• 3T Tornova Team Carbon handlebar1 year 4 weeks agoGreat that there's now a good

    Great that there's now a good review of these bars, I've been considering them for a while - in Pro version, rather than the vastly more expensive Team/Ltd versions.

  • Giro Rider Roster (The previously hijacked Giro D'Italia thread)1 year 4 weeks agoNoughties, not nineties.

    Noughties, not nineties. 2000s

    He won races when everyone was doped up to the gills. And he was linked to Michele.

    Anyway, aside from that I'm still pretty sure that there is plenty of stuff still going on in the peloton, just to a lesser degree. The passport and today's testing procedures still allow much room for abuse.

  • Tour de France Grand Depart hosts slammed for "outrageous" team presentation ticket prices1 year 4 weeks agoWas going to book, no sign of

    Was going to book, no sign of the £45 tickets but the £55 soon turned into £64 after booking fees and postage was added. Not for me thanks, I will let the southern Mamils pay it.

  • Tour de France Grand Depart hosts slammed for "outrageous" team presentation ticket prices1 year 4 weeks agoJust what is it that gives me

    Just what is it that gives me a bad feeling about the whole event.
    I am sure much of it will be great but I have horrible worries about the handling of it all.
    I predict a complete underestimation of the crowds involved and consequently much bad feeling from those who wish to spectate and find that un publicised and/or unpredictable restrictions will inhibit such a thing.
    Bet you a quid that a car gets onto the route after the roads are closed.
    I do hope that everything goes well but something deep down just doesn't give me a feeling of confidence.
    I intend to go up to watch but I currently have no faith in the info pushed out by the organisers. As yet I cannot find every last road closure time, restriction on parking and access and anything else that may help or hinder me. I Shall be honest and say that it bloody well should be stitched up by now. f anyone would care to help me and provide me with links to such information I shall be very grateful.
    Here's hoping!

  • Mark Cavendish says aero bikes and helmets have reduced his edge over rivals1 year 4 weeks agoCan see the benefits of aero

    Can see the benefits of aero kit in TT scenario but really, in the madness of a bunch sprint won't the surrounding air be rather turbulent anyway? Be that as it may, last year felt like a real changing of the guard, obviously Froome was Sky's priority but even on the Champs it looked like time was starting to catch up with Cav. With a better lead-out train at OPQS he will still win his fair share of stages but Kittel is clearly the coming man.

  • I may have found a good reason for a bike helmet!1 year 4 weeks agoPaul J wrote:fukawitribe:

    Paul J wrote:
    fukawitribe: It's not fallacious. I'm taking the precise logic that commentators have used ("your life was just saved by a helmet, and you're still saying they're a daft idea?", "it's better than nothing", "without a helmet you'd almost certainly have [medical details]. … I'd be shopping for a replacement lid.", etc., etc.) and am simply applying it in another context, where the only difference is "pedestrian" instead of "cyclist". If it is fallacious to draw the same conclusion, then *bingo* - you've got the point!

    ..but I don't agree with the over extension of their claims either, I never said I did. That the helmet may have made a difference here, I think is not unreasonable here assuming the damage on the helmet was all caused by the strike, i.e. energy was adsorbed by the helmet. It was that over-extension that I objected to, the presumption that the one anecdote would prove the rule, that fallacy - perhaps I should have equally gone after those over-eager to promote the miracles of helmets.. but that jobs seemed to have been done already in this case.

    Paul J wrote:
    The question then is *why* is it fallacious? The only possibilities are that there is some significant difference between "pedestrian" and "cyclist" that makes it an error to swap one for the other, or otherwise that the logic is simply inherently flawed. If the logic is flawed, then it must be flawed for *both* cyclist and pedestrian!

    Firstly, the fallacy i'm alluding to is the extrapolation from one incident, even given the injury rates of each group - a cyclist is hit with a wing mirror, a pedestrian is hit with a wing mirror therefore the risk of being hit by a wing mirror is the same or similar in both groups (and hence, the group supporting helmet wearing should argue for both). If the risk were not similar, you could not reasonably expect the group to make a similar risk assessment and e.g. argue for helmets in both cases.

