surely the wishlist groupset right now - 11 speeds, lovely components. Functionally better than Record though? Certainly you're paying a lot for the Super tag, whichever way you look at it. Di2 is a technical marvel, but a lot of reviews (we haven't had it to test yet) are suggesting that it's been rushed out a bit, and certainly there are some big questions, the biggest being: why isn't it wireless? Mechanical Dura Ace, which we have had to try, is very, very good. Is it better than Record? Take sides now! Is it better than Red? Again, we haven't had a fully Red equipped bike on long term yet but I have ridden it, and it's an excellent system - very intuitive when you get used to it. However, we did speak to one pro using Red who reckons it's a bit of a pain to keep in trim - and they should know, because they put in about 1,000 miles a week...

Further down the ranges Campy and Shimano can fight it out at each price point, and SRAM are a real player too. My personal opinion? Campag's top end kit edges it performance wise, Shimano's middle order groupsets (105, Tiagra) are better value.

Who's going to make the definitive list we can all argue over?

I bought a set recently and used a few times now, including a couple of metric centuries;-)

I like them, easy to fit & remove, light and no punctures. Yet. On best wheels so likely to be put away until summer.

I don't know what that brave lad was doing to the enemy, but he certainly seemed to be killing the performance of this site yesterday

I use the conti GP4000s with black chilli on all my road bikes.

They're light, grippy and roll fast. That's what tyres need to be in my opinion.

Does that mean we're a real grown-up bike forum now? I've been a Hutchinson Fusion 2 kinda guy for quite a while now - the tread profile is good for all round riding and they're pretty puncture resistant for race-oriented rubber. bit heavier than the Contis though. However, the Gipiemme wheels we're currently testing came shod with Schwalbe Ultremos, and I like them a lot - really grippy and supple. And light. Bit early to say what the durability's like, and there's not a lot of tread to measure wear...

is so good lies in the fact that Whittle was lured into the Armstrong lair (as an example) and then saw it for what it was...

Fair point

It really is the best site I know of for creating courses.

You can upload directly to the Edge from BRT using the Garmin plugin, and it will save either ,tcx or .gpx's to the correct location.

After a lot of playing about with the various setting options on BRT, I have had very good results with .gpx with full turn notifications on the 705, even despite it's desire to recalculate if you go off course. Once you've got the hang of it, that doesn't cause any real issues.

Apparently Tracklogs latest beta release will communicate directly with the edge 705, but I've tried it on 3 seperate installs and none of them can detect the 705 when connected.

To be honest I don't use Tracklogs anymore since finding BRT as it does all I need, and interfaces with the 705 easily.

 You'd need afternoon shinyness around here today the weather is so completely cack!

 I thought it was a  better read than Breaking the Chain and possibly more powerful than Walsh's in that Jeremy started out as someone who wanted to believe and found he simply couldn't. I don't think Walsh ever  believed…