    I'm was also maintaining there is a significant difference the cyclist and the pedestrian. My logic was along the lines of - consider the environment in which they are normally to be found, viz the road vs the pavement, consider the average speed of both, the nearness of other vehicles travelling at speed close to them, even the average height of the head above the ground. What I am *guessing* is that the chance of head injury, in particular caused by a wing mirror, is higher, and of a more profound effect, in one environment than the other. That may not actually be as realistic as I thought in general, more on that later...

    Paul J wrote:
    You say the error is that the cyclist, in the specific case of wing mirror strikes, is more exposed to this risk than a pedestrian. Though, I don't know how we could evaluate this as I doubt statistics are kept on the numbers of pedestrians and cyclists hit by wing mirrors.

    True, but unfortunately incredibly relevant as that is the only thing I was really objecting to. My supposition was based in part on the relative number of wing mirrors that might be found on the pavement and on the road, and an estimate of their average velocity relative to cyclist and pedestrian and an estimate of the proportion of pedestrians within a wing mirrors distance from the edge of the road.... i'm sure you can see where I was going with that (even though completely unproven, statistically)

    Paul J wrote:
    Statistics are available for head injuries admissions though and, AFAIK, though there are some small differences, there isn't a large difference in risk of head injury overall between the two groups[1].

    That's very interesting, as are the conclusions, thank you for the link. What I can't find there, however, is the incident rate (e.g. head injury per group per mile or journey) which is directly related to my point about proportional risk (what risk per mile / journey of the injury) - that's what i'm looking at now. The conclusion was also a tad over-reaching for my liking, at least without further qualification, but pertinent to the wider debate perhaps..

    Assuming that the difference between cyclists and pedestrians (3.6%) is attributable to helmet wearing, and with helmet wearing having increased by 5.8%, we estimate that helmets prevent 60% (3.6/5.8) of serious head injuries. An estimated efficacy of 60% is very consistent with that of 63%–88% obtained from case-control studies of cycle helmet efficacy. As evidence continues to mount, and consistency emerges between different study designs, the position of the sceptics becomes increasingly untenable.

    That said, I had no idea that the rate of pedestrian head injury was so high, so learnt something there, tah.

    Paul J wrote:
    Increased use of helmets may have lead to a small decrease in rates in cyclists though, however the decreases in head injury tend to be accompanied by increases in other injuries[2]. It is not clear that helmets actually make cycling safer, indeed there is evidence the reverse may be true - KSI rates have not decreased amongst cyclists in the UK appreciably, and KSI rates in AU and NZ increased after helmet laws. All these high-helmet-use countries have significantly worse safety than low-helmet-use/high-cycling-rate countries like NL.

    Agreed.

    Paul J wrote:
    So here's the fallacy: If you argue that helmets make a difference to head injuries, and "every little helps", then, presuming you accept the evidence that pedestrians face quite similar risks, you *must* also argue that pedestrians should wear them.

    As above, I don't agree the risks are similar, so I would maintain it is not a fallacy. I'm open to persuasion though, which is why i'm looking more closely at the figures following your comments.

    Paul J wrote:
    I just don't understand people who try claim that "every little helps" and hence cyclists - and *ONLY CYCLISTS* - should wear helmets when on the road. I'd love to hear them explain their logic, or show *evidence* as to how the general cyclist faces different risks to pedestrians to justify the different safety approach (and merely speculating that cyclists might face some risk that pedestrians doesn't cut it, given we have actual statistics).

    Fair point, although personally i've not - and never had - argued for helmets for cyclists. I am guilty of not checking the statistics closely enough however.

    Paul J wrote:
    Otherwise, it just seems hypocritical and perhaps part of the UK's "single out the cyclist" culture (usually for hate) that's so ingrained, even the cyclists themselves propagate it! Even if that is unintentional on the part of the commentator here, and they are well-meaning. Perhaps it's some kind of Stockholm Syndrome?

    Smile

  • Giro Rider Roster (The previously hijacked Giro D'Italia thread)1 year 4 weeks agoJoelsim wrote:Evans won't

    Joelsim wrote:
    Evans won't last 3 weeks.

    Unless he imports more energy from the devil.

    And I'm not sure that he is a clean rider either, I'm pretty sure he wasn't in the noughties.


    DUDE, Cadel wasn't even a tour rider in 90.s he was a mtn rider, he transferred across to Seaco in 2001 with a 5 year plan to win TDF and worked, I always thought cadel was clean cause he has those odd VERY BAD days, never see Lance etc have those real bad days....

  • Giro Rider Roster (The previously hijacked Giro D'Italia thread)1 year 4 weeks agoEvans won't last 3

    Evans won't last 3 weeks.

    Unless he imports more energy from the devil.

    And I'm not sure that he is a clean rider either, I'm pretty sure he wasn't in the noughties.

  • Tour de France Grand Depart hosts slammed for "outrageous" team presentation ticket prices1 year 4 weeks agoYou are lucky Otis, I spent 2

    You are lucky Otis, I spent 2 hours 55 minutes just to get the sold out screen. Still well done to Belfast for offering the tickets for free

  • Giro Rider Roster (The previously hijacked Giro D'Italia thread)1 year 4 weeks agonorthstar wrote:I don't blame

    northstar wrote:
    I don't blame him or anyone for doing it, i guess they are just riding how they want too, he won the tdf so who am I to knock him.

    He brings a lot of personality to the pro riding world.

    Watching contador / schleck / quintana is far more "entertaining" however.


    By that standard that makes Tommy Voecklar the most exciting rider on the planet, even if those results that year of his seem very suss!

  • Giro-del Trentino Stage 31 year 4 weeks agojohnny2names wrote:Joelsim

    johnny2names wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    VVV73 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    johnny2names wrote:
    cadel wins... looking good for the Giro! that will make Joelsim happy....

    Urgh.

    If he wins the Giro, I'll...I'll...I'll...


    You will what, threaten to ban him, not going to select him, bag the arse out of him, THEN SELECT HIM VERY NEXT DAY....A man of strong convictions hey ....LOL

    Absolutely. But there are points at stake!

    I agree, one's own standpoint must step aside when roadcc points are at stake Smile

    I've just had to go and do some each way on cadel on skybet at 16:1 for the giro, to rub salt into your wounds Joel...

    I've got some EW on Arredondo at 150/1

  • Giro Rider Roster (The previously hijacked Giro D'Italia thread)1 year 4 weeks agoarsene wrote:Contador crushed

    arsene wrote:
    Contador crushed Valverde at País Vasco...

    BTW have a look at the support teams for that tour....best valve had was 35yo Gadret..lol
    Conta had Romain Kreuziger, AND was only 12 secs between then till Last stage ITT...
    I certainly wouldn't say he crushed him, considering valve beat conta home on Stage 5, stage 4, conta beat valve by one spot stage 3, Valve again beats him home stage 2...... ALL TIME TRIAL mate!
    that means Cadel must have CRUSHED the schlecks in TDF that year lol

  • Rider Names - Giro1 year 4 weeks agoI can't find the Belkin rider

    I can't find the Belkin rider Martijn Keizer in the game... I have him in a list like he was in the game before, but he appears in the list I had downloaded as 'no trade team'

  • I may have found a good reason for a bike helmet!1 year 4 weeks agoa.jumper wrote:Paul J

    a.jumper wrote:
    Paul J wrote:
    You say the error is that the cyclist, in the specific case of wing mirror strikes, is more exposed to this risk than a pedestrian. Though, I don't know how we could evaluate this as I doubt statistics are kept on the numbers of pedestrians and cyclists hit by wing mirrors.

    Not definitive, but when I'm a pedestrian, I get more wing mirrors passing me than when I'm on a bike, plus the mirrors pass at greater relative speed. This is obvious because I'm moving about 10mph faster when riding.

    Do you walk in the road a lot then? Because when i am a pedestrian there are lots more wingmorrors passing me, but they are generally MUCH further away. So far away in fact that its a non issue 99.95%* of the time. Its only when i am waiting to cross the road that they are awaywhere near me, and even then unless I'm stood right on the edge of the curb they are still an additional 18 to 24+ inches further away than they would be on the bike.

    Re helmets, if you want to wear one do, applying the same logic to pedestrians and cyclists is, in my opinion, stretching the logic used to an absurd point. But i guess thats the intention. Make a decision based on the risk you percieve, your acceptance of that risk and the knowledge that a helmet is likely to lessen the severity of any impact to your head, how much difference that will make is again up to you to decide.

    *yes this is just an arbitrary figure pulled from the air - so far i have never had this be an issue but i allowed the 0.05% on the basis that it might happen one day, maybe.

  • Tour de France Grand Depart hosts slammed for "outrageous" team presentation ticket prices1 year 4 weeks agoJust checked the seating out

    Just checked the seating out and without paying £73 the seats are pretty crap tbh

  • Tour de France Grand Depart hosts slammed for "outrageous" team presentation ticket prices1 year 4 weeks agoGizmo_ wrote:if the place

    Gizmo_ wrote:
    if the place ends up sold out then they've got the prices right, whether you like it or not.
    If you think the only metric of success is maximised profits, they ought to price the tickets so as to have the venue only 90% full, give or take. A sell-out implies they could have charged more.

    Anyway, they want an opening celebration rather than a trad team presentation - the idea is probably part of what won the bid, so good luck etc.

    They still do a good free team presentation on the Champs Elysée after the day's racing. Always a nice day, sunny too normally.

  • Mark Cavendish says aero bikes and helmets have reduced his edge over rivals1 year 4 weeks agoOVER analysis by everyone.

    OVER analysis by everyone. just give er dixey with 250 to go

  • Giro Rider Roster (The previously hijacked Giro D'Italia thread)1 year 4 weeks agoarsene wrote:Contador crushed

    arsene wrote:
    Contador crushed Valverde at País Vasco...

    Ok lets compare all of years race results....See who raced the most and best Wink I don't even Like either of them personally, I just think Valverde has been the stand out, and Gilbert and Cancelarra(knew fab would bounce back this year better then ever.. NEW DAD)

  • Team Sky announces Giro line-up, GB's Swift & Kennaugh join Ireland's Deignan for Belfast start1 year 4 weeks agostumps wrote:Good team

    stumps wrote:
    Good team designed for stage wins rather than GC which should make the whole tour easier for them.

    Very true.

  • Giro Rider Roster (The previously hijacked Giro D'Italia thread)1 year 4 weeks agoUran is in Colombia too and

    Uran is in Colombia too and will ride Romandie.

  • Giro Rider Roster (The previously hijacked Giro D'Italia thread)1 year 4 weeks agoConcerning the Giro, Evans

    Concerning the Giro, Evans seems to be in great shape...
    Purito crashed in both Ardennes races and Quintana is training at home.

  • Giro Rider Roster (The previously hijacked Giro D'Italia thread)1 year 4 weeks agoContador crushed Valverde at

    Contador crushed Valverde at País Vasco...

  • Giro-del Trentino Stage 31 year 4 weeks agojohnny2names wrote:Joelsim

    johnny2names wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    VVV73 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    johnny2names wrote:
    cadel wins... looking good for the Giro! that will make Joelsim happy....

    Urgh.

    If he wins the Giro, I'll...I'll...I'll...


    You will what, threaten to ban him, not going to select him, bag the arse out of him, THEN SELECT HIM VERY NEXT DAY....A man of strong convictions hey ....LOL

    Absolutely. But there are points at stake!

    I agree, one's own standpoint must step aside when roadcc points are at stake Smile

    I've just had to go and do some each way on cadel on skybet at 16:1 for the giro, to rub salt into your wounds Joel...


    When I BFL(Banned For Life) a rider, they stay that way ...I have a Cpl on that list...head of the list was the late Dennis Menchov! Never ever again I swore.

  • Giro-del Trentino Stage 31 year 4 weeks agoJoelsim wrote:VVV73

    Joelsim wrote:
    VVV73 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    johnny2names wrote:
    cadel wins... looking good for the Giro! that will make Joelsim happy....

    Urgh.

    If he wins the Giro, I'll...I'll...I'll...


    You will what, threaten to ban him, not going to select him, bag the arse out of him, THEN SELECT HIM VERY NEXT DAY....A man of strong convictions hey ....LOL

    Absolutely. But there are points at stake!

    I agree, one's own standpoint must step aside when roadcc points are at stake Smile

    I've just had to go and do some each way on cadel on skybet at 16:1 for the giro, to rub salt into your wounds Joel...

  • Giro-del Trentino Stage 31 year 4 weeks agooh dear, no scarponi or

    oh dear, no scarponi or bongiorno for me, which means adioso to my score! didnt see landa coming either- where did niemec end?!?